Will released fish live?

[Tugcapitan]

The Haida Gwaii fishing report thread developed an interesting argument about whether released fish will live to spawn.
Obviously handling techniques, or a lack there of will be a huge factor.
Someone posted a photo of a 52 lb chinook in post 1, and of course it got jumped on by those supporting the "let the big girls go" ...
A good point was brought up that if it was an epic battle fought to the end, that fish might die if you release it, and since your going to fill your license on a Charlottes trip, now you've killed 2 fish instead of one with the 20 lber you took after to "replace it"
Someone else said they have "studies" saying many of these released fish live.

Personally, I'm skeptical that anyone could know the survival rate of released fish. Way too many variables to consider, and how could you possibly monitor the released fish to the spawning grounds in great enough numbers to be a meaningful study?
I agree with the post that stated a long and epic battle with hooks in its mouth is going to lessen a chinooks chances of survival.
Then again, their strong survival instinct is plain to see on fish with sea lion or orca scars, or as you watch them beat themselves to a pulp jumping up the Rivers.

I've bonked fish over 50lbs, I've let ones close to that go. Loved both.
I think common sense at the side of the boat will help you determine whether or not that particular fish will live... But, will it?

Also, if you haven't been a guide, please don't bash guides for not "talking their guests into releasing the big ones" You know who you are, you don't know what it's like. Each different fish and guest will determine the proper course of action to take.
I do agree that releasing big fish is a noble pursuit.... Too bad for them that bonking them is also such a thrill...

 

[KV1]

Very well said! I have also clobbered big ones but let a lot of them go sometimes to the ire of fellow fishers. It totally depends on the individual and mortality is debatable.

 

[scott craven]

I've caught Springs with fresh bloody wounds in their bellies where seals have grabbed it.
Still swimming and feeding.
If they can survive a seal attack and carry on, they should be able to handle a clean release.

 

[Big_Shank]

If it's within a slot limit size it gets bonked and put on ice. The less times a fish is caught and released, the better it's chances of spawning are. This goes especially for those fish that are gut hooked or bleeders... If my annual quota is filled with 10-15lbers so be it, I'd rather not unintentionally kill a bunch of smaller fish searching for all the 20-30lbers.

 

[Tugcapitan]

I'm also a believer that fisherman who use less than 25 lb test line in the chuck to give the fish a "sporting chance" are doing anything but. Many of us have seen a flasher go 'swimming' past after a long line release. I have often wondered how many fish have slowly succumbed to the bottom with fishing gear attached to them.
I believe fishermen should use strong line and knots in excellent condition, so that long line releases are the result of barbless hooks, not snapped lines.
Another benefit of using 30 or 40 lb test main line is being able to get fish to the boat faster, which I believe improves their chances of survival if they are going to be released.

 

[Bugs]

It is an important discussion. The time that releasing fish probably has the most significance is when a popular fishery is catching lots of non-target fish that need to be released. Examples would be the slot limit for springs around Victoria (when significant numbers of wilds are being caught), or the Sooke fishery when lots of Coho move in and wilds are closed (particularly when folks are sorting lots of fish to find hatcheries). Another occaision would be winter spring fishing in the SOG with a 65 cm limit and most of the fish just under.

In these situations how fish are released is particularly important because you can easily end up killing a couple of times your bag limit in released fish. I find having to release fish I know are going to die ruins a day on the water pretty quick. Bad bleeders die, fish that need to be brought into the boat have a greater risk of dying, fish that get eaten by seals die, fish that snap off the flasher die. I figure if you or others are getting sealed then move and fish elsewhere, if there are lots of fish that need released eliminate the flasher if possible (also reduces sealing), use a lighter leader than mainline below the flasher, eliminate trebles (use two singles on anchovies), release fish in the water without touching them, and downsize your hooks. I think the last one is particularly important, big J-hooks on spoons seem particularly lethal at eye hooking fish.

I think most released fish live. I have worked on plenty of tagging projects where fish get netted, dipnetted, tagged, fin punched, measured, sampled and thrown back and subsequent analysis suggests only modest mortality. I have seen these fish on the spawning grounds doing there thing. However, mostly this is work done in the river, fish are likely more sensitive to handling in the ocean. Bottom line is that catch and release in some form is a reality of our fisheries and likely will become more common, so we all need to become as proficient at it as possible.

 

[finaddict]

I've caught Springs with fresh bloody wounds in their bellies where seals have grabbed it.
Still swimming and feeding.
If they can survive a seal attack and carry on, they should be able to handle a clean release.

Not necessarily R.S. The damage from slime removal may not be immediately prevalent, but the fungal infection that happens over a period of 2 -3 weeks after catch and release has a profoundly negative effect on survival.

 

[finaddict]

I think most released fish live. I have worked on plenty of tagging projects where fish get netted, dipnetted, tagged, fin punched, measured, sampled and thrown back and subsequent analysis suggests only modest mortality. I have seen these fish on the spawning grounds doing there thing. However, mostly this is work done in the river, fish are likely more sensitive to handling in the ocean. Bottom line is that catch and release in some form is a reality of our fisheries and likely will become more common, so we all need to become as proficient at it as possible.

