Vancouver Salmon Classic
- Thread starter adanac
- Start date
fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
I have guided and participated in it and it's a whole lot of fun!!!
Since the derby started there have been changes year to year which have made the derby more inclusive and "participant friendly" for lack of a better term. It has changed significantly from the first and second year.
Here are the rules: http://www.pier73yachtclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/VCC-2016-Official-Regulations.pdf
It used to be held on the Labour Day weekend and now it has moved to August 21 which should coincide with a BIG improvement in fish abundance and angler participation.
I have some rule clarifications of which I will inquire with the Derby Master.
Not sure if I will participate this year or not either as a guide or participant but given the way the stars aligned last year with the weather conditions severely limiting angler efforts.... I'll wait and see!
Since the derby started there have been changes year to year which have made the derby more inclusive and "participant friendly" for lack of a better term. It has changed significantly from the first and second year.
Here are the rules: http://www.pier73yachtclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/VCC-2016-Official-Regulations.pdf
It used to be held on the Labour Day weekend and now it has moved to August 21 which should coincide with a BIG improvement in fish abundance and angler participation.
I have some rule clarifications of which I will inquire with the Derby Master.
Not sure if I will participate this year or not either as a guide or participant but given the way the stars aligned last year with the weather conditions severely limiting angler efforts.... I'll wait and see!
tincan
Well-Known Member
I'll be signing up and hoping that the weather cooperates as I'll be fishing out of a smaller (20') boat this year. I've attended in past years and it has been a good time and I think the organizers are doing a good job of continually improving it. I think the biggest change this year that will make it more inclusive (as @fishin_magician mentioned) is that you now can register per anger ($300) as opposed to the per boat ($1,500 or so) under the older rules. I think this will entice more people to sign up. I know I only plan to have 2-3 people on my boat so it would be tougher to swallow a $1,500 entry fee between 2 people.
The food, entertainment, etc has been really good in past years IMO and I trust it will continue to be so. The marina Pier 73 marina at the Pac Gateway Hotel near airport is a great venue as well. There is lots of moorage space and the venue space is awesome (huge deck and dining areas, etc). I also really like the fact that this is a catch & release derby. There really aren't many/any C&R derbies around Vancouver other than this one and it serves as a good way to promote conservation and get people to learn good C&R practices. I realize that most chinook in Vancouver that come to the boat during the year are going to be bonked but everyone out there needs to know how to properly identify species and release fish and this is a good opportunity for many to learn/perfect this skill. I'm sure all of us on the forum have seen some very poor release techniques over the years and it's not that hard to do it right and drastically increase the chances of salmon survival in the process.
Fishing off the Fraser seems slow at the moment based on recent reports but should/could be turning on soon and I think the Aug 20-21 dates are pretty prime time for this fishery. Good luck to all who enter! See you out there.
The food, entertainment, etc has been really good in past years IMO and I trust it will continue to be so. The marina Pier 73 marina at the Pac Gateway Hotel near airport is a great venue as well. There is lots of moorage space and the venue space is awesome (huge deck and dining areas, etc). I also really like the fact that this is a catch & release derby. There really aren't many/any C&R derbies around Vancouver other than this one and it serves as a good way to promote conservation and get people to learn good C&R practices. I realize that most chinook in Vancouver that come to the boat during the year are going to be bonked but everyone out there needs to know how to properly identify species and release fish and this is a good opportunity for many to learn/perfect this skill. I'm sure all of us on the forum have seen some very poor release techniques over the years and it's not that hard to do it right and drastically increase the chances of salmon survival in the process.
Fishing off the Fraser seems slow at the moment based on recent reports but should/could be turning on soon and I think the Aug 20-21 dates are pretty prime time for this fishery. Good luck to all who enter! See you out there.
