What can WE do to help save the salmon?

Discussion in 'Conservation, Fishery Politics and Management.' started by Dave S, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. Dave S

    Dave S Active Member

    There has been a lot of talk lately on what DFO needs to do to save the salmon. They do NEED to step up and make changes to their management and they NEED to base their decisions on science, not money or politics. But I have rarely heard suggestions on what we can do to save the salmon. I am interested in hearing what others have to say regarding this. Here are my thoughts on things we can do:

    -water quality is an issue in most streams, rivers, lakes, oceans.... and it is only going to get worse.... take care in what you flush down the drain, wash into the storm system, leave behind on the roads and in the water(leaks on your truck, boat, car). I imagine that water quality is a large contributer to declining numbers.

    -take only what you need. I have heard the rationale that if we don't take it, it is just going to end up in a net or on a line of a commercial boat, but this is not the way to think. Just my opinion. Be reasonable with how much you take and package well to avoid waste. I know we complain about FN dumping tons of wasted fish into the river, but if every sporty that regularly fished our waters disposed of 1 freezer burnt fish per year, that would add up to a decent amount of fish. I hope that it is not that common, but I know it happens.

    -give back whenever you can. If you harvest food from the ocean, I think it is important to do something to give back to the eco system. Even if it's just picking up a little trash at your launch, volunteering at a stream enhancement, donating money or time to a local anglers club. Anything helps and I know the large majority on here do a lot to help out, and it shows, but if you are a lurker on here and have a chance to help out in the future, take it.

    -speak up and speak out. I think this may be the most important......Inform others of the issues that our wildlife and waters are faced with, and encourage them to spread the word as well. If the opportunity arises where you can teach someone a little about fish farms, water quality, over harvesting, etc, take it. There are many people out there who are unaware of the challenges ahead of us. If you witness any act that is illegal or harmful to wildlife and waters, record and report it. Even if it`s something as simple as talking to your neighbor about washing the paint can out in the sink, or your buddy who is flushing his radiator in the driveway, speak up. Don`t need to lay into him, just let him know where those chemicals are headed. Never support unsustainable or farmed fish and tell your sister why she shouldn`t either.

    I don`t want to start any fights, just want to encourage forward thinking.
  2. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    Walkin' the walk...

    X2 Awesome post, Dave! There's the spirit.
    Maybe we can also get behind people that work tirelessly for wild salmon, like Alexandra Morton and Dr. Miller. They take a huge amount of ridicule from the vested interests - corporate and government - and I'm sure they could use a bit more support from the rec side.
    Yeah - enough fightin' - time for some serious nature lovin'.
  3. profisher

    profisher Well-Known Member

    We need to be organized and lead by some passionate and level headed people who can align us with existing parties with common goals, develop a strategy to inform the public and force government to act. This will also require money as I really feel that those who would lead this effort should be paid as so few people have the time and resources do put forth and sustain this kind of effort on a volunteer basis.
  4. Last Chance

    Last Chance Admin Staff Member

    At the end of the day, we do need a well funded organization to speak to our interests, and ensure that our side of the truth gets out there.

    Come on, more closures? Lets see:

    The ENTIRE Chinook fleet got shut down in the 90's. There are a couple of boats fishing, but that's it.

    The Rec fleet? Our catch has been slashed %60 in our area alone, let alone several other areas. Still declining fish.

    The problem is getting an answer out of DFO, who, unless their name is "Denying Fishing Opportunities", can't name a single proactive management or enhancement program in the last 9 years.

    DFO must be drug in front of Canada's version of a grand jury and made to answer as to why they have done NOTHING to protect our fishery. They saw thsi coming in 2003, that much was said at our last meeting. 9 years later, we are here with a "wild salmon only' polciy that clearly is not working.

    The department must be held accountable, and must answer to someone. Regretably, the sport sector has no clout to enforce such an answer, we need a well funded group to speak on our behalf.
  5. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    Wow - a very impressive post continuing a good theme.
    Profisher: you are entirely on task with your specification for a leader - level-headed and passionate = charismatic for the media effect and our public image - no loose cannons attacking other players or packing historical baggage. This person should also be well-connected and credible with the established stakeholders, like the D.F.O. (just suck that up) and the F.N.s. Like the Butch Cassidy clip said: "Who is that guy?"

    As far as contributing, I'm totally in. Constant recycling of the same old issues and grievances is not helping. I'm willing to contribute money when I can - regular monthly credit card or debit withdrawals are easy to set up. I'll contribute my time to get our message out - take some pressure off the salmon stocks, too. ;)

    We need an Executive Director - somebody from industry with the necessary organizational, P.R. and advocacy skills. This job profile might suit a semi-retired guy that loves fishing, too.
  6. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMt9oFkYx8g Listen to his comments on D.F.O. and how we should act...

