Ndp win in alberta: What does this mean for enbridge?

[tincan]

Make no mistake about it nor will Notley, there is an industry that runs the whole country and it sits here in Alberta,, no one certainly not Notley is going to be the one to break the country,, not in 4 years.. She will do as the rest of them have done and that is sit down,, shut up,, and do as they are told !!!

So here is very common misconception about Canada's economy that is often used. Namely, Oil & Gas run Canada's economy. I have many AB friends and given the importance of the Oil & Gas industry to their livelihoods and many in AB I can see how they would think this. Things are compounded by the local media in AB who cover more Oil & Gas stories in AB than real estate stories in Vancouver. Having an AB-based prime minister with an over-arching goal of Canada as an energy super-power has led many others in Canada to assume that Oil & Gas is the sole driver behind Canada economic well being. I will admit, under Harper, this industry has grown in relative importance due to his aggressive moves wrt legislation, incentives, foreign investment decisions, etc. However, even with all of this Oil & Gas is still a single digit contributor to our national economy. Based on what we hear in the media (tax-payer funded TV ads, for instance) you'd think it represents closer to half of our economy. Look up any sector by sector info for Canada and Oil & Gas sits somewhere in the 4-8% range depending on how it is accounted for. A far cry from what most Albertans (and our PM) would have you believe. Imagine if we directed all of that time, effort, and $$$ on sustainable sectors instead of continuing to prop up a dying industry? I am hopeful that a change in gov't in AB will allow people to take a step back and put things in perspective. Notley will not kill the Oil & Gas industry overnight as walleyes noted. Hopefully, she can restore a bit of sanity to an otherwise irrational and deluded pro-oil section of the population that thinks the merry-go-ride will never end.

Key industries

The Canadian economy in 2012, composed of the industries below, had a relative weighting by value of GDP: In %

12.34 Real estate and rental and leasing
10.86 Manufacturing
07.96 Mining quarrying and oil or gas extraction
07.03 Health care and social assistance
06.90 Public administration
06.55 Finance and insurance
05.41 Wholesale trade
05.41 Retail trade
05.38 Educational services
05.21 Professional scientific and technical services
04.20 Transportation and warehousing
03.31 Information and cultural industries
02.58 Administrative and support, waste management and remediation services
02.46 Utilities
02.10 Accommodation and food services
02.04 Other services (except public administration)
01.59 Agriculture forestry fishing and hunting
00.76 Management of companies and enterprises
00.75 Arts entertainment and recreation

 

[walleyes]

So here is very common misconception about Canada's economy that is often used. Namely, Oil & Gas run Canada's economy. I have many AB friends and given the importance of the Oil & Gas industry to their livelihoods and many in AB I can see how they would think this. Things are compounded by the local media in AB who cover more Oil & Gas stories in AB than real estate stories in Vancouver. Having an AB-based prime minister with an over-arching goal of Canada as an energy super-power has led many others in Canada to assume that Oil & Gas is the sole driver behind Canada economic well being. I will admit, under Harper, this industry has grown in relative importance due to his aggressive moves wrt legislation, incentives, foreign investment decisions, etc. However, even with all of this Oil & Gas is still a single digit contributor to our national economy. Based on what we hear in the media (tax-payer funded TV ads, for instance) you'd think it represents closer to half of our economy. Look up any sector by sector info for Canada and Oil & Gas sits somewhere in the 4-8% range depending on how it is accounted for. A far cry from what most Albertans (and our PM) would have you believe. Imagine if we directed all of that time, effort, and $$$ on sustainable sectors instead of continuing to prop up a dying industry? I am hopeful that a change in gov't in AB will allow people to take a step back and put things in perspective. Notley will not kill the Oil & Gas industry overnight as walleyes noted. Hopefully, she can restore a bit of sanity to an otherwise irrational and deluded pro-oil section of the population that thinks the merry-go-ride will never end.

