Stamp River Falls -Fish Count

I agree with those on here that point the finger at DFO. I also find it interesting that
The only sector with accurate accounting is getting **** on once again.
Anyone know what the 270,000 rec anglers took out of the system? How about the
Unmonitored FN fishery?
 
I agree with those on here that point the finger at DFO. I also find it interesting that
The only sector with accurate accounting is getting **** on once again.
Anyone know what the 270,000 rec anglers took out of the system? How about the
Unmonitored FN fishery?

agreed F4A
 
I agree with those on here that point the finger at DFO. I also find it interesting that
The only sector with accurate accounting is getting **** on once again.
Anyone know what the 270,000 rec anglers took out of the system? How about the
Unmonitored FN fishery?

Wow, some serious lack of intelligence shows again! At the latest by now the title of "The only sector with accurate accounting" for the commercials can be put at rest! Nothing but a greedy bunch who do not care for a second about the resource. Short term profit is ALL they care about. And unfortunately they are also the onces with the most direct and profound impact on the resource. And as long as that greed prevails, the commercial sector cannot be a stewart of a resource. They would literally wipe it out in one season.
 
Wow, some serious lack of intelligence shows again! At the latest by now the title of "The only sector with accurate accounting" for the commercials can be put at rest! Nothing but a greedy bunch who do not care for a second about the resource. Short term profit is ALL they care about. And unfortunately they are also the onces with the most direct and profound impact on the resource. And as long as that greed prevails, the commercial sector cannot be a stewart of a resource. They would literally wipe it out in one season.

Wow, are you truly that ignorant or just suffering from an extreme case of denial.
 
I agree with those on here that point the finger at DFO. I also find it interesting that
The only sector with accurate accounting is getting **** on once again.
Anyone know what the 270,000 rec anglers took out of the system? How about the
Unmonitored FN fishery?

Ask DFO...... :)
 
OBSERVATIONS:
Stamp falls counting facility has been operational since September 1. During the past week
Chinook adult numbers have ranged from 6 to 33. Coho adults have ranged from 38 to 234 and
Sockeye adults have ranged from 0 to 11. Total escapement through Stamp Falls to October
31 is 25,894 adult Chinook, 47,100 adult Coho and 500 adult Sockeye. Sockeye escapement
through both Great Central Lake and Sproat Lake counters requires further analysis at this time.
No additional data is available at present.
Stamp Falls enumeration has been fully operational so far with no shut downs.
River flows are moderate, and river temperature is 11oC.
2011 EXPECTATIONS:
Sockeye: For 2011, the forecast return of Somass sockeye was upgraded to 1,400,000. The
escapement target for this run size is 513,600, giving a surplus of 886,400 sockeye available for
catch. Expected stock composition is about 48% Great Central, and 52% Sproat Sockeye.
Expected age composition is about 25%, 62%, 7% and 6% for age 42, 52, 53 and 63 adults,
respectively.
Chinook: Approximately 47,600 Somass Chinook are forecast to return to Barkley Sound and
Alberni Inlet in 2011. The predicted adult age composition is 8%, 81% and 11% of 3, 4 and 5-
year olds, respectively. Given the age composition, about 32,500 spawners are required to
meet the 57.2M egg target for the system. Therefore, about 15,000 Somass Chinook are
available for harvest in the ‘terminal fishery’ from Alberni Inlet seaward to Barkley Sound.
Chum: Approximately 565,000 Chum are forecast to return to South West Vancouver Island in
2011, however pre-season forecasts for Chum returns are highly uncertain. Over the last few
years, returns of WCVI Chum have been well below long-term averages and this trend is
expected to continue in 2011.
Coho: For the 2008 brood year, 405,000 coho smolts were released from the Robertson Creek
Hatchery and there were about 39,000 natural spawners. The forecast survival rate of
Robertson Creek/Somass Coho for the 2008 brood year is above average at 8.5%. The total
expected return to Somass system is about 40,000 to 60,000 coho.
PROGRAM OVERVIEW:
Fish counting operations on the Somass system are run by the Hupacasath First Nation in
collaboration with DFO.
To estimate the escapement of Somass Sockeye, automatic fish counters are installed at the
Sproat and Great Central fishways in mid-May. Twice weekly visual calibrations are used to
validate counter data as well as to determine species and age (jacks versus adult) composition
of escapement. A portion of the Sockeye escapement is biologically sampled at the fishways.
Of interest are age at return, sex ratio and fecundity. For Henderson Sockeye, escapement is
estimated through a series of swim surveys of the main spawning habitat (Clemens Creek and
nearby beach habitat). These surveys are conducted in September and October.
Counters are removed from the Great Central fishway in early September when Chinook begin
to migrate upstream. After this, all salmon passing through the Stamp Falls fishway are counted
by trained and experienced observers. They identify fish to species, estimate the portion of
jacks by relative size and estimate the portion of marked (adipose fin clipped) fish. Migration
through the fishway is videotaped for later verification of daytime real-time counts and species
Page 2 of 3
identification and for enumeration of night-time migration. Real-time observations are typically
greater than 95% accurate for counts, species identification and mark rate.
Below, are a series of figures that express 2011 escapement observations relative to average
escapement timing from 1999 to 2010 for Chinook and Coho. Although informative, in some
years observed escapement rate relative to average escapement timing may be a poor
indication of final run abundance. In contrast to ‘run timing’, (the return of Chinook/Coho to
Alberni Inlet) escapement timing tends to be more variable. It is influenced by the impact of
fisheries and environmental conditions, such as river temperature or flow.
Cumulative Daytime Adult Chinook Returns Through Stamp Falls
2011 vs Average Timing (1999 - 2010 with 1 st.dev)
 
25,894 adult Chinook...... So disappointing and shameful. So sad to see this great river going into the list of the rivers in trouble.

