Reposted from the "New Forum Rules" Thread....Conspiracy?!

Birdsnest said:
Just curios but in your first post you were really mean....why the change of tone?
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For me it is fustration, exhaustion and lack of any further patience with lobbiests and their associated corrupted politicians that have and are imposing their selfish needs over the rest of society and our collective futures that drives me insane. When you involve yourself personally in these issues - you get to see how bad it really is.

Whether it is wild fish, big oil and pipelines, fish farm promotion, or our health system - you get to see how broken it really is.

Broken because of the stock market and corrupt because of the breaking of our democratic system. Our forefathers gave their lives to defend democracy. They gave up their chance to be alive on this planet for our chance to make it better.

Harper and his cronnies takes it away thereby pissing on the graves of our forgotten heros.

What will our children say bout our time on this planet? What are we leaving future generations? Why are we here alive for a short time on this rock hurling through the empty vastness of space? Are we alive for the stock market - which is unsustainable and already failed numerous times?

There is no time left for stalling and lying. Our resources are already stretched too thin. We need utter honesty, inclusion and transparency in how we run things. There is no more patience in me to put up with continuing government and corporate collusion and corruption.

If that is perceived as being "mean" - then good. The message is being heard. Sometimes those with less political experience and fustration receive it thus.

Any comments I made/make about lobbiests are not targetted at you directly.

I understand the science and enjoy it - so once off the political rant - I can bury myself into what I enjoy. Hence the difference in tone.
 
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Not knocking what you've said but here's something to consider - emptying your tank on the Sportfishing BC forum isn't going to advance your agenda.
 
What makes you think that I am so different from you that you should post to me that way?

If that is perceived as being "mean" - then good. The message is being heard.
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I don't agree. The message that is being heard is one from an individual who presents symptoms of an unchecked emotional reaction that is portrayed as anger and hate. This is ok but it does not represent control of ones emotions and reactions. This just takes away from the content of any statement. IMO. I know some will disagree and will stick with angry birds on this one.

Anyway, I'm getting lost here. Whats this thread even about?
 
steel_dreamin said:
Not knocking what you've said but here's something to consider - emptying your tank on the Sportfishing BC forum isn't going to advance your agenda.
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You're absolutely right - but if I answer with well thought out responses and references - maybe that helps others educate themselves on a topic - for an agenda we can all agree on - that we love fish and want our kids to have the opportunty to enjoy some of the same things in live that we have.
 
Birdsnest said:
1. old news. All the topics in the video have been discussed extensively on fishing forums before in the past year and longer. That is what I meant. Not of it was new information or ideas. It was just a creative recap of what they have been working on for a couple of years.

As for the rest of your post. Leave it with me for a bit and I will go back through it and make certain I am clear about it. I would never say ignore viruses and I fully support further research into our pacific situation, absolutely. is not true that Morton is saying PRV Causes HSMI because it seems that you are stating it differently?
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I dunno - thought the video wrapped the CFIA/Cohen/virus topic up nicely.

To be clear - I am stating that PRV likely causes HMSI. Farm stock often have PRV. PRV expressed as HMSI is a potential population-level impact on wild stocks.
 
Birdsnest said:
What makes you think that I am so different from you that you should post to me that way?

I don't agree. The message that is being heard is one from an individual who presents symptoms of an unchecked emotional reaction that is portrayed as anger and hate. This is ok but it does not represent control of ones emotions and reactions. This just takes away from the content of any statement. IMO. I know some will disagree and will stick with angry birds on this one.

Anyway, I'm getting lost here. Whats this thread even about?
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fish are an emotional issue for everyone here. So is our future. For me, I've had enough lies from government officials and industry shrills. I'm not apologizing for my emotions. I'm not asking you to take on my emotions. You are in charge of your emotions - not I. I see no need to hide my emotions either - it's called being secure in your emotional frame of mind. I can still communicate with and hear your side of things even though I may disagree on some points. Where I grew-up people weren't so meek and afraid of strong emotions. It was part of the culture. I am being honest and open with you. How you perceive that is up to you.

Ya - the forum is called Sportsfishing - the thread - consiracy, in the conservation/politics section. Prob good spot to call a spade a spade in politics...
 
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Ya - the forum is called Sportsfishig -
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I see you wish to assume I am totally lost. I assure you I am not.
 
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It must be frustrating for the guys that are posting fact after fact, science etc. just to have BN respond with no, I still don't believe it.
It would be comparable to the automakers claiming that Diesel engines and gasoline engines in their cars don't pollute our air. Then arguing those points to death, but never really providing any real hard facts, other than studies that they paid for.
The point is, you are paid to be here, so even if you do believe that farmed salmon should be in closed containment, you are paid to argue the other side. So on and on we go.......