Key industries

The Canadian economy in 2012, composed of the industries below, had a relative weighting by value of GDP: In %

12.34 Real estate and rental and leasing
10.86 Manufacturing
07.96 Mining quarrying and oil or gas extraction
07.03 Health care and social assistance
06.90 Public administration
06.55 Finance and insurance
05.41 Wholesale trade
05.41 Retail trade
05.38 Educational services
05.21 Professional scientific and technical services
04.20 Transportation and warehousing
03.31 Information and cultural industries
02.58 Administrative and support, waste management and remediation services
02.46 Utilities
02.10 Accommodation and food services
02.04 Other services (except public administration)
01.59 Agriculture forestry fishing and hunting
00.76 Management of companies and enterprises
00.75 Arts entertainment and recreation

What you have to take into consideration when looking at these numbers is how much does the oil industry effect these industries.. The success of the majority of them are directly linked to the success of the oil industry. It would be hard to put a number on it. I would think that the finance ministers of our provinces and our country would have a pretty good idea on what that is. A lot more than what you and I would ever know. I for one would take their word on it. when the leader of a country and his accountant stand up and tell me they are using revenues from a certain industry to pay for the majority of our benifits,, I take his word on it regardless of who that leader is,, he should know. Look,, it's not a bad thing to be dependant on a certain industry more than another,, it is what it is.. We should be happy we have it. There are a lot of countries that have nothing,, would you rather be one of them. Canada is an industry based nation with vast amounts of natural resources,, embrace them, use them to our advantage..

There have been many mistakes made over the years in any industry when it comes to abuse and environmental issues. We learn, we move on, we make it better what we don't want to do is shut it down. I have said it before I will say it again, these are not renewable resources they will run out, we will move on to the next thing. While we have this lets use it. In a responsible way. Time and neccesity will move us on to the next energy resource. You want new forms of energy, you want clean energy,, build it, buy it, invest in it, support it,, don't wait for the government to take you by your little hand and rock you like a baby and make it all nice for you.. Do it yourself, put your money where your mouth is.

 

[agentaqua]

Walleyes - you appear to be making rather large and serious errors in judgement that appear unfortunately prevalent among the Ezra Levant converts. Government is the body that governs us (like it or not) - and there is a role for that body in developing and applying incentives for large-scale social change - particularly in things like public transportation, infrastructure, health care, etc. Marketing is the branch of advertising that creates markets for products. People afford what they can afford and buy what is available to them. Not everyone has the options you may expect them to have - if you are lucky enough to get paid well and have job opportunities that pay well. Closely related Public Relation firms often supply misleading information to the public and decision makers. The stock market is not a form of governance. It's really not that confusing.

 

[walleyes]

Well of course a socialist needs a government,, that's why they are socialists,, they cant make it on their own, they need the collectivism of the group to make it,, they are too weak on their own. The weak can succeed on the backs of the successful. They can let others take the risk while they simply sit back a reap the rewards. They can't think on their own, they can't act on their own, they need the group, they need to be carried. The whole ideal rewards laziness that's why it appeals to so many.

As far as Old Ezy Levant converting me,, I think is more the other way around,, I know the man, we have talked I have probly brought him more to the right than he has me lol..

Later I am done with this one too..

Back to fishing stuff for me,, have fun in the sand box..

 

[tincan]

walleyes,

If you think gov't is simply an obstacle that gets in the way of unbridled capitalism, I would highly recommend you read the following newly published book. There is a particularly informative chapter on Apple, the darling of free-market capitalist ideology and how every major component in Apple's best selling products was either wholly or partially funded / developed by Gov't funding - from the internet, to GPS, to touch screen technology, to the component parts inside. Gov't steps in to develop these new technologies when no on in the private sector (VC's, PE firms, included) would even think of touching these risky technologies. Do me a favour, go borrow this book from your local public library (gov't funded), have a read, and then tell me again how gov't should stay out of the way of industry.

http://marianamazzucato.com/the-entrepreneurial-state/

the entrepreneurial state

The Entrepreneurial State: debunking public vs. private sector myths (Anthem 2013) is stirring up much-needed debate worldwide about the role of the state in fostering long-run innovation led economic growth.

The book comprehensively debunks the myth of a lumbering, bureaucratic state versus a dynamic, innovative private sector. In a series of case studies—from IT, biotech, nanotech to today’s emerging green tech—Professor Mazzucato shows that the opposite is true: the private sector only finds the courage to invest after an entrepreneurial state has made the high-risk investments. In an intensely researched chapter, she reveals that every technology that makes the iPhone so ‘smart’ was government funded: the Internet, GPS, its touch-screen display and the voice-activated Siri.

Mazzucato also controversially argues that in the history of modern capitalism the State has not only fixed market failures, but has also actively shaped and created markets. In doing so, it sometimes wins and sometimes fails. Yet by not admitting the State’s role in such active risk taking, and pretending that the state only cheers on the side-lines while the private sector roars, we have ended up creating an ‘innovation system’ whereby the public sector socializes risks, while rewards are privatized. The book considers how to change this dysfunctional dynamic so that economic growth can be not only ‘smart’ but also ‘inclusive’.

