How effective are the scuppers?

Bifmalibu

Well-Known Member
In an effort to not derail advTHXance's thread, I thought I'd post this here. And I want to point out that this is in no way meant to influence his situation. No disrespect meant.

How effective are self bailing decks at clearing water in holy **** situations? I have never been offshore in conditions where water was coming into the boat in any significant amount. If one was in that situation where water was being taken onboard, would the drains clear the water quickly enough to be the saving grace? Or are they meant more dealing with nuisance water at the dock?

Have your scuppers ever saved you at sea?
 
Short answer is yes. They clear a lot of water fast. When fishing in dads boat as a kid we took a rouge wave off the west coast of the Queen Charlotte Islands. It filled the dance floor. Im Guessing 16” of water. It cleared fast as well as the pumps were going to. Gave us all a scare as we were all alone in big seas. Fishing in 20’ rollers. It would have been disastrous if we were not in a capable boat (Eaglecaft 26’) and had we not had a self draining deck.
 
The vast majority of boats in the sport fishing fleet would be lucky have scuppers 6 inches above the water line most are less. Any higher and the deck would be have to be to high. If you take a greenie over the stern that fills the cockpit the scuppers aren't going to do ****. You better have some high capacity pumps that get rid of enough water to keep the next wave from finishing you off. Something anyone that goes offshore should plan for.
 
Green water coming over the gunwhales and into the boat. And you are out in that weather? It's not really a question of scuppers. I guess my question is why are you putting yourself and your crew into that jeopardy in the first place?
 
When I was testing my boat for fuel burn when loaded heavy, I filled up some totes with water from the washdown. When I was done I dumped them on deck. I was VERY surprised at how slow the scuppers drain water off the deck. They are primarily to clear rain water and spray... if you're taking water they will not save you any better than a couple strong bilge pumps.

To be truly effective i think you'd basically need open bottom decks like large commercial fishing boats.
 
Some interesting and informative posts here. Just to add to that conversation - the positioning of the boat to incoming waves and swell and how the operator changes the speed and tilt of the boat also has a great impact - to state the obvious.

I am always amazed - unfortunately sometimes even stunned - to see how some boat operators meet large waves @ the intersection of a river or outgoing tide to incoming wind - as seen on some FB/YouTube videos - and even when slowing down and getting waves coming in over the stern. Matching your speed to the swell speed, steering to best meet the waves while zig-zagging to reach your destination, and keeping the boats trim with the bow up and/or tilting the engine up a little verses digging into the next swell and swamping - always seemed like such common-sense things to do that I always thought it never even needed to be said - until I saw some of those FB/YouTube videos.

It seems not everyone thinks of these things. Sometimes these little things can save lives if it blows up while you are out...
 
When I was testing my boat for fuel burn when loaded heavy, I filled up some totes with water from the washdown. When I was done I dumped them on deck. I was VERY surprised at how slow the scuppers drain water off the deck. They are primarily to clear rain water and spray... if you're taking water they will not save you any better than a couple strong bilge pumps.

To be truly effective i think you'd basically need open bottom decks like large commercial fishing boats.

I agree and think most smaller boats that have scuppers are almost useless. I had them on my Striper and they were borderline depending on number of people on board and fuel load etc. Most boats the scuppers are more dangerous than they are worth if moored as well. Some makes and models are better than others for sure but most are a selling feature at best IMO. My current boat has 4" pipe as scuppers that drain directly to them at the back corners through a welded channel. They sit well above the water line and can shed a lot of water quickly. I have seen other designs similar and think a straight up gravity drain is best if you can achieve it with proper clearance to the waterline. That being said I prefer a self bailing deck over bilge pumps any day as long as they actually drain....lol
 
If your deck is high enough, your ability to shed water is only limited by the size and quantity of your scuppers. Very few bilge pumps can keep up with a 4" pipe like on @ReelSlim's boat.
 
How you tackle bigger water by operating your boat skillfully does prevent taking large amounts of water into the cockpit...but if you are dead in the water with mechanical issues those waves can break over the gunnel. As far as the comment about being out in nasty weather in the first place...if you are 50 miles offshore on a Tuna trip and the weather comes up...you still have a couple hours of travel back to shore. So you can be doing the right thing and still get into trouble.
 
I set up my boat with a crowned floor, about a 1/2" slope from the centre to the gunnels which lead to the large ping pong ball scuppers.

I was hit by a rogue wave off Long Beach that blew out my windshield glass, bending the frames and depositing about 2.5 feet of water in the cockpit. I was almost jettisoned out the back as the wave struck me in the chest over the centre console, soaking us all and stopping the boat in it's tracks.. We were still under power so i maintained about 8 knots and the water was all gone in under 4 minutes....they did what they were supposed to do, thank goodness!

This, and freak rain storms that i have seen sink boats at the dock overnight are why i wouldn't own a boat that wasn't self bailing
 
I set up my boat with a crowned floor, about a 1/2" slope from the centre to the gunnels which lead to the large ping pong ball scuppers.

I was hit by a rogue wave off Long Beach that blew out my windshield glass, bending the frames and depositing about 2.5 feet of water in the cockpit. I was almost jettisoned out the back as the wave struck me in the chest over the centre console, soaking us all and stopping the boat in it's tracks.. We were still under power so i maintained about 8 knots and the water was all gone in under 4 minutes....they did what they were supposed to do, thank goodness!

