"The Double Whammy"

[Charlie]

All I can say… my little article, is starting to get some attention.
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13374&whichpage=1

Both Ian Roberts (Marine Harvest) and Alexandra Morton are reading and responding. They certainly bring some knowledge, insight, and validation to my questions! I was surprised and delighted both responded and are in this conversation! Maybe,WE will find some answers to our questions? Be them, good, bad, or ugly!

In case you missed it... both are reading and responding to this! If you have questions, now might be the time to ask!

This is my last post: http://www.killfish.ca/MegaBites/2009/09/12/465/
If you go to Ministry of Agriculture And Lands “Fish Health Report 2007”, section 4.5.5 Analysis of Sea Lice Audit Data: Atlantic Salmon Farms and start reading you will see why I am asking for the individual load counts. The information published is a “mean”, which are combined counts of the “active” fish farms, for the different sub-areas? Campbell River is sub-zone 3.2, which is on the direct path “out migration” of the Fraser River Sockeye. If you look on the chart for sub-zone 3.2, page 40, you will see an increase of the “mean” sea lice counts! Since this is a “mean” count, theoretically one farm could have a count of “0, while another farm could have a count of “20”, with the higher completely devastating the smolts on the out migration? Theoretically! This is why I am asking for the individual counts!

BTW, these count numbers DO NOT include any “brood stock”, as there is NO requirement to inspect them for lice? That is a question! But, this in itself could be a “HUGE” problem? I would also like the information concerning “brood stock” pens in the area and the number of “brood stock” and if there was a sea lice count and any “SLICE” treatment given to them?

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/fish_health2007.pdf

I have been advised by Marine Harvest, if I ask for the information they would be happy to share it?

“Please feel free to contact the company that you refer to in your letter of opinion. We would have been happy to share with you the information that will answer your questions. Contacts are on our website at http://www.marineharvestcanada.com”

I am asking for it! Marine Harvest has these records, “they advised” I could have it!

I am still on “standby”, as I have now been told the individual with this information is on “vacation”! I am happy to wait for their return.

I just got off the phone with Ian (Yes, I gave them my phone number, along with my address) and he is stating he understands what I am asking for and I will receive the information this coming week!

Just on another note… does anyone have the “out migration” route/track for Port Alberni, Robertson Creek Chinook? I would really love to see if their “out migration” takes them through the Tofino channels? Very interested!

 

[danthewire]

Keep going Charlie,would be interesting to know about the Alberni fish.Dan

 

[alley cat]

What do you need Charlie ? ............. I am reading with interest and like many others are awaiting the outcome , I have also emailed and asked questions of my MP, MLA and all others concerned in this saga.

AL

 

[highlights]

I too am on board!!! I have written a letter every other day it seems. Just let us know if there are any new ideas that could be exploited. I'm in.

HL

 

[chris73]

If you need a team mate, Charlie, let me know.

 

[alley cat]

Done and will continue quietly to pound out the letters

AL

 

[vetteman]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie

quote:Originally posted by alley cat

What do you need Charlie ? ............. I am reading with interest and like many others are awaiting the outcome , I have also emailed and asked questions of my MP, MLA and all others concerned in this saga.

AL

I need CANADIANS asking Ian questions, before MHC shuts him down and THAT will be very soon!

Ian Roberts will be the guest speaker at the Nanaimo F & G Club meeting to be held on October 27th at the clubhouse.Come on out and see what he has to say.Ask your questions there.It should be interesting.
Dave

 

[cuttlefish]

Hey Charlie,
Interesting. Please share any response you get fro MHC. Many folks have asked for this kind of info in the past and are still waiting. There are also other companies on that migration route that need to share the same kind of info publicly. If there is ever a review called, maybe the info will become public there.

quote:Just on another note… does anyone have the “out migration” route/track for Port Alberni, Robertson Creek Chinook? I would really love to see if their “out migration” takes them through the Tofino channels? Very interested!

