The other side of the fence.

[Dave]

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/peches-fisheries/ifmp-gmp/index-eng.htm

Get a copy of the 2014 Salmon IFMP at the beginning of May
or ask your dfo contact for a copy
Many of us have read this cover to cover for many years.
That will tell you what you want to know.

I'll just add this part so you can read the draft 2014 salmon outlook
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/species-especes/salmon-saumon/outlook-perspective/salmon_outlook-perspective_saumon-2014-eng.html


May as well add this from the link above.

This version of the 2014 outlook should be regarded as an early scan of salmon production, as very preliminary information, and as subject to change as more information becomes available. This preliminary version of the document will be replaced by a final version, planned for release in April 2014. However, individual outlooks may be periodically updated as statistical forecasts and assessments are completed and reviewed. Summary of Pacific Salmon Outlook Units for 2014

A total of 91 Outlook Units were considered and outlooks categorized for 84. Six units were data deficient (ND), and one pink unit was not applicable (NA). Thirty-three (33) Outlook Units are likely to be at or above target abundance (categories 3, 4, 3/4), while 28 are expected to be of some conservation concern (categories 1, 2, 1/2). The remaining 23 Outlook Units have mixed outlook levels (categories 1/3, 1/4, 2/3, 2/4). The Fraser chinook Outlook Units were re-aligned from nine units down to five units in order to match the stock groupings used for fisheries management purposes. Overall, the outlook for 2014 has increased relative to the previous outlook (2013 for most species but 2012 for pink). Twenty-one (21) Outlook Units improved in category (Early Stuart, Early Summer North Thompson, Summer Nechako, Fall Portage, Fall South Thompson, Somass, Areas 11 to 13, Babine Lake and Skeena sockeye; Fraser Summer 41, WCVI Hatchery, Areas 9 & 10, and Skeena chinook; Mid / Upper Fraser, Thompson, Area 13, Georgia Strait and Alsek coho; Areas 11 to 13 and Areas 3 to 6 pink; Yukon chum). Nine units declined in category (Early Summer Lower Fraser, Summer Raft and Henderson sockeye; Fraser Spring 42, Fraser Summer 52 and Stikine chinook; Georgia Strait West pink; Georgia Strait and Porcupine chum). Please note that assessments for southern BC chum and coho salmon are incomplete, forecasts are not available at this time and these data will be revised later.

What has this to do with BN"s question, which was... what BC wild or hatchery stock has been compromised by salmon farms ??

 

[Dave]

You are of course either joking - or just plain sh*t disturbing - right Dave? You used to work for DFO - right?

No, not joking, not disturbing anything, and yes. I suggest a viable population of Atlantic's would be accepted by anglers. You disagree? What is your stance on Brown Trout in the Cowichan?

 

[agentaqua]

No, not joking, not disturbing anything, and yes. I suggest a viable population of Atlantic's would be accepted by anglers. You disagree? What is your stance on Brown Trout in the Cowichan?

Wow Dave - that is definitely NOT the view I would have expected from an ex-DFO guy. Maybe we should just say f*ck it, eh? Maybe release Asian carp into the Great Lakes, maybe release all sorts of alien species and just say F*CK it to the Pacific salmon. Great outlook Dave!

 

[Dave]

Wow Dave - that is definitely NOT the view I would have expected from an ex-DFO guy. Maybe we should just say f*ck it, eh? Maybe release Asian carp into the Great Lakes, maybe release all sorts of alien species and just say F*CK it to the Pacific salmon. Great outlook Dave!

Missed you too Agent! LOL!

 

[agentaqua]

What has this to do with BN"s question, which was... what BC wild or hatchery stock has been compromised by salmon farms ??

try this dave

 

[Birdsnest]

Haha the graph stops at 2009. How convenient.

 

[Birdsnest]

Allow me to produce this document. It has BC Salmon farmers written at the top so most of you do not have to consider it due to your issues with bias. lol
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5065406

All kinds of good stuff in there to ease concerns about atlantic salmon dominating bc waters. they had their chance. they failed.

 

[stones93]

Wow, this thread feels like arguing evololution with a Mormon. I recently saw Bill Nye debate a creationist. Both had points to consider (healthy debate) but it was over for me when Bill Nye asked the other guy, what evidence (EVIDENCE) could or would change your mind. He said nothing could change his mind (wow that is disturbing).Debating Birdsnest reminds me of this, however, his side has unfortuntaely been winning to debate (or else we wouldn't have government completely dismissing the cohen report). I would like to thank him for all his critique here as it show us WHAT WE ARE UP AGAINST! We can debate all we want here, we can be right, however, we need to work on our strategy and message to put these people (not the word i wanted to use) to bed! Thank you Birdsnest for highlighting what we are aginst and helping us to develop a cohesive response to your argument! Screaming and yelling will not help, SCIENCE and INTELLIGENCE shall guide us!

 

[Birdsnest]

Thank you Birdsnest for highlighting what we are aginst and helping us to develop a cohesive response to your argument!

My pleasure. Glad to see that some one sees the requirement for better responses to the points I make from the anti camp. Unfortunately when one is reduced to calling people names, shills, ignorant, uneducated, and dismissing content as bias there usually isnt much left but the good news is as time goes on more science will reveal new details to unanswered questions.

 

[calmsea]

Wow, this thread feels like arguing evololution with a ...

You meant Moron, right?

 

[profisher]

I wonder if BN previously worked in the oil industry promoting the shipping of oil through Prince William Sound but thought it was best to move and start selling something new?

 

[profisher]

Once he is done here he can make his next career as a nurse in Guinea where he can tell the Ebola patients that he is a virus expert and that they have nothing to fear.

 

[agentaqua]

My pleasure. Glad to see that some one sees the requirement for better responses to the points I make from the anti camp. Unfortunately when one is reduced to calling people names, shills, ignorant, uneducated, and dismissing content as bias there usually isnt much left but the good news is as time goes on more science will reveal new details to unanswered questions.

Science ALREADY HAS revealed new details BN. Englishman - particularly - and others like GLG, GDW, and myself have already posted this science on this forum many times - already.You appear to want to dismiss this science as "only hypothesis" (and obviously you have no understanding of what a scientific hypothesis or theory is) - since it disagrees with your indoctrinated mind. You also appear to have trouble understanding the difference between science and propaganda. If you wish to be seen as the poor misunderstood "saviour" of the open net-cage industry - you would do yourself a favour by getting more educated - particularly where science is concerned.

 

[fogged in]

You also appear to have trouble understanding the difference between science and propaganda. If you wish to be seen as the poor misunderstood "saviour" of the open net-cage industry - you would do yourself a favour by getting more educated - particularly where science is concerned.

My experience has been that people like Birdsnest thrive on attention.
Good or bad, it does not matter.
I see him sitting back laughing at all these post and loving the attention.
I will ignore him in the future and suggest we all do the same.
He does not deserve the respect or the pleasure we are giving him by rising to his bait.
He won't like that much!!

 

[ClayoquotKid]

The difference between Science and Propaganda is this: Science does not include conspiracies and name calling.
It is amazing how a few well put points (Hats off to Birdsnest and Dave) can get the usual suspects all up in a lather.
If the speculation found within the reams of peer reviewed paper provided were true, there would be real world results.
Coming up on 40 years of farming, it is not up to industry to prove its innocence, it is up to opponents to put up or shut up when it comes to measuring impacts in the real world.
Try doing that without name calling or invoking collusion and conspiracy, see how far you get.

 

[Admin]

Given that this debate will always create an "agree to disagree" outcome we are closing this thread before the debate degenerates any further.