Any reasonably informed person would come to the same realization that farmed salmon spread disease and they should not be on migratory routes. Even better yet, belong in closed containment .
 
Closed containment of salmon is slowly withering away as an idea. Salmon farmers have been saying so for a long time but no we had to spend a shwack of tax dollars on it and the spending continues. Even the model sweet spring has pulled the pin on production.

http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=98189

Time to give the closed containment a rest. But we ll give it one more shot up island and see if it will work but its not looking good.
 
Birdsnest said:
Ya its self induced, around here anyways. I am just trying to be open about my perspective. I find it unfortunate that the moderators support the aggressive bashing. It just represents sport fishing poorly in a public place although at the end of the day its private so it is what it is. I like the site and benefit from it and try to contribute but I am a fish farmer that fishes and has been fishing since long before I was a farmer, nothing can change that.
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We are perfectly comfortable with Fish Farm bashing as this form is clearly aligned with the Recreational Fishing component of the people.. Personal attacks and insults will not be tolerated...

That's about as good as we can get it here.

I admit I was skeptical until I saw the video indicating that the same virus from Norway was found in BC Wild fish.. That indicates to me a very serious problem. I was unable to bring a bundle of dry firewood across the border crossing at Sumas.. Cut from the same trees probably 5 miles south of the border (Had it left in my truck from my honeymoon)..

If there is even a chance that we are introducing a foreign body of any sort into our fishery I think it should be brakes on and independent credible research. Watching DFO gag biologists is enough for me. The best way to exonerate ones self is through transparancy.. Give Alex a whole mort tote.. Hell, she'd probably pay for it. No virus, no problem.. All virus, big problem...

The genetic markers of the Norway virus in our wild fish is a big flashing warning sign.. Think Mitten Crab, Gypsy Moth, Scotch Broom, and Pokemon....
 
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Why are we testing the wild salmon only? How can an industry like fish farming even get started without rigorous testing to be sure that they are not contaminating the ocean in any way shape or form? The Ocean and all of its marine mammals, birds, and wild fish were there first. The fish farms came second so why are they not responsible for funding a Lab on the west coast to prove that they are not disturbing wild salmon or the natural environment that they inhabit. You would think it was in their best interest to be transparent if they had nothing to hide. Bottom line is that corporate profits have a louder voice as that wealth is concentrated into a few peoples hands.
 
fortyfour said:
Why are we testing the wild salmon only? How can an industry like fish farming even get started without rigorous testing to be sure that they are not contaminating the ocean in any way shape or form? The Ocean and all of its marine mammals, birds, and wild fish were there first. The fish farms came second so why are they not responsible for funding a Lab on the west coast to prove that they are not disturbing wild salmon or the natural environment that they inhabit. You would think it was in their best interest to be transparent if they had nothing to hide. Bottom line is that corporate profits have a louder voice as that wealth is concentrated into a few peoples hands.
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because the fish farm industry does not want it. Gary Marty - the Provincial fish vet - is suppossed to be our first official governmental line of defense. He hides his fish health records from the public because the fish farming companies claim "intellectual property rights" and threaten they won't co-operate with inspectors if this information is made public. Their lawyers have written and successfully opposed FOI requests over this exact matter. Marty's job would not exist if there were no farm industry.The BC Salmon Farmer's Assn and participating fish farm companies contribute to various party and individual election funds (e.g MARINE HARVEST CANADA INC gave the BC LIBERAL PARTY $10,000.00 on 2010/09/02). Recently, they have now started funding the BC NDP also. Maybe they are now hedging their bets on a NDP landslide next May. What they contribute outside of election time to decison makers and ministers is unknown. The Schriber affair was only remarkable because someone got caught doing it. The BC govt gives fines back to those same companies. DFO - our new fish farm regulator - also simultaneously promotes fish farms. It's a pretty cozy relationship with government all the way around.Too cozy.
 
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Birdsnest said:
Closed containment of salmon is slowly withering away as an idea. Salmon farmers have been saying so for a long time but no we had to spend a shwack of tax dollars on it and the spending continues. Even the model sweet spring has pulled the pin

Well, if closed containment doesn't work, then that should be it for salmon farming. It doesn't work in net pens either!
I'm a believer that if we spent the money on habitat restoration, creek and river restoration, and left the herring alone for a while, we would have more than enough salmon. Given a half a chance, the fish would come back.
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agentaqua said:
fish are an emotional issue for everyone here. So is our future. For me, I've had enough lies from government officials and industry shrills. I'm not apologizing for my emotions. I'm not asking you to take on my emotions. You are in charge of your emotions - not I. I see no need to hide my emotions either - it's called being secure in your emotional frame of mind. I can still communicate with and hear your side of things even though I may disagree on some points. Where I grew-up people weren't so meek and afraid of strong emotions. It was part of the culture. I am being honest and open with you. How you perceive that is up to you.
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This sum's it up for me too... thanks for putting in words something I have difficulty expressing.

