This is frightening

Discussion in 'General Open Forum' started by fish brain, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. fish brain

    fish brain Crew Member

    I am all for stiffer Drunk driving regulations, but this has huge potential for abuse.

    Canadians could now be charged with drunk driving — even if not drunk, lawyers warn
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    Even drinking within 2 hours after you've stopped driving can get you charged
    John Lancaster · CBC News · Posted: Jan 11, 2019 3:41 PM ET | Last Updated: January 11
    A tough new impaired-driving law that came into effect late last year is 'a breach of the charter,' says Toronto criminal defence lawyer Calvin Barry. (CBC)
    Canadians could now face criminal charges for driving with illegal amounts of alcohol in their system, even if they were stone cold sober while behind the wheel, under tough new impaired driving laws passed by Parliament, according to criminal defence lawyers.

    Bill C-46, which came into effect last month, gives police wide-ranging new powers to demand sobriety tests from drivers, boaters and even canoeists.

    Police no longer need to have any reasonable grounds to suspect you're impaired, or driving with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of more than .08, which is 80 milligrams of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, before demanding you submit to testing.

    Refusing the test can result in a criminal charge.

    But even drinking within two hours after you've stopped driving or boating could now get you arrested, if your BAC rises over .08

    Defence lawyer Daniel Brown says part of the bill may be unconstitutional. (CBC)
    Law is unconstitutional, lawyer says
    "I think anyone should have a problem with this legislation, because it's unconstitutional," Toronto lawyer Daniel Brown said.

    When introducing the bill, federal Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould said the law would help crack down on people who consume large quantities of alcohol in a short period, then drive or boat, hoping to get home before the alcohol is fully absorbed into their systems.

    Previously, if drivers could prove they weren't yet over the legal limit when they were stopped by police, a court could find them innocent.

    The new law removes that defence.

    "Its primary purpose is to eliminate risky behaviour associated with bolus drinking, sometimes referred to as drinking and dashing" Wilson-Raybould told Parliament.

    But Brown calls the law a solution for a problem that rarely existed and claims it will "criminalize Canadians who have done nothing wrong."

    He points to number of scenarios where people park their cars with no intention of driving anytime soon, then start drinking.

    "You can imagine a situation where a husband and wife are out together. The husband drives to the bar knowing the wife will be the designated driver on the way home, and she's not going to be consuming alcohol that night. The husband drinks alcohol and is now over the limit and has driven a vehicle within the previous two hours," said Brown.

    Brown says police can legally enter the bar, or wait for the couple to leave the establishment and demand a breath sample from the husband.

    "Even if he's walking to the passenger side of the car, if he is now over 80," added Brown, he could be arrested.

    Arrest has serious consequences
    An arrest for driving over the limit comes with an automatic 90-day driver's licence suspension and potentially increased insurance premiums. Those who fight the criminal charge in court would likely have to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees as well.

    According to several lawyers canvassed by CBC News, police can come to your home up to two hours after you stopped driving or boating to test your sobriety.

    RCMP Const. Raymond Lee speaks with a motorist while looking for impaired drivers during a roadside check in Surrey, B.C. A Toronto lawyer says a bill that toughens impaired driving laws is 'a breach of the charter.' (Darryl Dyck/Canadian Press)
    Potentially complicating matters is the fact the charge is considered a "reverse onus" in legal terms. Essentially, that means police don't have to prove your BAC was over the limit when you were driving, or boating two hours earlier.

    It's now up to you to prove you were sober.

    It's unclear if anyone in Canada has been arrested under the new two hour law yet, but lawyers CBC News has spoken to insist any such case will be fought all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada to test the law's constitutionality.

    And Ontario's Criminal Lawyers' Association has warned the government the law could result in thousands of wrongful convictions.

    'Fear mongering,' MADD says
    But Andy Murie of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) says lawyers have got it wrong and accuses them of "fear mongering."

    Murie, who is not a lawyer, insists police still need probable cause to demand a sobriety test.

    "Only if [police] suspect that you've committed an offence of drunk driving and they are following the investigation, and that investigation took them to your house or your bar" can they demand a sobriety test, he said.

    Murie says a spot check would be an exception, and police can legally test everyone stopped.

    Toronto criminal defence lawyer Calvin Barry, who has defended hundreds of drunk driving cases, says MADD has it wrong.

    "Police do not require reasonable suspicion any longer," Barry told CBC News..

    Barry also warns Canadians they can be arrested and charged within the new two-hour time frame if their BAC has risen over the limit — even if they had been sober when they parked their car and planned to take a cab or transit home later.

    "That is just a flagrant contravention of one's civil liberties and a breach of the charter," Barry said.
  2. casper5280

    casper5280 Well-Known Member

    StormTrooper likes this.
  3. Fish Camp

    Fish Camp Well-Known Member

    Nothing new about this other than the police can stop you anywhere at anytime and can detain you.the law of "care and control of a vehicle after alcohol" has been around for decades.
    StormTrooper likes this.
  4. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    I hope it takes more people off the road. If you have nothing to hide why worry?
    alyaz and StormTrooper like this.
  5. ziggy

    ziggy Well-Known Member

    Make more sense if you told people not to drink two hours before they drive rather than 2 hours after lol. Seriously I thought the current law was pretty effective, not sure what precipitated the need for this change, other than lawyers making other lawyers rich? Was there some concern too many people were sneaking through roadside checks?