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Hi Corey,
I will assume its the same as in previous years where its actually the weigh boat volunteers that do the actual releases and the handling/measuring of the Chinook. For others not ever been in the derby....the participants net the fish, leave net/fish in water and when weigh boat arrives (called on radio early in fight) then pass the net with fish still in net to the volunteers in the weigh boat for measure and release. Kind of has to be that way to get official measurements/weight and guarantee the fish gets released. Also better for health of fish to be released immediately after measurement. I know weigh boat volunteers are experienced fishers that can handle the fish with best practices in mind ( Lot more reliable than asking participants to revive a fish at the side of their boat for 5 minutes while they are chomping at the bit to get fishing again lol) One part of this derby that could improve on I think is with weigh boat wait time. In rough weather and/or hot fishing especially...... its tough though if you don't have a weigh boat every square mile! Participants can assist in this by providing an accurate/correct location lol (coordinates) early in a fight and having boat safely and efficiently prepped for having weigh boat come along side.
The new structure of the derby is now more economical however mainly as you get smaller with a crew size. In a way the new structure may kind of promote smaller crews because of that. With a per angler cost and likely smaller crews, you have more rods per person and also shared winnings increase.
I will assume its the same as in previous years where its actually the weigh boat volunteers that do the actual releases and the handling/measuring of the Chinook. For others not ever been in the derby....the participants net the fish, leave net/fish in water and when weigh boat arrives (called on radio early in fight) then pass the net with fish still in net to the volunteers in the weigh boat for measure and release. Kind of has to be that way to get official measurements/weight and guarantee the fish gets released. Also better for health of fish to be released immediately after measurement. I know weigh boat volunteers are experienced fishers that can handle the fish with best practices in mind ( Lot more reliable than asking participants to revive a fish at the side of their boat for 5 minutes while they are chomping at the bit to get fishing again lol) One part of this derby that could improve on I think is with weigh boat wait time. In rough weather and/or hot fishing especially...... its tough though if you don't have a weigh boat every square mile! Participants can assist in this by providing an accurate/correct location lol (coordinates) early in a fight and having boat safely and efficiently prepped for having weigh boat come along side.
The new structure of the derby is now more economical however mainly as you get smaller with a crew size. In a way the new structure may kind of promote smaller crews because of that. With a per angler cost and likely smaller crews, you have more rods per person and also shared winnings increase.
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
It's really nice to see catch and release derbies "springing" up. I've won a few in my day, with a best of 29 lbs in a local derby once. I just kind of lost the desire for competitive fishing as I got a little older. I would rather just go out and relax on the water now a days. It's really good to see catch and release derbies being organized. Far less pressure on the stocks, but still allows for a fun competitive event. Thanks to all involved for promoting a conservation minded fishing derby. It would be nice to see this type of derby more often. Good luck to all involved.
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
I agree that the weighing process sounds far from perfect. Chinook are very large fish, and it is difficult to do a live capture, weigh, and release without harming the fish. The fish may end up dying as a result. I would rather see a fish quickly played and released, as this is the least stressful on the fish. However, at least with a derby like this the fish has a chance at survival. Bonk and weigh derbies put huge pressure on our dwindling resources. To bash this type of event does a disservice to all involved. Their heart is obviously in the right place, with conservation being a primary concern. Yes there will be mortalities, but not the %100 mortality that takes place in Bonk and weigh derbies. Derbies place a huge strain on fish resources, this is a way to allow for derbies to be held without (hopefully) harming the resource significantly. One lower island derby was recently canceled because of concerns over fish abundance, and another had to be rescheduled because of restrictions in place because of low returns. This allows a derby to take place without a %100 mortality to the fish. This type of derby should be encouraged not, bashed. Hopefully the weigh and release process can be improved over time to have the greatest chance of survival for all fish captured.
Give the organizers a break. The days of the Wild West where everyone kills everything they feel like whenever they want are long gone. Conservation minded derbies need to be encouraged. Good on the organizers for trying to hold an event with less impact on fish stocks.