I agree Bugs, and have worked on many of the same in both marine and freshwater. My experience is that Salmon are definitely more susceptible to C&R mortality in marine environments.

 

[scott craven]

Not necessarily R.S. The damage from slime removal may not be immediately prevalent, but the fungal infection that happens over a period of 2 -3 weeks after catch and release has a profoundly negative effect on survival.

In that case the seal bites would also remove slime no ?
I've caught them with fresh and healed bites

 

[mikep]

I am purely taking about catching large Chinook here, most of the fish under 25# can be pressured to the boat in a couple of minutes and released with the gaff in the water as long as the hook placement in the fish is not bad. Coho can also be released in the same way......


It really is amazing what a Chinook salmon can live through. I have released a number of fish over 40# and the revival process is key for a strong release. I cannot guarantee that all of the fish I have let go have survived but I do know that I have given them the best chance of survival I could. If you kill a big fish that is a guaranteed 100% mortality rate.....even if the release mortality rate is super high at 70% (which I don't agree with) there is still a 30% chance that fish will live......This is better than the 0% chance if you kill it. The key is to try and get a fish to the boat as fast as possible, there is no magic number, its not like if they go over 45 minutes they are dead, just try to get them in quickly. Use a high quality catch and release net, soft small mesh. once you net a fish allow it to chill in the net for 5-10 minutes, make sure there is good water flow to the gills. This allows the fish to cool off in a safe place after running a marathon. If its photo time lift the fish into the back of the boat with the net bag so it is fully supported. make sure you have a bucket man keeping a good supply of clean cold water on the fish and back deck to keep scale loss to a minimum and keep the gills wet. Lift the fish quickly and snap a few photos. The fish goes back into the net and back into the ocean. At this point you will have to sit with the fish for a while allowing it to fully recover. I basically hold onto the tail and cradle the fish upright until it wants to escape my hands. I usually hold onto a fish until it is really kicking hard and let it swim away. This whole process can be very time consuming sometimes taking 20 minutes for full recovery. This is not a grip and grin photo op with a torpedo at the end and hoping all is well. Anyways I believe that I have had a good success rate with this type of release and hopefully some of those fish made it back to make more big fish...at least they have a better chance of survival in the ocean than in your cooler...

Just my thoughts....

 

[OldBlackDog]

I believe DFO uses a figure of 15 % for ocean salmon.
Totally different for bottom fish.
Totally different for river caught salmon.

 

[finaddict]

It really is amazing what a Chinook salmon can live through. I have released a number of fish over 40# and the revival process is key for a strong release. I cannot guarantee that all of the fish I have let go have survived but I do know that I have given them the best chance of survival I could. If you kill a big fish that is a guaranteed 100% mortality rate.....even if the release mortality rate is super high at 70% (which I don't agree with) there is still a 30% chance that fish will live......This is better than the 0% chance if you kill it. The key is to try and get a fish to the boat as fast as possible, there is no magic number, its not like if they go over 45 minutes they are dead, just try to get them in quickly. Use a high quality catch and release net, soft small mesh. once you net a fish allow it to chill in the net for 5-10 minutes, make sure there is good water flow to the gills. Anyways I believe that I have had a good success rate with this type of release and hopefully some of those fish made it back to make more big fish...at least they have a better chance of survival in the ocean than in your cooler...

Just my thoughts....

So Mike, if survival is 70/30 or even 85/15 in marine environments, who kills more fish? - the guy who catches two and calls it a day, or the C&R guy who thinks he is having no effect on the fish since he releases all the big ones and still takes two "slot" fish. If you C&R big Chinook in marine locales all day long, who has a greater impact on the fish?

 

[mikep]

Do you go out and stop fishing after you first two Chinook every trip out, i don't just fish to fill the freezer? Of course there is mortality, there is really no way to get around that and if you cycle through enough Chinook then yes it is quite possible to kill more from releasing than your daily limit. That being said on my personal trip last summer there were four of us fishing for 10 day, averaging 10 fish per day. We retained one single Chinook on this trip the rest were CNR, if I go by 15% then we would have killed exactly our limit for the 4 people however I highly doubt that we had that many die.......The only positive side to fish dying but still being left in the ocean is that they will be consumed by the environment becoming part of the food chain. Typically when I used to guide we harvested fish that I did not think would make it, that is how my guests got to their limits. As for your last comment, I wish I could catch and release hogs all day long but typically hooking and landing a fish in the upper 30's and beyond does not happen more than once every week let alone multiples in a day. Those fish get the extra special treatment as they typically fight harder and longer. As I said earlier I do not believe that the smaller Chinook have quite the mortality rate described. Again that's just my opinion.

 

[Sharphooks]

I have to chime in here. This C&R vs. mortality topic has been beaten to death among steelhead fishermen. My rudimentary response to C&R and mortality on the river: if a knowledgeable fisherman just takes a few simple precautions, that fish will swim away unscathed.