This, and freak rain storms that i have seen sink boats at the dock overnight are why i wouldn't own a boat that wasn't self bailing
Good to know, Aces. That's my setup now.
Are these the scuppers you had? https://thmarinesupplies.com/products/flow-max-ball-scupper
 
Good to know, Aces. That's my setup now.
Are these the scuppers you had? https://thmarinesupplies.com/products/flow-max-ball-scupper
Good to know, Aces. That's my setup now.
Are these the scuppers you had? https://thmarinesupplies.com/products/flow-max-ball-scupper
similar. Mine don’t come apart to clean. I replace them every 3 -4 years as the soft rubber where the ball seats in the scupper gets hard and doesn’t seal perfectly
 
Before buying my latest boat I researched some of the common issues in smaller, recreational vessels. These notes relate to the thread topic.

*Many decks on recreational vessels under 30 feet are mistakenly termed self-bailing, with good looking scuppers and nice hatches well above the load waterline. Only later one discovers that the deck drains lead to cheap hoses that drain into the bilge and not overboard.

*Modern boats are often designed with a fiberglass liner and a deck that completely covers the bilge and it has drains that look like they would drain overboard. It's just poor design to have them drain into the bilge. Boats do not sink because bilge pumps fail. They sink because of design issues and because we fail to actively ensure that the seawater will stay on the outside of the boat.

*Bilge pumps on recreational vessels are designed to remove nuisance water and minor leakage only. They provide for only limited, short-term results. They are not long-term solutions. The typical 12 volt electric pumps are meant for intermittent use. They are often poorly wired and plumbed and are usually well under the actual capacity needed for any serious demand. They are prone to plugging and failure and may be hard to access. Float switches fail. Bilge pumps and switches should be independent and redundant. Larger boats should have manual pumps installed, as well.

*The most common design problem leading to trouble is simply that hatch openings in the decks cannot be dogged down and are not fitted with proper gaskets to make them watertight. Another common design problem is that water backs up through the scuppers in bad weather and then drains back into the bilge. The pumps work but eventually they fail or the battery is discharged.

Float ball scupper *Often one sees poor design in scupper or freeing port locations. An immediate sign of a pending problem is a boat with float-ball-style scuppers. These float-ball style scuppers are installed when water would otherwise backflow into the boat. They're not designed to keep a boat afloat. The American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC) has recommended standards for the placement of scuppers, scupper sizes, and the minimum heights above the load waterline of scuppers both while the boat is static and when operating in poor conditions. One also sees scuppers that are right at the waterline and often below the waterline, though this sometimes happens when boat owners put too much stuff in the stern.

*Cockpit decks should be designed to be a minimum of four inches above the waterline but on smaller boats thats not always the case. Even when a small amount of water drains into the bilge the result can be disaster. That's because the boats may already be designed with little safety margin. Larger amounts of bilge water make a boat sit lower, compounding flooding problems. It also makes a boat increasingly unstable.

*Corrugated hose is a poor choice for scupper drains. Use polyester reinforced tubing instead. Builders seem to put hoses and thru-hulls in the most inconvenient (and inaccessible) places. If one can't inspect hoses and fittings how would one know drains are leaking or hoses are cracked until it's too late. They were designed to last perhaps 10 years but are now 15 or 20 years old. They are brittle, cracked and failing, yet we cannot see them, let alone service them.

*Outdrive universal joint and shift boot bellows should be inspected every year and replaced every third year, give or take. The rubber ages and begins to crack and leak, which may be the difference between weathering the storm or not. The gimbal bearing and gimbal housing can leak water into the bilge. Cheap plastic, corrugated drain hose should not be used unless well above the waterline. Better quality hoses are not expensive, considering their critical function.

*For most of the sinkings investigated in these reports , poor hatches were commonly to blame. They were either badly built, poorly located, or left unsealed. Scuppers must be well above the waterline. Scuppers near or at the waterline are worse than useless. A good hatch must have a positive-locking system and gaskets that are waterproof . If your deck hatches and inspection ports don't have gaskets, install them. Check drain hoses and pumps. If they are questionable, change them while you can.
 
Green water coming over the gunwhales and into the boat. And you are out in that weather? It's not really a question of scuppers. I guess my question is why are you putting yourself and your crew into that jeopardy in the first place?
because people overestimate their boats capability and/or get stuck with the notion they have to fish or it will be a bad time for them or their friends on the boat.
realistically the boats below 25 feet should not be out in more than 3ft seas. 3ft means up to 6-9 ft rogue waves in sets of 3 or standalone. a set of 3 closely spaced rogue waves 9 feet tall will roll pretty much every aluminum and fiberglass boat there is under 25 feet with outboards if it hits broadside on while the boat is stationary and the crew is fishing/not paying attention. Rule of boats is max possible seas are less than 1/5th the boat length. This also applies to larger ships.
 
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because people overestimate their boats capability and/or get stuck with the notion they have to fish or it will be a bad time for them or their friends on the boat.
realistically the boats below 25 feet should not be out in more than 3ft seas. 3ft means up to 6-9 ft rogue waves in sets of 3 or standalone. a set of 3 closely spaced rogue waves 9 feet tall will roll pretty much every aluminum and fiberglass boat there is under 25 feet with outboards if it hits broadside on while the boat is stationary and the crew is fishing/not paying attention.
Plus mechanical and electrical stuff seems to fail at the worst times. And fishing in nasty conditions is no fun for this old guy. I'd rather wait a day.
 
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