In 2014 Professor Mazzucato was awarded the New Statesman SPERI Prize in Political Economy for her work on smart growth and the entrepreneurial state. The book was shortlisted for the prestigious Wirtschaftsbuchpreis in Germany and featured on the 2013 books of the year lists of the Financial Times and Forbes. It has been translated into Italian, German, Portuguese and Spanish and is forthcoming in Greek, Chinese, Polish, Japanese and Korean.

 

[agentaqua]

Thanks for illustrating the deflection trick used by the PR firms, Walleyes. Maybe you are right - ol' Ezri has learned from you. Ever work in a PR firm or as a "communications professional", Walleyes?

People who have governments are not just the "dirty red commies" (thanks for that - Senator McCarthy). It's you as well Walleyes - you and your irrational fear of the unwashed masses.

EVERYONE on this planet has some form of governance. Tribal people in Borneo have tribal chieftains and tribal councils. **** Germany, and more recently now in Canada - have some form of fascism. The more the totalitarian the states become with top-ended corruption - the more they begin to resemble each other. Fascism and communism are close together on the scale where the 2 ends meet like a clock - rather than a strait line.

There are functioning consensus-based models of governance - ones I consider to be the fairest and most humane. One example is the Nunavut government - which also has it's authority based in a constitutional monarchy - like what our national and provincial governments are supposed to - as well. We DON'T have to put-up with the party system or what the PMO has become. These are NOT part of our Constitution. We just got used to them and let the crooks take over.

Good post Tincan - and thanks.

 

[ziggy]

Really can't you have a civil debate, have we become so hateful we have to resort to name calling? Comparing Canada to **** Germany shows ignorance beyond belief and frankly the mods need to step in a can this thread.

 

[Fish on!]

oil and gas has come a LONG Way in the last 10 years, and yes we still have a long way to go in many areas I won't pretend to know about. But it's a necessary evil for the time being. I can honestly say that there is very little environmental damage done these days compared to what I have saw in the past. We spend millions on protecting our aquifers in Canada and we have so many new laws every year it's hard to keep up on them all. This isn't the states where they frac shallow wells with bad cement jobs. I do my part to keep the country green and moving forward. Not just one or the other. if oil stops today, we're all screwed. I would love to see the day where we used as much alternative energy as possible but the fact is you'll always need fossil fuels.

 

[terrin]

oil and gas has come a LONG Way in the last 10 years, and yes we still have a long way to go in many areas I won't pretend to know about. But it's a necessary evil for the time being. I can honestly say that there is very little environmental damage done these days compared to what I have saw in the past. We spend millions on protecting our aquifers in Canada and we have so many new laws every year it's hard to keep up on them all. This isn't the states where they frac shallow wells with bad cement jobs. I do my part to keep the country green and moving forward. Not just one or the other. if oil stops today, we're all screwed. I would love to see the day where we used as much alternative energy as possible but the fact is you'll always need fossil fuels.

Not sure how you spend millions on protecting aquifers when they do quite nicely if left on their own. I also think that if they refined it at source to one or two grades short of petroleum so that when there is a spill it will dissipate quickly people might be more willing to consider the risk/benefit. Plus we would keep the most value in Canada versus giving it to thers.

 

[Fish on!]

Not sure how you spend millions on protecting aquifers when they do quite nicely if left on their own. I also think that if they refined it at source to one or two grades short of petroleum so that when there is a spill it will dissipate quickly people might be more willing to consider the risk/benefit. Plus we would keep the most value in Canada versus giving it to thers.

I don't even know how to respond to that.? Your all over the place and not much makes sense , I think your talking about natural gas because petro will not dissapate and it's easier to clean up in a raw state then refined.

We spend millions doing proper cement jobs and proving them with bond logs, leaving tie back strings in place on sour wells, inhibitor programs on,ect the list goes on and on. If something isn't right were required by law to fix these things and spend millions doing so.

