The State of Fraser River Fisheries, A Conversation with Dr Eric Taylor

[wildmanyeah]

The State of Fraser River Fisheries, A Conversation with Dr Eric Taylor

 

[Powerset]

It certainly appears as though we need to pay a huge price for 50 years of neglect miss management and exploitation, it appears that a lack of a cohesive strategy amongst governmental departments is the only reason were still open at all, a cohesive strategy Seems almost impossible because of very powerful lobbying groups based in each camp. Catch and release is going to be something we are going to have to get used to in British Columbia

 

[Whole in the Water]

We can also do more chinook enhancement with newer hatchery techniques and technology that will increase chinook numbers and survival rates. Unfortunately, DFO has been brainwashed by ENGO's that all enhancement and hatcheries are bad and are still reducing funding to existing hatcheries and are not interested in any new ones. If WA state felt the same way there would be few chinook left. If this sad state continues the SRKW are in a very bad way!

I agree that hatcheries are not the best long term solution, but their merits cannot and should not be ignored in the short term while habitat and harvesting issues get improved and sorted out. Unless we the people can change the politicians minds, or vote a new Fed. Govt. in, we will have to resort to privately funded enhancement projects and hatcheries.

The simplistic idea that the flawed DFO Wild Salmon Policy (i.e. DFO doesn't need to do anything, or spend any $ to improve chinook numbers and they somehow magically get better on their own despite ever increasing human populations and negative impacts) will somehow miraculously produce more wild chinook is a failed policy for the last 10+ years that has only made things worse. Once again it is concerned citizens that will need to step up and do the work needed to help solve this problem that govt, can't and doesn't want to. My 2 bits.

 

[Fishmyster]

Interesting video. Seems like ubc is more interested in people management than aquatic ecology which endangered salmon need to survive. I might have missed it but at the end they talk about importance of biodiversity I never can seem to find any discussion about freshwater chemistry or the loss of biodiversity in coastal stream ecology? Guess just like PSF a global insect decline and supporting ecology for endangered salmon in freshwater are just not worth discussion. It's all about managing the people. Wonder what kind of biodiversity Eric Taylor feels should be expected in say the Campbell river or if it's would be of importance to fish? LOL

 

[GLG]

Just not seeing what your seeing.

 

[Fishmyster]

Just not seeing what your seeing.

Of course your not seeing it silly. You have to go outside to see the loss of ecology!! You also seem mistaken with the Campbell river which the above video is from and the Quinsam river which your pH graph is from. Two different streams. Here is a video from Quinsam on the same day.

Quinsam does appear to be doing a fair bit better than Campbell. Have a look at China creek!! This is more like what an invertebrate assemblage should look like.

 

[GLG]

Campbell and Quinsam are in the same watershed so they should have the same influence on pH from the snow and rain. Your own evidence should make you wonder if your acid rain idea has any merit. To me this is telling that you can't make that link.

 

[Fishmyster]

Did you ever look at the videos with the real world situation of missing ecology in major salmon streams? Forget what my theory is and tell me why Campbell and Gold rivers have so little ecology and China creek has lots? I know it’s not a graph but can anyone understand a video?

 

[GLG]

Did you ever look at the videos with the real world situation of missing ecology in major salmon streams? Forget what my theory is and tell me why Campbell and Gold rivers have so little ecology and China creek has lots? I know it’s not a graph but can anyone understand a video?

Again your own observations of the difference between systems should give you some pause as to what is going on other then your idea that it's the pH of the rain and snow. By your own admission the issue is local but yet your your idea should affect a much bigger area. Could it be that the issue is early ocean survival like Dr. Eric Taylor and others that are qualified to opine on the subject.

 

[Fishmyster]

Again your own observations of the difference between systems should give you some pause as to what is going on other then your idea that it's the pH of the rain and snow. By your own admission the issue is local but yet your your idea should affect a much bigger area. Could it be that the issue is early ocean survival like Dr. Eric Taylor and others that are qualified to opine on the subject.

I have never stated atmospheric deposition is just local. It is a global issue. Do you remember the "More than just salmon and whales" thread? There is a global insect decline that been happening. Fish populations in Alaska have also been in decline where there are no ff's. Juvenile S/H and salmon eat insects and our local streams have lost insect populations. I personally watched all the ecology get washed out of the local streams in the mid 1990's. How hard is it to figure out what is happening?? It appears that at UBC, DFO, MOE and PSF it is much easier to just ignore issues in bottom up salmon ecology than it is to blame the ocean for everything. Everyone seems to be more focused on managing people than attempting to get to the bottom of the situation.

I find it odd that all the salmon experts out there continue to "avoid at all costs" the investigation of freshwater ecology!! If you just look away it mustn't be happening eh!! Bottom up salmon research starts in the ocean. lol. Regardless of what my theories for the decline the videos are concrete evidence there IS freshwater ecology collapse here and it is in what used to be good salmon streams. How come all the QUALIFIED professionals continue to ignore the bottom up ecology in freshwater??

 

[terrin]

The use of Fire retardent in the watersheds has not helped either and its been goimg on for many decades. https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/1002990

 

[Fishmyster]

The use of Fire retardent in the watersheds has not helped either and its been goimg on for many decades. https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/1002990[/QUO

Another fine example of laboratory tests used to conclude into field assumptions. Is there any studies of fire retardant being done on the Fraser river? If anyone believes fire retardant is what has been killing the upper Fraser then what would they assume the rest of the streams like Gold, Stamp, Campbell, Nimpkish and all the Alaska streams are in decline from?

 

[GLG]

How come all the QUALIFIED professionals continue to ignore the bottom up ecology in freshwater??

That's because all those qualified professionals have a mountain of evidence that shows them that the issues are related to the first year of life in the ocean for salmon.

 

[Fishmyster]

That's because all those qualified professionals have a mountain of evidence that shows them that the issues are related to the first year of life in the ocean for salmon.

Hahaha. Now are you going to provide the same report you did before where in the report stats show the survival variable in fw is far greater than marine survival but the conclusion paragraph says something different???

 

[GLG]

Hahaha. Now are you going to provide the same report you did before where in the report stats show the survival variable in fw is far greater than marine survival but the conclusion paragraph says something different???

I would but you don't believe in graphs so that would be a waste of my time.

 

[Fishmyster]

I would but you don't believe in graphs so that would be a waste of my time.

Please show it again and I will point out the obvious error in belief you have. What you call a "mountain of evidence" was concluded to state something like
"There is little evidence to indicate fw issues are the cause of salmon declines" in the report. "Mountain of evidence" is your word and "little evidence" is the wording in the report conclusion. The graphs also indicated opposite of what you are claiming. Lets look at those graphs again and compare our graph reading abilities.