Sounds about right.... Remember you don't want to have too many fish spawning :rolleyes:
 
25,894 adult Chinook...... So disappointing and shameful. So sad to see this great river going into the list of the rivers in trouble.

Wow blast just a reminder how things get screwed up excerpt from 1999 DFO, and counting:

we ould have been very close to the 32,00 requird if the commies didn't "accidentily" catch 6000(i think thats the number) more then they should have.
 
Wasn't it not too long ago that the somass river had double even triple the escapements we have seen for the last few years?

Early / late 90's?

Thought I saw I post on here one time saying that there was nearly 100,000 chinook hit the somass river out of nowhere and surprised everyone.

I am not entirely surprised by this number, look at the nootka sound / conuma river hatchery returns they average around the same number (20 - 30,000) chinooks after all the sport / commercials get a wack at them.
 
we ould have been very close to the 32,00 requird if the commies didn't "accidentily" catch 6000(i think thats the number) more then they should have.

We would have been so "close to the 32,00 required" if all three sectors did not go over their individual allocation(s), as everyone participated and had a hand in diminishing the brood stock for this year. The concerning issue is the lack of female to male ratio.

Let's ask DFO how they can expect the hatchery to do their jobs effectively, by the decisions that they made for the region this year! ??

DHA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If DFO had managed the opening properly and gone with a per boat allocation that added up to the total they initially wanted to be caught in the commercial opening all would have been well. Instead, DFO allowed a free for all lottery fishery with no controls over it. It wont happen next year if they change over to a per boat quota. This isn't a sport vs commercial issue - its a management issue, and DFO and their management practices are at the core of the problem. They need to stop being driven by doing everything possible to run status quo commercial fisheries, and switch to ensuring all sectors are treated fairly and most importantly, the fish are protected.

Also, one should point out that in terms of access to the Chinook it is First Nations, then Sport, and if any excess then Commercial. This argument gets used on us for Sockeye from Commercial sector - so what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

In actual fact, DFO really doesn't have a good handle on the number of Chinook from the Somas are caught in the overall sport fishery. What we all need is an improved catch reporting and monitoring process. There should be a mandatory catch log that is turned in weekly, and greater efforts to obtain scale and dna samples so we can more effectively monitor catch and more accurately report the numbers. My sense is the sport fleet catches less than reported by DFO as their model over estimates the catch per boat. A good case in point is the halibut quota fiasco - the DFO model uses the average commercial caught halibut, when in fact the average sport caught halibut is much smaller than those caught commercially....ergo, same wrong assumptions for salmon.
 
Oh yeah, forgot to mention for fish4all that the commercially gill net caught chinook numbers are only an "estimate" as each boat is not required to report all fish. Some captains sell their fish direct off the boat and these are not counted...that comes from a gill net captain direct. He's telling me they deep 6 quite a number of fish which are not reported...so, we need to be careful to take those numbers from DFO on commercially caught fish with the same grain of salt we do for the other sectors.
 
DFO does not want the sport caught data, they want the guide and lodge data, stated, as per our DFO rep, Brad "Gamechanger" in the last Nanaimo SFAC meeting. He said that it was too easy to lie and fudge the data that we all record on our FEDERAL documents(rec fishing license). Last time I checked, it was an offense that contravenes the ACT and breaks federal law to knowingly lie on a federal document. Therefor it makes perfect sense to use a tool that is already in play...but not according to DFO(Brad).

FN and Sport went well over on their allocations prior to the commercial opening. DFO's numbers don't lie! ;)

DHA.
 
so, if that was the case...why did DFO allow a commercial opening? There has to be a surplus before they allow a commercial chinook fishery.
 
The actual question to ask DFO - is why did the run get upgraded?

DHA
 
Answer...because we needed an excuse to fudge the numbers to run a commercial fishery. Think about...who's the problem....DFO
 
Answer...because we needed an excuse to fudge the numbers to run a commercial fishery. Think about...who's the problem....DFO

Or...

ANSWER...because DFO needed an excuse to fudge the numbers to hide the fact that they let both the FN and sport sector exceed their allocations prior to the run upgrade. To ensure that everyone understands, both FN commercial and Commercial sectors participated after the run upgrade as did the sport and FN food fishers continue fishing. Why was it upgraded?

DHA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wasn't it not too long ago that the somass river had double even triple the escapements we have seen for the last few years?

Early / late 90's?

Thought I saw I post on here one time saying that there was nearly 100,000 chinook hit the somass river out of nowhere and surprised everyone.

I am not entirely surprised by this number, look at the nootka sound / conuma river hatchery returns they average around the same number (20 - 30,000) chinooks after all the sport / commercials get a wack at them.

I believe you are correct. The run was once great. But I feel the biggest issue is DFO's policy in not allowing any additional escapement other then what they feel is the bare minimum to retain the run. If they decide they require 32000, they will allow commercial fishing if they feel that 32001 will make it through. God forbid, that 1 extra fish might make it through. This would be a resource underutilized by the commercials. DFO's under constant and tremendous pressure by an oversized commercial fleet to allow harvesting and DFO makes every effort to get them fishing if only for a few hours and even if it means that it puts the run in jeopardy. If this includes fudging the numbers then that's what they'll do.
Personally, I wish they would bench mark the run at 100,000 (3 times what is required and THEN fish to that mark.) This would allow a large safety margin and continued good fishing forever!
 
Back
Top