    I’m guessing this will somehow be related to the problems they anticipate with catching people under the influence of drugs. Most cops can pretty accurately assess if someone’s drunk or been drinking!
  6. fish brain

    fish brain Crew Member

    It's the two hours after part I don't like. I'm lucky enough not to be part of any persecuted minority. But I would be sorely pissed off if the police arrived at my house two hours after I came home from somewhere and asked for a breathalyzer. Or similar to the article, drove to the pub to watch the upcoming Superbowl with my buddies, not intending to drive home, but being asked for a breathalyzer and possibly charged none the less. It will probably never happen to me as a pasty, middle aged, white boy. But I'm sure it will happen to someone who doesn't fit my profile
  7. wishiniwasfishin1

    wishiniwasfishin1 Well-Known Member

    That’s honestly the worst argument I have ever heard and it’s dangerous. ‘ I have nothing to hide so I will gladly give up my rights to privacy and unreasonable search! Sure boys come on in!’...
    papalorge, ziggy, trophywife and 2 others like this.
  8. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    It's more dangerous to share the road with people drinking and doing drugs. Anything that makes it easier for cops to do there job I am all for it. Again I think the most outspoken have something to hide.

    I lost lots of friends to this so I am not sympethetic.

    Carry on...
    noluck likes this.
  9. wishiniwasfishin1

    wishiniwasfishin1 Well-Known Member

    Sorry to hear about your friends and agree there is no excuse for driving drunk or stoned but I will happily admit to having few drinks when I get home... this makes absolutely no sense
    paguy likes this.
  10. chromatose007

    chromatose007 Active Member

    Think about this: You finish work or some other activity. You drive to a liquor store buy some beer or alcohol. Say you are spotted by a cop who has had a bad day, he runs your plates. You go home settle in drink a few beer while watching the game. An hour and half later the cop shows up at your door demanding you blow. What can you do???
    cracked_ribs and fish brain like this.
  11. pescador

    pescador Well-Known Member

    It's an infringement on personal freedoms. Thats the issue. It's got nothing to do with the issue of DUI in my view.
  12. Normfish

    Normfish Active Member

    Imagine coming home after a hot day on the water fishing all day drinking water. Your home,washing down the boat having a beer. The cop shows up and fines you.
    Who makes these stupid laws, and who is even stupider to pass them ?????????
    chromatose007 and cracked_ribs like this.
  13. Carmanah

    Carmanah Member

    All the new laws have been made pretty much to close the loop holes everyone was beating system with before. As long as you don’t flee the scene of an accident and proceeds to go home and get wasted immediately after you should be fine.

    I am not defending it I think it’s ridiculous for all the reasons previously stated, but I also think it’s ridiculous how many people in BC who have been charged with an impaired or gotten off of one with a technicality.
  14. Rain City

    Rain City Crew Member

    My thoughts exactly. How many guys have gotten off because they take off after running someone over knowing if they can get to a bottle before a cop finds them then they're off scott free. "I was stressed out so I had 5 shots of vodka" :mad:
  15. the fog ducker

    the fog ducker Well-Known Member

    i hear numbers for driving under the influence are way down , minimal of what it use to be ,
    even with this newer aggressive spotcheck system in place ,most would agree , it was crazy back in the day,,,
    why not go fight a bigger problem , get these killer drugs off the streets , drugdealers .....
    the amount of OD's are off the charts ,kids dying every weekend !!
    a fraction of them a brought to the public's ears

    there not coming in my fucken house lol , gd luck with that

    halimark and Rain City like this.
  16. ziggy

    ziggy Well-Known Member

    Maybe then the law should be amended to be more specific and only apply to situations where erratic driving behaviour was either observed by police or witnesses,or injury, or damage occurred. Sadly I find myself siding with the Legal community( I know, who’d have thought) against this ill thought out change! When sweeping powers are granted that impact the general population, where instead , specific amendments could be made to current laws to close loopholes, everyone loses. I don’t drink and drive nor do I ever have even one drink when boating. But I also believe that there needs to always be a balance between citizens rights and authorities powers.
    fish brain and Rain City like this.
  17. fish brain

    fish brain Crew Member

    Then they should make leaving the scene a crime where you can loose your license and go to jail, if that's the problem. Violating a persons right to have a beer or smoke a joint if they are done driving for the day is not the answer they are looking for
    cracked_ribs likes this.
  18. fish brain

    fish brain Crew Member

    The Opioid crisis is a separate and very real problem that will not be solved by a breathalyzer when you are done driving or boating for the day.
  19. Rain City

    Rain City Crew Member

    Good point. There is literally no reason to ever leave the scene of an accident. Automatic guilty charge.
    trophywife likes this.
  20. the fog ducker

    the fog ducker Well-Known Member

    all so rediculous ,

    i know a few good cops , and trust me , there poundin beers as much as us on our down time ,
    so , i guess what this means , no drinkin on any days after you operated a vehicle ??

    never said it was ,
    showing up to someones house with a breathalyzer when they just put up there feet , after a day on the water ,
    or a hard day at work , tells me someones got way to much time ,its quite comical

    lets do something a little more productive is all i getting at...
    not rocket science finding out whos supplying kids with this killer shit on the streets ,

    fishin solo likes this.

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