    We have many committed sport fishers - in the thousands. If we consider that a $30 resident anglers permit is a gift, we might pay forward by donating $10 for every fish we take away - 5 cans of Lucky! That could be thousands of dollars very quickly - on the honour system. Then find the leader that we desperately need.
  7. profisher

    profisher Well-Known Member

    Just to be clear...my idea puts fish first, not any sectors wish lists. Otherwise credibility could be an issue. Obviously I wouldn't want anyone leading who is anti-fishing either.
  8. reelfast

    reelfast Active Member

    i sincerely recommend that you start reading all about what has happened in the PNW. you future is starting to look more and more like exactly what ours looks like right now. joining forces with conservation groups is in your long term best interests. you are in a position to bring information to these groups and help them shape whatever action they move forward with in defense of fish. labelling them is only going to hurt the fish and serve to identify yourself as a red neck not caring rapist of the resource. i strongly suggest you take a deep breath and join any and every conservation group in canada that you can identify focused on helping to preserve your environment and fish.

    there are really hard lessons to learn and difficult pills to swallow with regard to anadramous fish. among them is the damage, many times irreversable, done by hatcheries and the genetic modifications that result. go on line and check our seasons in washington state if you want to see your future. you are not that far away from exactly where we are right now. keeping kicking that can down the road and see what hell breaks loose for yourselves. the rec angling community has far too many experts, thats you and me, for our own good. each of us knows exactly how to fix everything and that is exactly why nothing gets fixed.

    best to turn over the reins and the dollars to big established groups who have an agenda you can agree with. we have a fine example of this right here on the pennisula of 4 small PNW conservations groups taking on the 500 pound goreillas, NOAA, NMFS, NPS, WDFW, Lower Elwha S'Klallam, and putting the breaks on yet another environmental disaster for our fish. it can be done, it takes the right mind set, dollars (yours and mine) and orginized groups willing to litigate.

    when you identify canadian groups of such stature, please post their web addresses as many of us down this way are more than willing to send bucks to organizations who take action. your letters, phone calls, ass time in endless meetings are all 'feel good' activities for you as individuals, but at the end of the day you are going to discover exactly what we already know, litigation is required and only organized groups have the fire power to carry that off.

    all the best, protect what you have and recognize that you too are going to have to sacrafice to save your resources.
  9. Little Hawk

    Little Hawk Active Member

    Great post RF! Another sagacious Yank reaching out to us Canuck bro's. Thank-you!

    I think you are right on the mark with reference to the litigation-bullet but would argue (with all due respect to the great work so many individuals & groups do for conservation) that the ideal front would not be "groups" but if at all possible - one cohesive lobby of recreational fisherman who put the long-term welfare of WILD-FISH-FIRST AND ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTHS ARE!

    Imagine for a minute if you will - nearly 500,000 united BC rec-fisherman and supporters taking a swing at the FED!

  10. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    Many of us feel that Alexandra Morton's group is one of the best: http://www.salmonaresacred.org/
    Another that's battling fish farms and the big oil lobby: http://wildernesscommittee.org/what_we_do/preserving_the_pacific_coast
    Thanks R.F., for your enlightened observations and any support you can offer.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2012
  11. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    L.H. - great post. I'm also coming around to the idea that you are right on the mark with reference to the litigation-bullet.

    However, imagine for a minute if you will - nearly 500,000 united BC rec-fisherman and and supporters who put the long-term welfare of WILD-FISH-FIRST AND ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTHS ARE - backing Alex Morton.

    She has the reputation, media presence and scientific credibility that we need. She is working with Dr. Miller and many other credible, influential people. She also has an established organization that captures a diverse group of supporters. We could add a huge boost to the great work she is already doing and then we have a hope of initiating effective litigation. The act of initiating serious litigation will slow the momentum of Harper and his buddies. They will not wait for us.

    If we wait to build an organization, establish credibility, allay the fears of other stakeholders and all that building an effective organization entails, this battle will be over. We need to be up to speed, now - environmental legislation is being gutted, Enbridge is going ahead and fish farms are expanding as we dither. Getting 500, 000 fishermen on the same page is nigh on impossible - look at this forum. The guys in the established S.F. organizations can't even agree on much.

    What we can do quickly - in days - is to encourage other sport fishermen to get behind Alex Morton. She is our best hope right now - the leader we are looking for. And let her know that we are in for the long haul. As you say, L.H. - putting our money, time and effort where our mouths are, and right NOW, when it matters most.
  12. reelfast

    reelfast Active Member

    you may choose to write a couple of polite letters asking each of the groups you identified above as to their objectives and short term plans. in fact one of you folks, many of you have the facts, figures and detail nailed, might draft such a letter on behalf of this forum. getting some addtional info from these groups is a good upfront notion as it will provide a more clear picture of the direction in which they are focused. it would not hurt to let these groups understand that you are gathering this information in an attempt to focus the rec angling community on a specific group which is willing to take action in regard to the upcoming gutting of your environmental laws.

    the 4 groups i mentioned who took on the establisment players and a tribe down this way, were making noise for some time. i wrote them a polite letter letting them know that if action, litigation, followed their notifing these players of their intentions, i would certainly send dollars and do my damdest to let every rec anglers know what they were up too. they followed through as did i. if Alex Morton and her group have this fire power and are committed, get on board quickly. if they are waffling, check out the other group(s) already mentioned. sometimes all they need to know is that the rec anglers have their backs covered.