In those "simple precautions" , I would include: no bait (roe in the case of steelhead) , reasonably stout fishing gear (min. 10 lb test line) to get the fight over in a hurry, barbless hook, keep the fish off DRY rocks, remove hook with needle nose pliers, then nudge fish back into the river with your foot (as opposed to touching it with your hands)

So now we see C&R is being practiced on the salt chuck. Good news. For wild coho, it's part of regulatory compliance, though I'm continually amazed at how some fishermen handle these fish prior to releasing them: scooping them up with a net (usually knotted braid which guarantees scale removal) and after examining the thrashing fish in a net to search for presence or absence of adipose fin, dump the fish back into the water by turning the net inside-out, meanwhile cursing the fact that it's "a wild one"....

I just saw the same behavior out on the water with an undersized spring yesterday--- the guy netted it, dumped it on the deck, slapped a tape measure on it, cursed that it didn't make legal length, then flung it overboard

In my opinion (no specific data to back up this opinion, just a few decades of a priori experience) it all seems to come down to angler education when you discuss good C&R practices on the salt chuck. First, the obvious:

Rule No. 1: To paraphrase Mikep, a released spring, no matter how brutal the treatment it receives at the catching end, has a much better chance of survival then a spring beaten over the head with a stick and thrown in a cooler

and then, this:

Rule No. 2: Treble hooks are killing machines. If you have the remotest possibility of C&R fishing for springs or coho, do the fish a favor and don't use them

Rule No. 3: Use stout gear and get the fight over in an expedient manner. The more you baby the fish, the higher the lactic acid/trauma build-up in the fish. Minimum 30 lb mainline, minimum 20 lb leader

Rule No. 4: Don"t even think of bringing the fish into the boat. Don't even think of reaching for a net. Carry a good quality gaff with a minimum meter long handle--- when the fish is alongside the boat, hold the leader in one hand so you can raise the fish's head slightly above the water surface. Slide the gaff hook down the leader until it comes in contact with the bend of the hook, then continue lifting the gaff while at the same time forcing the leader down towards the water with your other hand. If done correctly, this up-ends the (barbless) hook and will pull it free. IF using tandems hooks and the second hook is also in fish flesh, repeat the process



Yes, I know there are good quality small mesh rubberized "C&R nets" on the market and some use them for boat fishing but in my opinion, if the fish is left in the water and the release is via gaff, that is the one tried and true method of C&R that will minimize scale loss. Coming into contact with a net: not so much

I take two week long trips every summer. The logistics of such a trip force me into a C&R mode for at least the first 10 days of the trip. Every fish I catch goes back, regardless of the size. I use 40 lb test leader, 3/0 to 4/0 barbless hooks, have a gaff ready at all times. Last but not least, I keep a cotton glove handy so I can handle the leader with my left hand and not worry about getting cut by the mono

I would bet good money that as long as a sea lion or an Orca is not in the vicinity, fish released in that manner have a 95% chance of survival whether they are small, big, or in-between

If I was shown incontrovertible evidence that 30% of the springs I was releasing would die, I probably would sell my boat and buy commie-caught fish at retail

 

[Rum Buddies]

I'm too lazy to track down the study but there IS a study out there that showed about a 10% mortality on released fish. And often they didn't die right away, so even if it swims away that's no guarantee it will live.

That said...

There's a 100% mortality rate on fish you smack over the head with a wooden club...


A lot will depend on how you handle the fish once it gets to the boat.


There's guides who keep the fish in the water and just bring it out a bit for a quick photo:

Then there's a$$hats like these guys
http://peregrinelodge.com/images/blogs/large/big-butt-fish-haida-gwaii-queen-charlottes.jpg


I would say the fish in the second photo has MUCH greater risk of not recovering or developing an infection

 

[mikep]

I am certain that there are a number of fish that swim away that just don't make is Poppa Swiss, 10% is doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. That second photo is not a good representation of good C&R, however I am fairly certain that the fish above was not just tailed at the side of the boat and released. I am pretty sure it was captured in a release net, taped, photoed and then slung over the side for that photo you see there......which if done properly can be fairly safe for the fish.

 

[Bows Up]

I kill what is legal but I can fish year round (wind permitting) and it is a 10 minute drive to the launch. Fish gods give me a fish, I take it. Tend to fish one tide change and get off the water. I am very fortunate. If I had to travel to fish or could only fish a couple of weeks a year that would probably be a different thing. C&R is a PITA to me where I hope the fish I released is not the 1 in 10 that die. If a spring is close size-wise, I use a gaff and release it. Don't need the fish and the gear is back in the water faster.

It is also true that a fish that has seen a priest has a zero survival rate. I know one guy that releases almost everything he hooks. I am harder on the resource than he is.
Whatever works for someone and its legal is fine by me.

 

[Bows Up]

Hmm.. topic drift. Sorry for the hijack. Thou shalt not post late at night.