Watch out for hybrids

Bugs

Well-Known Member
N2013's post in the Sooke reports about a possible Chinook/Chum hybrid made me realize I should probably post here for folks to watch out for Coho/Chinook hybrids. As part of our juvenile research in the Cowichan area in 2015 and 2016 we encountered some first ocean year fish that were identified by the lab as Coho Chinook hybrids. We did not see a ton, but enough that if these fish survive to maturity some are being caught by anglers.

More of these fish were around in 2015 (in their first ocean summer)... and a lot of these would be maturing as 3 year olds this year... There will still be some around next year. If you are fishing the Strait of Georgia and you catch a funny looking Coho or Chinook that looks like it could be a hybrid take a ton of pictures and measurements and write the details down. I assume that most people would want to eat the fish, but cut off the head (with gills) and all the visceral organs and stick it in a bag and freeze it. Scrape of some scales onto paper and leave them to dry. Fire me a message and I will arrange to pick up. In particular watch out for fish where the lateral line does something funny (disappears or jacks up or down) just before the tail.
 
Cool stuff!
 
Have caught a small number of what we thought could be Chinook/Coho hybrids in past years off Sooke and 2015 does sound about right. They seemed to have the head of a Chinook and the body of a Coho, as in lacking spots. We were joking as to whether to call them Hochins or Chinhoes. Decided that to avoid any problems we would put them on the license as Chinook given the black gums and sharp teeth. It also seems that some Chinook have very few spots and sometimes few or no spots on the tail, so not sure if those ones are just a Chinook Variant rather than true hybrids..
 
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Were they actually hybrids, Bugs - as determined by DNA? - or were they ID'd by key characteristics?

Otherwise, the only real solid & reliable key characteristics between coho and Chinook are actually counting the number of branchiostegals (rays - under the jaw) or pyloric caeca.

On a somewhat related point - any one else notice that some Chinook stocks smell like yellow cedar?
 
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Yes I have noticed some do smell and taste like cedar but I always figured it was the cedar plank I grilled them ono_O
 
Were they actually hybrids, Bugs - as determined by DNA? - or were they ID'd by key characteristics?

Otherwise, the only real solid & reliable key characteristics between coho and Chinook are actually counting the number of branchiostegals (rays - under the jaw) or pyloric caeca.

On a somewhat related point - any one else notice that some Chinook stocks smell like yellow cedar?

Yes.. these were confirmed by DNA. In fact, that's how they were first caught. It was not until the genetic results that we went back to our notes and photos and saw that we had flagged some of these fish as being uncertain species ID. As our sampling is non-lethal it was unfortunately not possible to count pyloric caecae
 
Like Rockfish reported, I had about a 12 pound fish to the side of the boat off Esquimalt in 2015 that I couldn't positively ID. Had a Chinook head (black gums) but body and tail were that of a Coho (zero spots). I let it swim as it was not clipped.
 
Yes.. these were confirmed by DNA. In fact, that's how they were first caught. It was not until the genetic results that we went back to our notes and photos and saw that we had flagged some of these fish as being uncertain species ID. As our sampling is non-lethal it was unfortunately not possible to count pyloric caecae
Thanks, Bugs - that's interesting. Were they able to generate a potential watershed of origin from the DNA, too? I would guess it's from a watershed that's got both a late run of Chinook, and an early run of coho...

I've seen the occasional chum/pink hybrid - also seen a few river-spawning sockeye that look quite a bit like pinks in the body shape and size - but coloured like sockeye with a fine extended sockeye jaw....
 
N2013's post in the Sooke reports about a possible Chinook/Chum hybrid made me realize I should probably post here for folks to watch out for Coho/Chinook hybrids. As part of our juvenile research in the Cowichan area in 2015 and 2016 we encountered some first ocean year fish that were identified by the lab as Coho Chinook hybrids. We did not see a ton, but enough that if these fish survive to maturity some are being caught by anglers.

More of these fish were around in 2015 (in their first ocean summer)... and a lot of these would be maturing as 3 year olds this year... There will still be some around next year. If you are fishing the Strait of Georgia and you catch a funny looking Coho or Chinook that looks like it could be a hybrid take a ton of pictures and measurements and write the details down. I assume that most people would want to eat the fish, but cut off the head (with gills) and all the visceral organs and stick it in a bag and freeze it. Scrape of some scales onto paper and leave them to dry. Fire me a message and I will arrange to pick up. In particular watch out for fish where the lateral line does something funny (disappears or jacks up or down) just before the tail.
 
Hello, you may be interested in the Goldstream Hatchery has been actively breeding the Coho/Chinook strain. This has be occurring for approximately 5 years. This is the Second year of such returns. I'm not sure if they have been supplying Salmon stock to other River systems.
I have a clipped, (legally caught/ retained) likely tagged fish from last year, if this would help you.
Rather than "Hochins", we have labelled the numerous Hatchery crossbreeds returns as "Frankies" - Frankenstein fish.
 
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The late August September run of red spring up the Fraser has lots of sparse spotted Springs I have pictures of a couple with absolutely no spots these fish have been around for year's. In 1986 I caught a steelhead in upper Vedder with no spots now that was bizarre
 
Hello, you may be interested in the Goldstream Hatchery has been actively breeding the Coho/Chinook strain. This has be occurring for approximately 5 years. This is the Second year of such returns. I'm not sure if they have been supplying Salmon stock to other River systems.
I have a clipped, (legally caught/ retained) likely tagged fish from last year, if this would help you.
Rather than "Hochins", we have labelled the numerous Hatchery crossbreeds returns as "Frankies" - Frankenstein fish.

Not sure where you're getting your information, but the Goldstream hatchery manager is a friend of mine and he assures me that the Goldstream hatchery has NEVER been involved in breeding a coho/chinook strain. In fact, they haven't even been breeding chinook for the past two seasons because there have been no returns
 
Hello, you may be interested in the Goldstream Hatchery has been actively breeding the Coho/Chinook strain. This has be occurring for approximately 5 years. This is the Second year of such returns. I'm not sure if they have been supplying Salmon stock to other River systems.
I have a clipped, (legally caught/ retained) likely tagged fish from last year, if this would help you.
Rather than "Hochins", we have labelled the numerous Hatchery crossbreeds returns as "Frankies" - Frankenstein fish.
@Bugs I don't see any activity on this thread from you since August. Did you see this?
 
Thanks fish brain and others for the additional comments on this thread. Keates.... I would certainly be interested in photos or samples of any fish you have encountered that may be a hybrid. The most interesting thing is obviously a whole fish (as this can be used to look at identifying features such as pyloric caecae, however; photos are also useful. With genetics it is also possible to positively confirm whether a fish is a hybrid. All that is needed for this is a tiny piece from the edge of a fin placed on paper to dry. Also, I concur with bigbruce on Goldstream, I am sure that no hatchery would be intentionally breeding and releasing hybrids. For one thing most literature suggests these fish would be infertile, and it would also never be approved by DFO in the production plan.
 
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