Richmond fish broker fined $77,500 for selling endangered abalone

[Pippen]

I'll leave my comments out of this as I am getting beyond sick of this.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/abalone-endangered-fishery-illegal-sale-1.3743687

 

[Aces]

I feel there is a lot more of this going on than most people realize

 

[ziggy]

They need to go after the whole chain, including the stores and restaurants that buy poached products. As the article states the end consumer doesn't know the origin, but the stores and restaurants do, or at least they should! This should also apply to poached salmon!

 

[finaddict]

The truly sad part of this is that it is nothing new. Poaching has been going on for more than 50 years by all groups and backgrounds, FN's, Sporties, New Canadians - doesn't seem to matter. What is alarming is how deep it has become entrenched in Asian Commercial ventures and claims of ignorance or not speaking the language are always the first excuses. Clam diggers, crab traps, sole, rockfish, salmon, doesn't matter.

No funding by the Feds, and no care about what goes on on the west coast. Illegal nets, illegal set lines, undersize limits, over harvest, illegal by-catch and on and on. However if you are caught with a barbed hook......... FREEZE!!!! I"M GONNA NEED BACK-UP!!!!!!

 

[DuroBoat]

I was at Montague Harbour 2 weekends ago tied up at the dock for lunch on the boat. four Asians came down the dock and proceeded to check their crab traps hanging off the end of the dock. When the got the traps up, they dumped ALL the crabs in to a large bucket and quickly covered it with a towel. Then didn't even check the size, species or gender of any of the little crabs! I asked them if I could have a look in their bucket and they reluctantly agreed - I pointed out to them that every crab they had were undersize and many were female! At about that time, they forgot how to speak English, still I explained the difference between female and male and size restrictions - one of the group knew they were illegal. I took their bucket of crabs and dumped them back in the ocean. They didn't say anything because they knew they were poaching but as I departed, they put their traps down again (keeping an eye on me leaving the harbour). What can one do? its rampant

 

[RileyDog]

and the possibility is .. if you did something like that 'over there' where they come from ... you might have your hands cut off ..

 

[TheBigGuy]

They need to go after the whole chain, including the stores and restaurants that buy poached products. As the article states the end consumer doesn't know the origin, but the stores and restaurants do, or at least they should! This should also apply to poached salmon!

I totally agree. I think a high percentage of seafood sold in some "ethnic" restaurants is poached. Lack of enforcement Personel on the water makes poaching rampant. The odds of getting caught are slim, and with the price of seafood there is huge money to be made. I would guess that the professional poachers make more of an impact on our stocks than all the legit sportsmen's take combined. I think the problem is massive, but rarely ever results in a conviction because of cutbacks in enforcement in the fisheries dept.

 

[triplenickel]

I totally agree. I think a high percentage of seafood sold in some "ethnic" restaurants is poached. Lack of enforcement Personel on the water makes poaching rampant. The odds of getting caught are slim, and with the price of seafood there is huge money to be made. I would guess that the professional poachers make more of an impact on our stocks than all the legit sportsmen's take combined. I think the problem is massive, but rarely ever results in a conviction because of cutbacks in enforcement in the fisheries dept.

That's a pretty bold claim, curious to know what it was based on.

 

[TheBigGuy]

It's mostly based on the fact that when there actually was fisheries enforcement on the west coast citations and convictions of restaurants was very common. Now that the budgets have been slashed you don't see convictions as regularly. That is not because the problem magically went away. In my opinion the problem is worse than ever because of the lack of enforcement resources.

If you take the highway patrol off the highways what do you think would happen. Not many speeding tickets are going to be issued, but speeding would be rampant.

Just because the enforcement is gone and convictions are not in the headlines daily, does not mean the problem has gone away. Far from it, there's too much money to be made from poached seafood and no deterrent to curtail it.

Do I have statistics to back that claim up. No of course not, because there would actually have to be regular investigation Personel on the ground and that costs money. Budget cuts on the west coast have left our fisheries a big free for all. I haven't seen a fisheries check on the water all season. Have you.

 

[triplenickel]

I was more curious how you were able to single out the ethnic restaurants from the rest, but as you said you've got no stats to back it up so I know where it came from.

No I haven't seen any and it blows me away, it doesn't take much brains, effort or manpower to figure out that Campbell River for example has essentially 3 boat launches, even a single officer could put in a little bit of time at each one on different days of the week and establish enough of a presence to deter many. I know we have the officers I see them driving around town all the time, why aren't they there? For that matter where are the RCMP at the launches in the evenings, no shortage of them driving around town.