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Thank you for emphasizing this point TBG. I have never understood why some seem to react as if a catch and kill derby is somehow less of a conservation concern than giving the fish a decent chance at survival. I know every Chinook I have bonked/killed had zero chance of survival ;-)
If a fish has to be held waiting in a net to be weighed it will add stress ( to the fish I am referring here ) however I will add that most smaller "non-contender" size Chinook would be shaken off without the need for a weigh boat and measure......hence faster release. The larger Chinook are hardier than the smaller guys as well ....
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
Good on you guys for promoting a catch and release derby. Not trying to side track, or hijack this thread, but I think there is another benefit to this kind of derby that is rarely brought up.
Cheaters. Whenever there is a derby with a large prize at stake it brings out the Cheaters that will do anything to win one of the big prizes. All derbies have rules, and the Cheaters don't follow them. They will often run to areas with far better fishing to have a better chance at bagging a winner. With the live weigh system all fish have to come from an area in bounds to be weighed. I have participated in local derbies that had large prizes in the old days and know that cheating was rampant. I went to weigh in 3 fish in the Curtis Lumber derby in the old days and knew immediately that the Tyee in first place was a cheater fish when I took one look at it. I read in the paper six months later that the first and second place fish were determined to have been frozen from testing done on the tissues. Both fish were of course disqualified, but when ever big prizes are at stake the Cheaters will be out in full force. There's even stories of guys showing up at the weigh station for the Sun free derby in a cab with big springs purchased down at the docks trying to claim they caught it locally that day.
At least if you participate in a derby like this you know that the fish was caught legally on derby day within the derby rules. That is a lot more than you can say for the big prize bonk and weigh derbies. A good percentage of those fish are cheater fish that are weighed in I'd wager to say. This type of derby gives you confidence that everyone is playing within the rules, and that's the way all derbies should be. There's no place for Cheaters in sporting events of any kind.
fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you're trolling this forum KV1. I'll bite however.
Perhaps you should take up another sport KV1. $300 includes moorage, dinner and 2 fisherman's breakfast and participation. That's cheap and given the prizes involved you should probably pick up some other form of recreation that saltwater salmon fishing. Perhaps enjoy flossing and snagging on some local lower mainland River.l. Entry by a boat used to be $1500.
As far as fish dying a few hours later that is unfounded and I have spoken to many a DFO and Scientist over the years. Carcas recoveries in tagged fish have been observed at over 80-90% in many cases. The carcasses which were not recovered may have been caught by someone else, eaten by whales, seal, sea lions or met death at the hands of some other cause. Coho survival has been good to excellent if released properly.
Mortality and impact on fish stocks with 30-62 boats over 16 hours rod time in this derby is effectively negligible given that there could be 100-400 boats out if the fishing is as good or as insane as it was last year.
Lodges on the North Coast, West Coast and Haida Gwaii catch and release 4 of the 5 species ALL DAY LONG ALL SEASON... I know, because I've done it for 120 days straight over several seasons.... GMAFB!!!! There are many lodges which just single guests are playing and releasing upwards of 30 Chinooks a day.
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TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
If the weigh boat was notified when the fish was hooked, hopefully they get to the boat before a large spring is even landed. A derby winner can take quite a while to bring to net. If the fish is not kept in the net for long hopefully it survives release. Certainly this is not a perfect system, but it definitely has a far higher percentage of survival than bonk and weigh (or bonk and eat) .
If you fish for food, I think FM is right you should look for something else to do. You can buy any food in the supermarket for a fraction of a percentage of what an ocean caught Salmon costs you. Factor in tackle, boat purchase, maintenence, insurance, repairs, fuel, travel, accommodations, etc, etc, etc and any Salmon you catch has cost you hundreds of dollars per pound. Perhaps that last fish you caught and ate was one that another angler was kind enough to return to the ocean. So, I wouldn't be so quick to slag off guys that actually try to be conservation minded.
