Thousands of 10-pound Atlantic salmon, catch as many as you want!

Discussion in 'Conservation, Fishery Politics and Management.' started by mcallagan, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. Birdsnest

    Birdsnest Well-Known Member

    That goes both ways agent. If those fish were so diseased as you perceive they would be dead.
    keeping in mind that atlantics are far more venerable to pacific viruses that pacific stocks.

    As far a Atlantics reproducing well if they haven't yet given all the historical attempts then the likely hood is pretty much next to zero however like in this video there is a chance, however minimal it is I know the agent shares the same reaction.

    Historical Atlantic Salmon Introduction to the West Coast:

    More info related to escaped atlantics

    "In summary, the scientific evidence indicates that escaped Atlantic salmon, due to their behavior and domestication, are not likely to compete on par with native salmon. Atlantic salmon do not appear to prey on native salmon and appear to make limitedutilization of natural food. The infectious diseases found in Atlantic salmon have originated from natural reservoirs, i.e. other fish, and are not likely to represent the threat of a new exposure to native fish."
  2. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

  3. agentaqua

    agentaqua Well-Known Member

    Ya, you are right dave - after 40 years - we do know some of the lack of groundtruthing, Dave. Like the lack of baseline conditions - the lack of science on the siting criteria - the lack of an environmental assessment, etc.

    IHN is - as you stated - a Pacific disease. There are others - such as PRV and ISAv that were not. I am using the past tense - because we do have numerous positive PCR tests indicating ISAv is now here - and PRv is rife in fish farms - and those Atlantic couch potatoes are fed - so they can carry higher levels of PRv and not either die or get picked-off.

    So - like you say - Atlantics could pick-up IHNv from Pacifics - but Pacifics can and do get more virulent introduced diseases from farmed Atlantic stocks. I don't think I would lightly dismiss the potential impacts of those diseases on wild Pacific salmon by selectively stating that: "What is more likely to happen is these Atlantic's will pick up IHN from our Pacific's"
    It seems you and Dave are borrowing script from the same PR script writer, BN.

    There is also a discussion that needs to be pointed-out between "vulnerable" [SIC venerable] and "virulent" - 2 very different effects. Vulnerable means "susceptible" - which may/may not include morbidity/mortality. Those effects show in "virulence" - or in how damaging the effects of getting sick might be.

    Virulence of a disease-causing organism is selectively elevated where there is the situation of having a disease vector impacting on a protected host population that is fed and kept away from predators that would run down the sick ones and eat them - like in fish farms.

    So fish farms genetically screen for and increase for high virulence diseases and increase virulence in viruses over time.

    What that means is that there is instead increased mortality when that disease is released on naive stocks that don't have the same safeguards as farm fish.

    In other words - it is worse when fish farm fish give diseases to the wild stocks.

    And yes - you are of course right - then the wild stocks would either die or be picked off - and nobody would be the wiser - out of sight and out of mind for some - but one would instead wonder why so few fish came back that year.
    except for those areas where steelhead are at low numbers...
    Ya - other fish from the ATLANTIC - which is a real problem when new diseases are released onto naive or new populations/species - like in the PACIFIC.
    tincan likes this.
  4. OldBlackDog

    OldBlackDog Well-Known Member

  5. cuttlefish

    cuttlefish Well-Known Member

    I don't post many but I feel compelled to post this fish photo.

    Attached Files:

  6. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    Great just great.:mad:
  7. Birdsnest

    Birdsnest Well-Known Member

    bones likes this.
  8. bones

    bones Well-Known Member

    WOW, way worse than the storms in the early 90's. we had the same structures. but only lost the nets and deck boards. that thing looks like a pretzel
  9. fogged in

    fogged in Well-Known Member

    Is your statement a fact, or an assumption?
    "we know that (transmit a disease to Pacific's) hasn't happened in 40 odd years of salmon farming here on the Pacific coast"
    Please clarify
  10. agentaqua

    agentaqua Well-Known Member

    Hard to know if you were being sarcastic or not OBD. Actually - they were (emphatically) *NOT* all "disease free" imports. That came out in the Cohen Commission and was debated on these forums a few years ago...
  11. fogged in

    fogged in Well-Known Member

    Is that photo fake
    We have been told Farmed Atlantic Salmon only eat pellets. Won't eat bait fish or SMOLTS that might find there way into the net pens that are lite at night (or if they escape I assume)
    Dave and Birdsnest can clarify this for us.
  12. cuttlefish

    cuttlefish Well-Known Member

    tincan and islandboy like this.
  13. cuttlefish

    cuttlefish Well-Known Member

    Yep, looks like anchor tackle failure.
  14. Dave

    Dave Well-Known Member

    Haha!! Let me ask you a question … don’t you think if indeed it was shown a disease was transmitted from a farmed Atlantic to a wild Pacific it would have been plastered on the internet first, this site second?

    Jeez man, there are people making their living looking for this link and they haven’t found it. As usual this is a knee jerk reaction from the anti’s but the reality is wild Pacific’s, and us, have far bigger problems to worry about.
    bones likes this.
  15. agentaqua

    agentaqua Well-Known Member

  16. fogged in

    fogged in Well-Known Member

    So it's safe to say your claim is an assumption.
    Wild salmon do die from disease but you assume farmed Atlantic salmon has nothing to do with it.
    same with sea lice???
    You assume fish farm sea lice do not kill wild salmon smolt
    Same with smolt who might stray into your pens.
    You assume Atlantic salmon will not eat them.
    All assumptions?
    Fears with no basis in your opinion
  17. Admin

    Admin Admin Staff Member

    Cleaned up the personal BS in this thread yet again. There are plenty of threads that have debated the fish farm disease topics to death so let's stick to the facts surrounding this event for this thread. For those of you who have engaged in this never ending disagreement of who's "side" is right in this debate (and you know who you are) stay away from the personal attacks and posting constantly trying to "convince" everyone you are right.
    fogged in likes this.
  18. agentaqua

    agentaqua Well-Known Member

  19. agentaqua

    agentaqua Well-Known Member

  20. cuttlefish

    cuttlefish Well-Known Member

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