Gas hot water heaters

Stosh

Well-Known Member
Anybody had a gas H/W heater changed lately? I'm considering changing a 9 year old tank (close to the end of its life). The new regs require changes that are increasing the costs dramatically. Anyone out there with a way to reduce the costs (I don't want to go electric).
Thanks
Stosh
 
I just had 2 tanks removed and we replaced them with an on demand hot water system. Increased system costs but it's the Best move I ever made! Gas Codes have changed over the last years and some gas supply components were upgraded, better to be safe than sorry.
 
barrie
Do you notice any delay in hot water supply with the on demand system? How expensive was the install? Who did you use and would you recommend them?
Thanks
Stosh
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stosh,

My water heater is on the opposite side of house to most of my plumbing, I did that when I finished bsmt. There is a waiting time, but not that much slower than the old water tanks. So we are use to it, I do notice a slight pressure drop on the hot side WHEN you first turn it on and wait for hot water, but it disappears quickly. You can also recirculate supply line but we didn't cause its a finished Bsmt. These are condensing units and produce 3 gallons of water a week, so you need to either drain into a 5 gal bucket, your floor drain or install a small vertical lift pump in a sump. I believe this unit is a 250,000 btu and the old hot water was 80,000 but. Mr craven could correct me on that! As far as pricing, I'm a General Contractor and I called in some markers from subs and suppliers, so my pricing would not reflect street value. If you want to know more details, send me a pm.
 
Here you go, advice from a person that does this every day (I am a wholesaler/designer). There are two types of water heating available to residential market now:


Static Storage: (Direct-Fired tank, or Indirect storage tank heated by a boiler)

Dynamic: On-Demand water heater, or "Tankless" Units


Static storage, for comparable installation cost will always be more comfortable, and consistent, because there is not a lot Joe the plumber can do incorrectly...
Hot water on demand (tankless units), you can get a huge delay in heating as the unit has to fire, heat the cold water, and run through the piping to the fixture in a conventional (see: "cheap") setup - this depends how far the unit is from the fixtures. There is a correct way to do a replacement with a tankless unit from a direct-fired storage tank, which is by having a recirculation line (most homes do), or better yet a small buffer tank on the hot side of the system, or a combination of the two (this is the best scenario, and VERY comfortable with unlimited hot water - I recommend it).

I do this for a living (I am a rep); I design hydronic heating systems and provision domestic water heating units and supplies so if anyone wants advice PM me, I know some good contractors that will not steer you wrong. No I can't sell to you for your home unless you are professional, but I can steer you in the right direction.


Especially when dealing with heating systems. Always rembmer... Good things aren't cheap, and cheap things aren't good... Just like fishing. The cheapest contractor is never the best, if they do something wrong (and believe me, there are plenty of bad contractors and installations out there) it usually costs more in the end.
 
My questions on this would be how much does the tankless system cost relative to the static? How long do the tankless systems last relative to the static? What are the operating cost differences? When I looked at this issue 7 years ago when we built our house, the tankless systems were significantly more from an initial cost standpoint compared to a tank system, their forecasted life expectancy was about the same and while the operating cost (i.e. the tankless systems used less gas) were lower, I wouldn't live long enough to recoup the difference in initial cost.
 
Tankless system will use less gas, but, gas is cheap. Storage is fine because the insulation they use is so good. The thing about tankless, is the reality of basically 'unlimited' hot water for a properly designed system. Installation costs and maintenance costs are more too, but I don't sell condensing direct-fired tanks, and I am no expert with how long they last to be honest. And no, you will never probably live long enough to recoup the costs! But it might be worth it for something you use multiple times a day, there is value in that :)

With the condensing tankless water heaters, unlike old conventional times, they do need maintenance and servicing because of the way they function (condensing appliances 'scale' up inside the heat exchanger over time). No way around it though. Just like anything mechanical, over a matter of time it will fail - That being said, a good tankless unit in a residential application should last up to 20 years. Some brands (see, very few) are very good. Big name brands, Bosch, Rinnai, are both solid. Navien has good marketing here but they have had their fare share of major problems in the past. If the product has a good warranty, that helps a lot when you get down the road years later.

Storage tanks now are required to be condensing, so really it is a toss up. If you do not have a hydronic heating system or a boiler (where I would put an indirect storage tank which is awesome), I would go with a tankless unit, but make sure you have some sort of a recirculation system or buffer tank or I can bet you will be miserable with having to wait 30 seconds to a minute plus to get consistent hot water to your fixtures! With recirc or buffer tank it works as a conventional system does!


My advice? Spend the extra couple hundred for a good tankless system with the right ancillary provisions or go with another storage tank if you don't want to spend to have the luxury.
I know some awesome contractors on the island and in metro van if anyone needs I can refer them.
 
I put in a Rinnai hot water system about 15 years ago. Very much impressed with it and not one service issue has came up. Unlimited hot water for a number of fixtures depending on the size of the heater, efficient and minimal space required. Only burns gas when you need it, not keeping a tank heated 24/ 7. Takes a bit longer to get hot water to the far end of house but not enough to be an issue. Also piece of mind as there is no tank to surprise you one day rusted out with water all over the floor. If building new you could minimize heating times to the fixtures by designing in more dedicated 1/2" lines then a 3/4 main as there is far less water to heat.
 
tankless is only good for cabin type stuff...


REB knows a lil about this stuff!!

i have a wall hung boiler for my house heating, and a heat exchange tank for my domestic hot water, this is the best IMO if you have hot water heat in yer house.
 
Anybody had a gas H/W heater changed lately? I'm considering changing a 9 year old tank (close to the end of its life). The new regs require changes that are increasing the costs dramatically. Anyone out there with a way to reduce the costs (I don't want to go electric).
Thanks
Stosh
Did those new regs just come out then? I got mine replaced a couple years back and don't recall it being expensive at all, meanwhile, my mom paid arm and a leg for an on demand system and I don't quite understand the excitement - seems to take longer to heat up in her kitchen (furthest from source) than a normal tank...for what, $6k?? That said, I'm sure she got swindled for a few k, but still.

Gas is where its at...any way I can avoid bc hydro regardless of how, we have done it in our home.
If you need a good gas fitter (in Victoria?) I have a good friend that is EXCELLENT.
 
From what I am seeing the prices now compared to my last replacement of a gas hot water tank are at least 100% higher. The permit fee alone that I'm being quoted is $140.00!!!!
And we think going fishing is expensive.

Stosh
 
Price gap between tankless and storage has closed a lot in the last 5 yrs.
 
Back
Top