A lot of guys are just philosophically opposed to catch and release in the ocean. I don't know why this idea is so hard for a lot of guys to come to grips with in the chuck. In freshwater fishing most guys practice catch and release pretty regularly. Most guys in the chuck cry and moan if they're forced to release a Salmon by regulations. You better start coming to grips with how to release a Salmon because regulations are going to require it far more frequently in the future, or perhaps just go to Safeway if you're only fishing for food (it's far cheaper).
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fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
I am not angry. Derbies are stupid? Interesting argument/philosophy. One the high bar has been met, say a 25 pounder is required to be in the money, a 15 pounder is going to be bonked. It is out of the money and prizes.
Scale loss is minimal when a contender is handled correctly... I've caught and released many a fish with but a little scale loss and catch and release nets are things of beauty.
I'm not naive... I have based my statement On FACT of which you have no knowledge as clearly you don't catch and release often.
Get out there and catch yourself some fish and let those who want to enjoy the sport by promoting catch and release and raising funds and awareness for a great cause in this event be.
Salmon are very hearty and you would be surprised what they survive and can Survive. wild salmon are survivors.
If you want to be a rabble rouser, then by all means do so elsewhere with your clandestine ideas. Pick on fish farms ffs. Not us and not the Pacific Salmon Foundation and the other great sponsors of this event.
Lots of salmon out there with more than just scale loss....I have caught many over the years with either open or scared over wounds inflicted by bothe whales and sea lions. Some of these fish had wounds that were very large and deep...but still actively feeding and fought strong
fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
Me too. including injured gills and half dead gills.
getbent
Well-Known Member
Remember the high percentage of put and take fish that we actually catch... Your choice to put or take... And I agree salmon are much tougher than we think... Same in regards to healed up massive wounds. Proper revival of a fish that you thought was done is amazing to see when they rip away.
Fixit
Well-Known Member
i volunteered as a measurer in my friends boat the last few years. -black 28ft huricane zoadiac.... its a fast boat -65mph, every bit of that was used to get to the boat/fish asap
yes we have had some fish die, but ive also released and been able to revive a few i wasnt sure about, and let them swim off.
after a few big fish are weighed, many people would cancel us - "small fish" and release it themselves.
yes we have had some fish die, but ive also released and been able to revive a few i wasnt sure about, and let them swim off.
after a few big fish are weighed, many people would cancel us - "small fish" and release it themselves.
BCTony
Active Member
To argue that catch and release is a waste of time is naïve. I come from a background in freshwater fishing where catch and release methods have improved dramatically in my lifetime. Knowledge on how to handle fish, knotless mesh landing nets, soft unhooking mats (to protect fish damaging themselves thrashing on stone banks) and weigh-nets has led to a situation where known fish are able to survive healthily over long lifetimes – carp over 40 years – during which there may be multiple captures. With some known big fish multiple captures each year! By comparison catch and release methods for saltwater are in their infancy. It is more difficult in a boat than on a river or lake bank. Unhooking at the side of the boat is probably the best but not so satisfying with a large specimen where naturally one would like to weigh accurately and photograph. I release 95%+ of the fish I catch and I like to believe that the majority survive. Salmon are not as hardy as some freshwater fish I have encountered but if they are not bleeding and swim off strongly well that is a good start - and certainly a far better chance than if bonked!
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Well apparently everyone but me is an expert on the mortality rates of fish. I was merely stating a fact. If a person goes fishing for the purpose of keeping his catch, an honest fisherman goes out catches a few fish legally lets the undersize or restricted fish go and once he's satisfied that he's caught what he can realistically eat without wasting anything departs the premises while still having a great time. If however a person goes out for the shear sport of it your no different than a hunter who shoots a lion takes the head and leaves the rest to the vultures. Let's not pretend that fish caught and released are done so with white cotton gloves and a soft cushion. They are released as best as can be without netting or bringing them in the boat often hooked in gills or eyes and sometimes bleeding. You are fishing for money period not food not substinance but bragging rights and money. Not very sportsmanlike if you ask me. Shoot away!