 

[Aces]

I was more curious how you were able to single out the ethnic restaurants from the rest, but as you said you've got no stats to back it up so I know where it came from.

No I haven't seen any and it blows me away, it doesn't take much brains, effort or manpower to figure out that Campbell River for example has essentially 3 boat launches, even a single officer could put in a little bit of time at each one on different days of the week and establish enough of a presence to deter many. I know we have the officers I see them driving around town all the time, why aren't they there? For that matter where are the RCMP at the launches in the evenings, no shortage of them driving around town.

Your proof is in the given names of the people convicted under fisheries charges. It's available on DFO's website

 

[TheBigGuy]

I was more curious how you were able to single out the ethnic restaurants from the rest, but as you said you've got no stats to back it up so I know where it came from.

It basically comes from the fact that in the days when there actually was investigations and convictions in the restaurant sector, oriental restaurants were regularly found guilty of selling poached seafood. I don't think much has changed, except that now the scant enforcement resources aren't directed at the restaurant industry much anymore. I don't like to single out any ethnicity for anything, but the convictions that used to take place in the restaurant business for this were all almost exclusively of the oriental restaurant variety. I hate to single any one group out, but as Fishtofino stated you only have to look at the convictions list to realize (and it's pretty obvious) which group dominates all the convictions for shellfish poaching. As I said I hate to point the finger at any ethnicity (or stereotype) , but the convictions list pretty much says it all.

 

[triplenickel]

I looked at the website for convictions, for 2016 it's 50/50 to date. Not sure how we conclude they all own restaurants, or that they were destined for restaurants. I mean at least half must own a lundromat right?

Here's the breakdown for the "orientals";

4 convictions for over the limit on oysters
5 convictions for over the limit on clams
1 crabbing in a dioxin closure area
1 crabbing in a closed area
1 buying prawns that were caught with a license
1 salmon fishing with barbs

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/charges-inculpations/pac-eng.htm

It's also interesting to note that I don't ever recall reading a contentious thread or one showing concern for shellfish on here. But salmon, ling, halibut, rainbow etc are argued about daily, guess which group dominates those convictions?

All that being said why isn't there an effort to get any of these guys? As I said earlier pick one of the three launches in CR and hang out there in the evenings, it doesn't take much manpower. Why have I NEVER seen enforcement of any type there?

 

[triplenickel]

I was at Montague Harbour 2 weekends ago tied up at the dock for lunch on the boat. four Asians came down the dock and proceeded to check their crab traps hanging off the end of the dock. When the got the traps up, they dumped ALL the crabs in to a large bucket and quickly covered it with a towel. Then didn't even check the size, species or gender of any of the little crabs! I asked them if I could have a look in their bucket and they reluctantly agreed - I pointed out to them that every crab they had were undersize and many were female! At about that time, they forgot how to speak English, still I explained the difference between female and male and size restrictions - one of the group knew they were illegal. I took their bucket of crabs and dumped them back in the ocean. They didn't say anything because they knew they were poaching but as I departed, they put their traps down again (keeping an eye on me leaving the harbour). What can one do? its rampant

Did you report them? Snap a couple pics? Get as plate number?

 

[casper5280]

I had one once at Beacher Bay. They were all there, DFO, RCMP, and Canadian Power Squadron. CPS was doing free checks on your boat and giving you stickers if you had all the right stuff. You pass and you get a sticker and if you get stopped again they see your sticker and they don't **** with you. Guy said that if you didn't pass call him when you were right and he'd give you a sticker. the RCMP were just there looking for guy's hammered, and DFO was doing their thing. I thought it was great. Funny thing was I was so quick getting in and on the trailer and all my fish was cleaned and in the cooler on the back of the boat that no one stopped me. I was hoping to be checked just to show I was all legal. They do that a few times a year at every launch and people will start to think twice. In all my 40 years of fishing I have been stopped 5 times and that was years and years ago. In fact it was 28 years ago in Banfield Harbour and we didn't even have fish that day.

 

[TheBigGuy]

This will be my last post on this thread triplenickle. I don't want to come off as a redneck, and apparently you don't get what I'm saying.

