Bottom bouncing techniques?
- Thread starter Pursuit
- Start date
Dogbreath
Well-Known Member
Go Slow and Pay Attention.
Smooth bare rock is fine Tunstall Bay on Bowen Island is a classic exampleI would guess you start by finding a spot with sandy bottombut the idea of getting hung up gives me the jeebies
It often attracts them because it causes a commotion scattering bait.
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
I add 12 inches of line to my weight and use short (12-16 inch) leaders to keep the hooks off the bottom. If there is swell or chop to jig the line for you, Great. Set it up so it is just hitting the bottom 6 to 20 times a minute without pulling slack in your line. Leave them in the rod holders and watch. Best case scenario on a bite, the rod points to the bottom an the hooks are set for you however this usually does not happen because the fish is right on the bottom. Other wise I do not set the hooks when I have a bite. I leave the rod in the holder and reel down hard on that fish till the rod is bent down and tight to fish, then gently take the rod out of the holder and give it a couple of hook sets.
Remember that when these fish take they have no where to go to pull on the line so the critical part of setting the hook/s is quit different from most types of fishing. A common mistake IMO is seeing the bite and immediately grabbing the rod out of the holder and then attempting a hook set. I see a bite, I don't wait, I start reeling down hard on that fish with the rod in the holder and don't take the rod out utill that rod tip is in the water pointing straight down. 2 cents.
Remember that when these fish take they have no where to go to pull on the line so the critical part of setting the hook/s is quit different from most types of fishing. A common mistake IMO is seeing the bite and immediately grabbing the rod out of the holder and then attempting a hook set. I see a bite, I don't wait, I start reeling down hard on that fish with the rod in the holder and don't take the rod out utill that rod tip is in the water pointing straight down. 2 cents.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Was thinking about bottom bouncing to go after some flounder around the north arm flats. Was thinking about using a spreader bar and a weight so I don't have to use the rigger. Have u guys ever tested a setup like that?
Cuba Libre
Well-Known Member
I always found that bouncing my balls was a bit painful! ( ya-- I know---- grade 5 comment !!! LOL!)
( ya-- I know---- grade 5 comment !!! LOL!)
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that would work fine if you're going slow. Are you talking about trolling it, or just drifting with bait. If you want to avoid doggies you could put a metal dodger 4 feet behind the spreader and slowly troll a pink mini hoochy behind it. The flatties always seem to like the pink minies when I get close to bottom there. You never know you might even luck into a nice spring doing that.
In the old days before riggers it was common for guys to troll the flats with a three way swivel and a short dropper line to the weight. That kept the gear just off bottom. Very similar idea to what you are talking about. Long gone out of style, but that's how they caught the biggies hanging at the edges of the flats way back when.
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This sounds pretty much like a tidal Fraser bar fishing setup. What type of weight do you usually use with the trolling technique? Are you finding a favorite tide that this would work better?
Kildonan
Well-Known Member
I fish a muddy bottom for winter springs. I let the rigger out till it touches bottom, raise it 5 feet off the bottom, follow the same depth contour on your chart plotter, fill your cooler with fish (if the fish are there). Easy peasey.
I don't like scraping bottom, you never know what you'll hang up on.
I don't like scraping bottom, you never know what you'll hang up on.
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
In the old days it was common to use a pound of weight or more when trolling there. This is not "my" method this type of rigging was common before the 197o's.
Kildonon is right the bottom off the north arm is lttered with junk. I gave up bottom bouncing there after too many nasty hook ups on bottom. It works great but I go fishing to relax not wrestle with 75 lb abandoned commercial traps made from rebar. Keep the rigger balls a bit off bottom there unless you are dragging cement weights and don't care if you lose them.
Pursuit --- The techniques we use for Bottom Bouncing or as we call it “dragging gravel”.
The Do’s
As others have indicated with the cost of today’s gear, lead, cable and terminal tackle - location location location. I like a flatish bottom of gravel, sand or mud; free of obstructions that I have looked over previously with the sounder and am very familiar with.
Set a slow to moderate trolling speed over the bottom. Generally when dragging gravel we like to go into the current as you are a little less likely to get into trouble, (hung up), with your ball on the bottom as things will happen a little slower and you can often use the current and a fast turn to allow the current to push your boat backwards to take the forward pulling pressure off the trapped ball which sometimes helps release the ball. You also want your rigger drag set correctly so it will play out slowly on hook up and not instantly break the cable. That slow speed may also make it easier for halibut to hook up.
