What to do after impeller meltdown?
- Thread starter sly_karma
- Start date
sly_karma
Crew Member
Did that today! Also it went to the lake for its water test. Ran it in gear tied in a slip and checked for temp differences between cylinders (minor) and observed the stats and PRV operating. Water pressure and other data looked good so off we went for a ride.
OMG this thing is a rocket sled! I'm used to two stroke torque out of the hole but this thing just screams out to 5900 rpm @ 42 mph. That was with a 15x17 so I will probably move to a 15x19. Fuel burn at cruise is 4.5 - 5 mpg; I was happy with 3 mpg with my old two stroke on this hull.
Very happy camper here. Took a chance on an 1150-hour motor on a pallet that *appeared* to be a good deal. Did a bunch of work and learned a few things about these high tech motors along the way. I feel my efforts have set me up for reliable boating for a good while. Now I'll go fishing this weekend and then away it goes for the winter.
OMG this thing is a rocket sled! I'm used to two stroke torque out of the hole but this thing just screams out to 5900 rpm @ 42 mph. That was with a 15x17 so I will probably move to a 15x19. Fuel burn at cruise is 4.5 - 5 mpg; I was happy with 3 mpg with my old two stroke on this hull.
Very happy camper here. Took a chance on an 1150-hour motor on a pallet that *appeared* to be a good deal. Did a bunch of work and learned a few things about these high tech motors along the way. I feel my efforts have set me up for reliable boating for a good while. Now I'll go fishing this weekend and then away it goes for the winter.
ship happens
Well-Known Member
Did you program the injector?
Its nearly impossible to tell a lean condition on an Etec. Will only melt a piston at high RPM. Which normally you never need to take it that high as your only burning more fuel. The cooling system on the ETECs are massive, with a high volume water flow, with cylinder heads with massive water flow through the head. There are temp sensors on each head on a Vblock. If plugged into diag you can see port and starboard temp, if using i-con guages temp on digital guages reads port side temp sensor. Even if you had a cylinder running lean and were running at WOT, the head itself would have enough cooling to not be able to tell a piston getting melted.
sly_karma
Crew Member
The injector problem was electrical, coil had failed. Bought a used injector with good coil and the tech switched it into my casing and nozzle, then cleaned all four and bench tested. Kept the same coefficients file since that is based on the physical attributes of the nozzle and piston.
Good points re cooling system though. I could see the PRV open, temp dropped from 165 to 120 in seconds. Sobering though that that huge cooling capacity can hide a piston melting under lean burn condition. The wise folks tell me the 130 needs to run open throttle often, at least once every outing if possible, to prevent the variable exhaust valve for getting carboned up and seizing (that happened to this motor, the previous owner showed me the $7000 invoice for full replacement of midsection and all the associated parts and labour). But yes it makes little sense to run WOT and burn 12 gph when 4000 rpm/28 mph cruise burns 5 gph - those were the numbers I saw last evening.
ship happens
Well-Known Member
Just curious who gave you this information?
I know what engine this is. Came from Parker if I remember right. they did a bunch of work and noone actually knows why lol. Warranty blowout shop bill.. I dunno.
Back when they first started building the FiCHT engines, they were hand calibrating injectors. This was in 1997. As far as production market year.. Then they figured out they could get the same result by adding the capability in the software. By doing that they could achieve perfect results with alot less work. Yes the injectors themselves have changed over the years from the ficht, and the etec, however the concept remains the same. These injectors are A/C voltage driven with pulse modulation. They open and close based on the width, hertz, freq of the a/c voltage they are getting from the power supply within the EMM. these move ultrasonic fast. the New deisel stuff, BMW, and mercedez along with several other type are using similar technology now or the same tech. As a matter of fact Synerjet the manufacturer of the ETEC injector I believe manufactures all the deisel stuff. The Engine that you have has what was named a BIP injector. They switch in 08. Basically the same thing, however everytime this one opens it has to be told to close. Where as the previous voicecoil injectors all the wway back to the fichts were a little bit different on that. Some of it was mechanical and some was electronic. As far as how they close and reopen again.
The injector nozzles are so identically the same due to the machining that for there to be a huge difference by nozzle change would be extreemly rare. Its because whats actually important is the duration and length that the injector opens for. This is controlled electronically. The element inside the injector casing is the injector. Its the electronic coil, and the mechanical portion as well. Mechanical and electronic devices all have variances in being exactly perfect with one another. Its whats inside that casing That makes up 98 percent of how that injector gets controlled by that EMM. Piston or and mechanical part inside the cylinder block are only mechanical parts that are 97 percent identical. When we build Engine in ETEC land we bore cylinders based on exact size of a piston since again so manufactured part is identical. This is getting pretty fussy, however thats how we do it. Injector nozzle... meh. the length of the nozzles are all the same. Only thing that could be different is the machining of the flange inside where it opens. This nozzle gets open by the injector, and the injector needs to open the right length. in a perfect world yeah dont change nozzles, however it wont be a issue with lean condition as yes not programming a coeffecient file would be. Absolutely
As far as carbon build up goes, running at higher RPM will only produce more carbon in any engine. Why? because your burning more fuel. The more HP you pull from an engine the more fuel you burn. the more fuel you burn the more carbon. Since Etecs torque curve doesnt change a hell of alot between 4 and 55 theres absolutely no need to burn the extra fuel. Maybe if your in the bassmaster classic lol
Anyway moral of the story is that programming the injection on ETECs is extreemly important.