agentaqua said:
Ya - the forum is called Sportsfishing - the thread - consiracy, in the conservation/politics section. Prob good spot to call a spade a spade in politics...
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Interesting development in the last few days over in the Canadian Senate. Mind you they are as slow as molasses when it comes to getting anything done. I'll be sending some letters to the Senators to get there comments on the new film...

[h=2]Fisheries and Oceans[/h]
[h=3]Committee Authorized to Study the Regulation of Aquaculture and Future Prospects for the Industry[/h]​
Hon. Fabian Manning, pursuant to notice of February 27, 2013, moved:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans be authorized to examine and report on the regulation of aquaculture in Canada and future prospects for the industry; and

That the committee report from time to time to the Senate but no later than June 30, 2014, and that the committee retain all powers necessary to publicize its findings until October 31, 2014.

​
The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
(Motion agreed to.)
(The Senate adjourned until Wednesday, March 6, 2013, at 1:30 p.m.)
Link below.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/Sen/Chamber/411/Debates/142db_2013-03-05-e.htm#57

Now I don't think the Honorable Fabian Manning is any friend of the Liberals or the NDP but one can only hope that with enough debate and press coverage we might get results.
GLG
 
Obviously connected to you. Probably another lobbyist.
I'm done on this thread, and going around in circles with you. I don't get paid to type BS here, so I'll spend my free time elsewhere.
 
agentaqua said:
You're absolutely right - but if I answer with well thought out responses and references - maybe that helps others educate themselves on a topic - for an agenda we can all agree on - that we love fish and want our kids to have the opportunty to enjoy some of the same things in live that we have.
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Agent Aqua you have put up some great posts, including a detailed analysis of the thread quoted by Birdsnest and the papers referenced therein.

However, many have tried to educate Birdsnest on this forum. Seadna, Charlie, and myself among them. Take a look at past threads on the salmon feed lot issues. The evidence for what follows is all there.

He (Birdnest) CANNOT be convinced by rational argument, debate or science. I remember a "debate", if one may loosely call it that, between Seadna and Birdnest about a sea lice paper that Morton and several other scientists had co-authored. It clearly showed a serious impact on the pink runs of Broughton. Birdnest just dismissed it as "gibberish" and then slandered Morton and by implication her co-workers and the entire National Academy of Sciences under whose auspices the paper was published.

Birdnest is exactly like a fundamentalist Christian in that it doesn’t matter how much evidence you put forward for evolution, it is all ignored in favour of “The Holy Word”. You cannot change the mind of anyone, with any amount of evidence, if it contradicts their “World View”. Birdsnest’s world view is that salmon feed lots are not harmful, probably because his livelihood depends on it, and he cannot be shaken in that belief. To him it is all a “Test of Faith”.

But good for you challenging him anyway. I keep doing it too, because we cannot allow the forces of ignorance, superstition and darkness to go unchallenged and unanswered on this forum.
 
Englishman said:
Agent Aqua you have put up some great posts, including a detailed analysis of the thread quoted by Birdsnest and the papers referenced therein.

However, many have tried to educate Birdsnest on this forum. Seadna, Charlie, and myself among them. Take a look at past threads on the salmon feed lot issues. The evidence for what follows is all there.


He (Birdnest) CANNOT be convinced by rational argument, debate or science. I remember a "debate", if one may loosely call it that, between Seadna and Birdnest about a sea lice paper that Morton and several other scientists had co-authored. It clearly showed a serious impact on the pink runs of Broughton. Birdnest just dismissed it as "gibberish" and then slandered Morton and by implication her co-workers and the entire National Academy of Sciences under whose auspices the paper was published.

Birdnest is exactly like a fundamentalist Christian in that it doesn’t matter how much evidence you put forward for evolution, it is all ignored in favour of “The Holy Word”. You cannot change the mind of anyone, with any amount of evidence, if it contradicts their “World View”. Birdsnest’s world view is that salmon feed lots are not harmful, probably because his livelihood depends on it, and he cannot be shaken in that belief. To him it is all a “Test of Faith”.

But good for you challenging him anyway. I keep doing it too, because we cannot allow the forces of ignorance, superstition and darkness to go unchallenged and unanswered on this forum.
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Bingo! I couldn't have said it any better myself....Thanks Englishman!
 
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