Drop the ball till it hits the bottom and drop it slower when you are close to the bottom. Once you hit bottom, bring it up a couple of feet and wait a short time for the blow back to raise you ball further up off the bottom. Then drop it again to you hit the bottom and bring it up a couple of feet. If you are using a flasher you will want it about 4 feet off the bottom so your flasher does not slam into the bottom as it turns in a rather large circle. With a dodger you can stay closer to the bottom as they sway back and forth rather than spin in a big circle. I sometimes like using a whole herring by itself.
Our boat is set up particularly well for bottom bouncing when we are not fishing at great depth in the summer. The transducer is way out the back on one side of the pod and the riggers are farther forward on the boat than most people have them mounted. In addition we use a 20lb ball and as stated we are going slow, so unless the current is ripping there is not much blow back and the 20 lb ball will stay under the boat/transducer where it leaves a trail on the sounder. This means you know exactly how close to the bottom the ball is and you can adjust your depth when you are getting close without having to wait till the rigger starts jumping to tell you to raise the ball. This seems to work better than trying to match the counter depth to the sounder depth. Don’t always stay right on the bottom, try different distances off the bottom. For large summer Chinook I like 4 to 20 feet off the bottom. For winter feeders that are on needle fish rather than herring, you can try close to the bottom but move up and down if you are not getting hits and for Halibut just off the bottom.
If the conditions are good for it and big springs are around we have sometimes stacked a second rod 20 feet up which has paid off for us at times.
If the ball is right on the bottom it will sometimes triggers a strike if you pull the ball up about 5 or ten feet once in a while for a short time and then drop it back down. My theory is that for salmon you don’t always want it touching the bottom because it may be easier for salmon to see up if they are on the bottom and not actively feeding. My theory is salmon don’t/can’t look down as much as they look up.
A couple of things not to do:
Do use a metal terminal tackle clip that holds the ball that is the type that takes a lot of finger pressure to push in and release the ball. Do not use the quick on, quick release type terminal clips like the plastic Scotty type, especially if they are worn out and the little plastic bit that is supposed to keep the ball on is bent in a little/lost its spring, so that it is slightly open. I stopped using the plastic type when fishing on the bottom because sometimes the ball will slide right off when dragging gravel - have had it happen.
When dropping the ball and especially if you are not going real deep, don’t let the ball hit the bottom really fast/hard because on rare occasion this can cause the cable to go slack and have a little backlash which can cause the cable to jump off the rigger drum and jam itself into the rigger shaft area which is a real PITA as you cannot bring up the ball and you usually will have to take the rigger apart. If this ever happens to you, turn the boat into deeper water, lift the ball a little with gloves to take the pressure off the drum and then put a smooth clamp (you don’t want to damage/cut the cable) on the cable to hold the ball. With the cable not putting pressure on the drum you can take the rigger apart, free the cable, get it back on the rigger drum and pull up the ball.
A friend of mine made an emergency clamp out of two small pieces of flat soft wood and bolts with wing nuts for this purpose which holds by pressure against one of several things on the rigger boom. I think vice grips and a couple of small smooth flat pieces of wood rounded on the edges could also work but would be harder to use without dropping something in the drink.
PS re: your concern that stirring up the bottom will spook fish, my theory is that it may actually attract fish – salmon/halibut as it may simulate fish stirring up the bottom feeding.
The Do’s
As others have indicated with the cost of today’s gear, lead, cable and terminal tackle - location location location. I like a flatish bottom of gravel, sand or mud; free of obstructions that I have looked over previously with the sounder and am very familiar with.
Set a slow to moderate trolling speed over the bottom. Generally when dragging gravel we like to go into the current as you are a little less likely to get into trouble, (hung up), with your ball on the bottom as things will happen a little slower and you can often use the current and a fast turn to allow the current to push your boat backwards to take the forward pulling pressure off the trapped ball which sometimes helps release the ball. You also want your rigger drag set correctly so it will play out slowly on hook up and not instantly break the cable. That slow speed may also make it easier for halibut to hook up.
Drop the ball till it hits the bottom and drop it slower when you are close to the bottom. Once you hit bottom, bring it up a couple of feet and wait a short time for the blow back to raise you ball further up off the bottom. Then drop it again to you hit the bottom and bring it up a couple of feet. If you are using a flasher you will want it about 4 feet off the bottom so your flasher does not slam into the bottom as it turns in a rather large circle. With a dodger you can stay closer to the bottom as they sway back and forth rather than spin in a big circle. I sometimes like using a whole herring by itself.