I know what engine this is. Came from Parker if I remember right. they did a bunch of work and noone actually knows why lol. Warranty blowout shop bill.. I dunno.
Back when they first started building the FiCHT engines, they were hand calibrating injectors. This was in 1997. As far as production market year.. Then they figured out they could get the same result by adding the capability in the software. By doing that they could achieve perfect results with alot less work. Yes the injectors themselves have changed over the years from the ficht, and the etec, however the concept remains the same. These injectors are A/C voltage driven with pulse modulation. They open and close based on the width, hertz, freq of the a/c voltage they are getting from the power supply within the EMM. these move ultrasonic fast. the New deisel stuff, BMW, and mercedez along with several other type are using similar technology now or the same tech. As a matter of fact Synerjet the manufacturer of the ETEC injector I believe manufactures all the deisel stuff. The Engine that you have has what was named a BIP injector. They switch in 08. Basically the same thing, however everytime this one opens it has to be told to close. Where as the previous voicecoil injectors all the wway back to the fichts were a little bit different on that. Some of it was mechanical and some was electronic. As far as how they close and reopen again.
The injector nozzles are so identically the same due to the machining that for there to be a huge difference by nozzle change would be extreemly rare. Its because whats actually important is the duration and length that the injector opens for. This is controlled electronically. The element inside the injector casing is the injector. Its the electronic coil, and the mechanical portion as well. Mechanical and electronic devices all have variances in being exactly perfect with one another. Its whats inside that casing That makes up 98 percent of how that injector gets controlled by that EMM. Piston or and mechanical part inside the cylinder block are only mechanical parts that are 97 percent identical. When we build Engine in ETEC land we bore cylinders based on exact size of a piston since again so manufactured part is identical. This is getting pretty fussy, however thats how we do it. Injector nozzle... meh. the length of the nozzles are all the same. Only thing that could be different is the machining of the flange inside where it opens. This nozzle gets open by the injector, and the injector needs to open the right length. in a perfect world yeah dont change nozzles, however it wont be a issue with lean condition as yes not programming a coeffecient file would be. Absolutely
As far as carbon build up goes, running at higher RPM will only produce more carbon in any engine. Why? because your burning more fuel. The more HP you pull from an engine the more fuel you burn. the more fuel you burn the more carbon. Since Etecs torque curve doesnt change a hell of alot between 4 and 55 theres absolutely no need to burn the extra fuel. Maybe if your in the bassmaster classic lol
Anyway moral of the story is that programming the injection on ETECs is extreemly important.
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sly_karma
Crew Member
The work on the invoice I have is from the dealership in Campbell River; all new exhaust housing, exhaust valve actuator and associated parts. I spoke to service personnel there and they recalled it well, definitely seized exhaust valves. This motor was mounted on a yacht tender and the engine report showed it only went above 4000 rpm 10% of its total hours; ie, the exhaust valve hardly ever moved, so it eventually got stuck in place. BRP eventually recognized the problem and added a grease nipple to the valves' pivot shaft for 2011 models and beyond.
I take your point about carbon buildup, although all the received wisdom around two stroke and especially etec is they need to be run open throttle reasonably often 'to reduce carbon buildup'. Having seen the way the PRV so effectively cools the motor above 2500 rpm, I'm not so sure. Internal operating temperatures actually drop when the motor is working hard, and quite substantially at that.
Thanks for the details about the etec injectors. I'm still trying to get the previous owner to stand by his promise that the motor was running "110%" and purchase a new injector and have it shipped to me. Failing that, I'll buy a new injector myself and install it and the new coefficient file this winter. I already made a bootstrap cable and I've been using EVDiag without issue.
I take your point about carbon buildup, although all the received wisdom around two stroke and especially etec is they need to be run open throttle reasonably often 'to reduce carbon buildup'. Having seen the way the PRV so effectively cools the motor above 2500 rpm, I'm not so sure. Internal operating temperatures actually drop when the motor is working hard, and quite substantially at that.
Thanks for the details about the etec injectors. I'm still trying to get the previous owner to stand by his promise that the motor was running "110%" and purchase a new injector and have it shipped to me. Failing that, I'll buy a new injector myself and install it and the new coefficient file this winter. I already made a bootstrap cable and I've been using EVDiag without issue.
ship happens
Well-Known Member
Yeah it was Bill Howich i think. Ive seen the invoice for that engine
Alot of people think that if you run at WOT that the engine will burn hotter or combustion will be hotter and burn off whatever is there like an insinerator. Best way to reduce carbon build up is to run synthetic oil, and every 6 to 800 hours load up the cylinders with CRC carb cleaner or some really potent solvent. Seafoams and engine tuner wont disolve it. My 2 c
Make sure you program that injector. Also you wont need a bootstrap cable for that. That is only for software updates which you most likely will not have the capability unless your a dealer and have the files uploaded into your version of diag
Alot of people think that if you run at WOT that the engine will burn hotter or combustion will be hotter and burn off whatever is there like an insinerator. Best way to reduce carbon build up is to run synthetic oil, and every 6 to 800 hours load up the cylinders with CRC carb cleaner or some really potent solvent. Seafoams and engine tuner wont disolve it. My 2 c
Make sure you program that injector. Also you wont need a bootstrap cable for that. That is only for software updates which you most likely will not have the capability unless your a dealer and have the files uploaded into your version of diag