 

[walleyes]

It's pointless fish on you can't explain it to them,, I have tried many times.. They have this vision that Hollywood and the leftist green propaganda machine has put in their heads and that's all they see, they will not listen. They know more on what goes on out here than we do. They have this vision of us sitting out here,, pouring contaminants in the water, spewing gasses into the air as we laugh and joke about it. They have this vision of our cooperates sitting in Calgary in their towers drinking bourbon, smoking cigars laughing as they make millions destroying the enviroment not giving a damn,,,they just really haven't a clue. They forget who is doing these jobs. We are family people looking after our environment for our kids, we are outdoors people, those out here and in the offices that care about what happens, we spend millions and millions of dollars on environmental policies and research into new technologies to make things better. Our CEO's are parents, grandparents that live in rural communities that care about those people and communities,, but they don't see it because Hollywood has painted a picture and they believe it. They have plucked a few bad apples from the crowd and use those as the example. I run a drilling site,, I garuntee any of you I do more in a day to protect the environment to ensure my site is clean and we leave the smallest possible foot print we can, from garbage to shutting off engines when not being used, to keeping water usage to an absolute minimum,, it's the norm now a days, it's demanded of us from corporate. The lists go on and on. BC, AB have some of the strictest environmental rules and regulations in the world. They must be followed or we get no drilling licenses. Yes there are issues, yes there are incidents it's unfortunate but when you see the big picture of things it's minimul.

But you watch the rebuttal on this,, it will make you laugh it really will.. The copy paste's from the Tyee will be out here in a minute.. It will fall on complete total deaf ears, as they drive to work in their vehicles, with their plastic Kayak on the roof, drinking coffee from their plastic coffee cups, talking on their cell phones making plans to drive to the protest on the weekend to stop the oil projects.

It's absolutely pointless..

Now, let the copy / pasting begin..

 

[Fish on!]

I run completion sites and I'm pretty proud to say that we do a damn good job keeping it green.

My house has solar panels, I fish and hunt for food, nothing in my house gets wasted or goes freezer burnt. I am very conscious of the environment.

There shouldn't be a right wing or left wing. We gotta meet in the middle on this one, big oil will make the changes needed to sustain the industry, we already have been!

 

[UkeeDreamin]

We absolutely love our petroleum products, particularly us anglers with big haul vehicles and gas thirsty pleasure boats. I also believe that the majority of companies do their best to follow all of the environmental regulations required of them - thats just good business. But it is also a fact that this federal government gutted the oldest and most effective piece of environmental regulation in existence in Canada - the Fisheries Act, this gutting was done at the behest of industry and this gutting was buried within and railroaded through in an undemocratic omnibus bill. The gutting of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act occurred in the same bill.

It is this type of de-regulation for the benefit of the corporate elite at the expense of the public's land, water and wildlife resources, and the disdain for a transparent, democratic process in doing it, that has many of us upset with the Harper Conservatives. I make a point of saying Harper Conservatives, as it isn't conservative fiscal or social policy it is the specific agenda, values and ethics - or lack thereof of this particular government that I believe so many of us take issue with.

It is fact that more than 60% of Canadians do not share Mr. Harper's values or vision for Canada. Harper's Conservatives have been able to form government only because those whose social and fiscal politics fall to the centre or left of centre can't get their act together on a strategic voting system that ensures seats won in parliament reflect the fact 60+% of us, and likely more after this governments performance this past term, want better representation.

I'd also wager that a good number of fishermen who are fiscally and socially conservative must take issue with the Harper Conservatives gifting of fish, our public common property, to industry for profit at the expense of Joe Public angler.

Right now the Harper Conservatives are tracking at about 31% of popular support, followed by the Liberals at just under 30%, NDP at 26% and Green at 7%. The Liberal-NDP-Green split of the vote is tracking, yet again, to deliver the Harper Conservatives enough seats despite dismal general support to form government. Those of us in that nearly 70% who want to see change have to ask ourselves, what are we going to do to help realize change so that our values are reflected by the next government?

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[Birdsnest]

Now, let the copy / pasting begin..

Oh, the gish gallop you mean. lol

The Gish Gallop is the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of small arguments that their opponent cannot possibly answer or address each one in real time. More often than not, these myriad arguments are full of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments — the only condition is that there be many of them, not that they be particularly compelling on their own. They may be escape hatches or "gotcha" arguments that are specifically designed to be brief, but take a long time to unravel. Thus, galloping is frequently used in timed debates (especially by creationists) to overwhelm one's opponent.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

 

[Gunsmith]

Unfortunately each party has something right that makes us vote for them and a lot of bad stuff that pops up after we have elected them.
Why can't we have a party that has what we need and no bad **** that appears after elected.

 

[Admin]

Once again, a political debate that has little to no conversation about FISHERY'S related issues (see the Forum category) has deteriorated into a quagmire of who's side is right. This movie is getting old. Consider this thread finished.