Our boat is set up particularly well for bottom bouncing when we are not fishing at great depth in the summer. The transducer is way out the back on one side of the pod and the riggers are farther forward on the boat than most people have them mounted. In addition we use a 20lb ball and as stated we are going slow, so unless the current is ripping there is not much blow back and the 20 lb ball will stay under the boat/transducer where it leaves a trail on the sounder. This means you know exactly how close to the bottom the ball is and you can adjust your depth when you are getting close without having to wait till the rigger starts jumping to tell you to raise the ball. This seems to work better than trying to match the counter depth to the sounder depth. Don’t always stay right on the bottom, try different distances off the bottom. For large summer Chinook I like 4 to 20 feet off the bottom. For winter feeders that are on needle fish rather than herring, you can try close to the bottom but move up and down if you are not getting hits and for Halibut just off the bottom.
If the conditions are good for it and big springs are around we have sometimes stacked a second rod 20 feet up which has paid off for us at times.
If the ball is right on the bottom it will sometimes triggers a strike if you pull the ball up about 5 or ten feet once in a while for a short time and then drop it back down. My theory is that for salmon you don’t always want it touching the bottom because it may be easier for salmon to see up if they are on the bottom and not actively feeding. My theory is salmon don’t/can’t look down as much as they look up.
A couple of things not to do:
Do use a metal terminal tackle clip that holds the ball that is the type that takes a lot of finger pressure to push in and release the ball. Do not use the quick on, quick release type terminal clips like the plastic Scotty type, especially if they are worn out and the little plastic bit that is supposed to keep the ball on is bent in a little/lost its spring, so that it is slightly open. I stopped using the plastic type when fishing on the bottom because sometimes the ball will slide right off when dragging gravel - have had it happen.
When dropping the ball and especially if you are not going real deep, don’t let the ball hit the bottom really fast/hard because on rare occasion this can cause the cable to go slack and have a little backlash which can cause the cable to jump off the rigger drum and jam itself into the rigger shaft area which is a real PITA as you cannot bring up the ball and you usually will have to take the rigger apart. If this ever happens to you, turn the boat into deeper water, lift the ball a little with gloves to take the pressure off the drum and then put a smooth clamp (you don’t want to damage/cut the cable) on the cable to hold the ball. With the cable not putting pressure on the drum you can take the rigger apart, free the cable, get it back on the rigger drum and pull up the ball.
A friend of mine made an emergency clamp out of two small pieces of flat soft wood and bolts with wing nuts for this purpose which holds by pressure against one of several things on the rigger boom. I think vice grips and a couple of small smooth flat pieces of wood rounded on the edges could also work but would be harder to use without dropping something in the drink.
PS re: your concern that stirring up the bottom will spook fish, my theory is that it may actually attract fish – salmon/halibut as it may simulate fish stirring up the bottom feeding.
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TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
Awesome reply Rockfish. Ditto on the plastic Scotty rigger ball clips, gave up on those ages ago.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Thanks for all the great tips, I'll probably just drift with a 3 way swivel and a bouncing betty. To scared to put the down rigger ball in the mud their.
Just looking for a way to waste some time while the crab traps are out. Don't like jigging their as its non stop doggies even when i don't use bait. once i was bored and just let a salmon spoon dangle off the bottom and bam dogs like no tomorrow.
Just looking for a way to waste some time while the crab traps are out. Don't like jigging their as its non stop doggies even when i don't use bait. once i was bored and just let a salmon spoon dangle off the bottom and bam dogs like no tomorrow.
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
oops. I thought bottom bouncing was fishing the bottom with a spreader bar. Thats what I was talking about. anyway...
trophywife
Crew Member
if i get hung up the first thing i do is open the brake and keep it open, having two people on board is key of course... bring up the other side and back over the hung up ball without backing over the line with the boat, try and keep it out to the offending side. Slowly back over while bumping the "on" button.. saved quite a few hang ups with this method..
if you do get back lash as rock fish indicated, use your gaff and wrap the line around the handle five or six times, have yer buddy hold it slack for you while getting the line out of the dam drum base.. or jam the gaff so it does not spin and this will give you the slack needed to get it out of the damned drum base.
if you do get back lash as rock fish indicated, use your gaff and wrap the line around the handle five or six times, have yer buddy hold it slack for you while getting the line out of the dam drum base.. or jam the gaff so it does not spin and this will give you the slack needed to get it out of the damned drum base.