    and, again, when you make that choice, make sure you post it up here so those of us down this way can broadcast your plans and get some dollars flowing your way. when you start an all out war, however, you also have to be prepared to sacrafice some of your own sacred cows. you can see how our seasons have been striped down to the bone. but if your objective is fish first, then each of us should be out there swinging to insure our grandkids have an opportunity to enjoy what many of us have taken for granted.

    all the best.
  13. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    Thanks again, R.F. Who's volunteering to write letters on behalf of the forum, as outlined? Englishman?
    It would be fantastic if we could put all else aside to concentrate our resources behind one group.
  14. Whole in the Water

    Whole in the Water Well-Known Member

    I agree now is the time to put aside petty differences and unite to change what is happening to damage wild salmon in BC. The time we sportfishers waste trying to sort out all our opinions and ideas is allowing those who want to build the pipeline, gut our fisheries laws and mismanage our wild salmon into extiction to do their dirty work! C'mon people lets get united and focused here and make some change!!!
  15. Gunsmith

    Gunsmith Well-Known Member

    When we go looking for support one good place to talk to is Cabela's. Before they even had a location in Canada, I had asked them for a donation for our local fish and game club and they promptly responded with the department to request from and a donation of $150. was provided.
    Just a thought.
  16. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    and a good thought it is- all the marine and sporting goods businesses will lose too, if we can't get something going to preserve our sport fishery. No fish = no lodges, guides, outfitters. No one buying boats, trailers or the trucks to tow them. No work for chandlers, marine mechanics or upholsterers. Coastal communities like Pt. Alberni to Bamfield, Campbell River to Pt. Hardy and Gold River to Tahsis will take more of a beating, after the brutal one from the forestry downturn. Just for greed - so the Norwegian fish farmers, U.S. oil barons and the rest of Harper's corporate buddies can have more. What's waiting for him if he delivers - a V.P. seat on the Enbridge Board?

    We all have relationships with some businesses that we can ask for support. I think many are just waiting for a credible organization to step up and help.
  17. Englishman

    Englishman Well-Known Member

    Foxsea, I see you have dropped a few hints here and there. I would be willing to help draft something but I do not possess the hubris to claim to speak for the entire forum. I think that formidable mantle should be adopted by a heavyweight on here who carries more credibility and linkages to the recreational fishing community at large. Even that person will have a challenge because as several posts on here have noted, there may be a lot of us but we recreational fishers cannot agree on anything, even the sub-group on this very forum! LOL:)

    Meanwhile I, like many others, already donate to Alex Morton's organisation (among others) but as everyone knows she is solely focussed on the fish feed lot issue, which is a tough row to hoe of itself. She will not have the energy and resources to take on the much broader range of issues that concern us. For that I do believe we need a new group, with a statement of principles and objectives, a committee (I know sounds bureaucratic but gotta be done! ;)), a spokesperson, and some means to handle donations, if any. As I say speaking for the forum is a tall order, let alone all recreational fishers (and BTW how do we ensure we are not duplicating and overlapping the work of SFAB and SFAC and confusing everyone?:confused:)
  18. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    You picked up what I was laying down - haha. Not too subtle...

    You bring valid points forward.* In the interest of expediency though, can we not "piggy-back" on an organization that is up and running. No offense intended to them and the hard work they do but there is some history behind SFAB and SFAC that could alienate potential supporters. As many have noted though, we do need to take action quickly - not get bogged down in creating another, competing bureaucracy. Time is not on our side (to paraphrase Mick). ;)

    ... our infighting and fragmentation works well to distract our resources away from fighting the Harper agenda. United we stand!

    Another subtle hint - is Profisher up for this? (*...a heavyweight on here who carries more credibility and linkages to the recreational fishing community at large.)
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2012
  19. profisher

    profisher Well-Known Member

    Hahh, if there were 48 hours in a day maybe. LOL I'm not the right person to lead an effort like that anyway. Maybe a part of a team but not the up front guy. I'll be getting more involved, just not sure yet what direction it will be. I'm convinced that the fight to save salmon and thus improve our situation as sport fishers will be won by a group not associated to any fishing sector. Our representatives have already tried numerous times and we never get taken seriously by the public as we are always going to be taken as biased and motivated by self interest. We need to find a conservation based group who isn't anti fishing, if there is such a thing. If there isn't then one needs to be formed. People will be more receptive to joining a group wanting to save our salmon than they will be to help sport fishermen get more fish to catch. Just my opinion.
  20. lorneparker1

    lorneparker1 Banned

    If you really want to make change, IMO, its time to get with the enviromental groups. Thats where im focusing. The SFAB and SFAC wont make the nessecary change i want in my life time. To much bearuacry. THe DFO would love us to use them for everything. They can manage the SFAB. I dont want to be managed, i want change.

    Alexandra Morton is where im starting. Passionate, EDUCATED, and knows how to get it done.

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