In the past when there were more resources for enforcement, restaurants were frequently investigated and prosecuted for illegal seafood sales. There are very limited resources on the west coast for Personel to investigate infractions. Restaurants obviously are at the end of the illegal supply chain. Priority seems to be focused on apprehending the suppliers, not the small retailers in the restaurant business these days. A large fine like $77,000 could never be paid by a small restaurant. The return on manpower hours is far greater if the targets are companies that can afford to pay a large fine. So, that is apparently where the enforcement seems to be targeted, not the small end retail restaurants.

If you look at my post I made a point of saying the majority of "SHELLFISH" poaching infractions came from one group. The overall infractions may be 50/50 taken as a whole, but the shellfish infractions are exclusively represented by one group. If you look carefully at the infractions you'll see that some were commercial Crabbers. Commercial crab boats take massive quantities of crab in comparison to an individual. That alone should give you an indication of the amount of illegal harvesting that is taking place.

There is a very big underground economy fueled by illegal shellfish harvest. The restaurants are just one end of that supply chain. If you can't understand that apprehensions of massive quantities of illegally harvested shellfish is for retail sale in restaurants and other retail outlets then I guess I'll never be able to explain how a supply chain works. The violators wouldn't be harvesting such large quantities, if it was not profitable and there was no demand and ready market for their illegally harvested shellfish. The restaurants are one end of the illegal shellfish trade. If you choose to believe this is not happening that's fine, but it's pretty obvious to many it is a large underground industry on the coast.

 

[triplenickel]

This will be my last post on this thread triplenickle. I don't want to come off as a redneck, and apparently you don't get what I'm saying.

In the past when there were more resources for enforcement, restaurants were frequently investigated and prosecuted for illegal seafood sales. There are very limited resources on the west coast for Personel to investigate infractions. Restaurants obviously are at the end of the illegal supply chain. Priority seems to be focused on apprehending the suppliers, not the small retailers in the restaurant business these days. A large fine like $77,000 could never be paid by a small restaurant. The return on manpower hours is far greater if the targets are companies that can afford to pay a large fine. So, that is apparently where the enforcement seems to be targeted, not the small end retail restaurants.

If you look at my post I made a point of saying the majority of "SHELLFISH" poaching infractions came from one group. The overall infractions may be 50/50 taken as a whole, but the shellfish infractions are exclusively represented by one group. If you look carefully at the infractions you'll see that some were commercial Crabbers. Commercial crab boats take massive quantities of crab in comparison to an individual. That alone should give you an indication of the amount of illegal harvesting that is taking place.

There is a very big underground economy fueled by illegal shellfish harvest. The restaurants are just one end of that supply chain. If you can't understand that apprehensions of massive quantities of illegally harvested shellfish is for retail sale in restaurants and other retail outlets then I guess I'll never be able to explain how a supply chain works. The violators wouldn't be harvesting such large quantities, if it was not profitable and there was no demand and ready market for their illegally harvested shellfish. The restaurants are one end of the illegal shellfish trade. If you choose to believe this is not happening that's fine, but it's pretty obvious to many it is a large underground industry on the coast.

I get what you're trying to say but I'm not agreeing with it. I did look at your post, I actually highlighted it just so there was no confusion, what you actually said was:

I totally agree. I think a high percentage of seafood sold in some "ethnic" restaurants is poached

It was a big broad brush hence my questioning your claim. So if we're to assume the "ethnic or oriental" convictions listed in the link are for restaurants, or "those peoples" unchecked poaching is restaurant bound why wouldn't you apply the same logic to the good ol boys that get busted?

 

[TheBigGuy]

A Richmond retailer has been fined $77,500 for possessing abalone, an endangered shellfish whose numbers have been in sharp decline since the 1970s.

A provincial court judge fined N G Fung Enterprises earlier this month for violating federal species protection laws that forbid the sale and harvesting of the endangered shellfish, according to Fisheries and Oceans Canada.

The company was also convicted of obstructing a fisheries officer.

• Abalone harvest should be allowed for Gitxaala First Nation: UBC research

Northern abalone, which is found off West Coast waters extending up to Alaska, is sold at premium prices, from between $50 to $100 each.

DFO spokesperson, Tom Hlavac, said the vendor was a broker who sold to restaurants and also had a retail outlet. Inspectors visited the warehouse three times between 2013 and 2015.

They discovered abalone in a concealed room.

The inspectors took samples each time and had them tested at a lab in Nanaimo, B.C., which revealed that it was indeed Canadian northern abalone.