Considering the short distance between Barklay Sound and Clayoquot Sound, I don't see why some Robertson Creek chinook wouldn't end up in there, at least inside Vargas and Flores Islands which would take them past a few fish farms. Are adults caught in there? If so, juvies probably migrate through too. There was a letter to the editor of the Westerly a while back by Bob Cole.http://www2.canada.com/westerly/news/upfront/story.html?id=79a11464-0ea9-443b-ad3f-f34d9c6b7c7d You might try asking him about the "out migration" route.
There was also a sea lice study that the Nuu-Chah-Nulth reported on last summer. http://www.nuuchahnulth.org/tribal-council/hashilthsa/2009/august 27, 2009.pdf. Maybe if you contact Katie Beach, she could tell you if they did any DNA on the chinook.

 

[dance a jig]

Salmon farms located on salmon migration routes appear to produce Atlantic salmon, sea lice, profits, decreased returns of mature salmon, and corrupt politicians. Those concerned about the decreased returns raise the valid warning call about sea lice and the battle lines are drawn. The foreign ownership whose interest is in protecting their investment, retain the key politicians as they rape the resourses in BC. More warnings and research come to light, but are unheeded. Is this where we are at now? I think so.

Perhaps a more direct hit needs to be employed. I would suggest that these warning calls and research should be not only directed at the politicians, with the hope one can be found that is not on the fish farm payroll, but warning calls and research should be sent to those who buy the Atlantic farmed salmon. We know the players, Costco, Safeway, Fred Meyer, SuperValue, ..... and they are also ones who have great influence. As far as they are concerned, there is no difference from one Atlantic farmed salmon from another, but perhap they can be made aware that there are farmed salmon raised either a) away from salmon migration route</u>, or b) in a salmon migration route.</u> I very much believe that there are members on those major company's boards of directors who are very concerned that their company's image, and that the products they sell are not bad for the planet. Is there influence that will cause them to discontinue buying all farmed Atlantic salmon? No, the product means profits and has the benefits of freshness year round, etc. But, if they are informed and want to be a "good corporate citizen", will they demand that purchased farm salmon be raised away from salmon migration routes, and ask for some evidence/certification? I believe they would, if their awarenes is raised. Perhaps they can even put a label on the package that says something to the effect "certified non-detrimental to wild or hatchery stocks". I think a marketing guy could coin some better words here. This could ultimately result in a distinction in Atlantic farmed salmon, much like organic produce, corn fed beef, etc. that would raise consumer awareness, which would eventially force the fish farms to relocate.

So... if what is laid out is a valid tactic against those who farm fish along salmon migration routes, a suggested path would be 1) identify all the major buyers of farmed salmon, 2) identify board of director members by name and home and business address, 3) send well crafted letter explaining a) the damage caused by sea lice on salmon migration routes, b) the most relevant unbiased research, c) explain they have a choice in buying farmed salmon, and that the salmon raised away from salmon migration routes is better for the planet, d) invite them to exercise the power to choose to be a responsible corporate buyer of farmed salmon.

Ultimately, I believe an informed consumer will save the salmon by demanding the salmon that is not bad for the planet. It is to bad the politicians havn't stood up yet, perhaps when the message is load and clear.

DAJ

 

[Little Hawk]

This is ALL well and good. Anything that raises net-pen issues in the public-eye is a good thing for Pacific Salmon.

However, I would be skeptical about ANY data supplied by the industry as they are not likely to shoot themselves in the foot.

Escape data is one example. Atlantics' have been escaping from net-pens worldwide since this industry began, more often than not in staggering numbers and the issue has not 'gone-away'. However, I ask you all, what might compel a fish-farmer to publish accurate escape data? Or, to report ANY escape at all?

Our government and the industry carry on about 'stringent regulations' designed to protect our wild fish and marine ecosystems... while they carry-on raping & pillaging and polluting the **** out of our waterways.

Keep up the good work Charlie et al.!

 

[Charlie]

They are required to and keep sea lice data, per site! What appears to be happening is a combined report generated, per sub-zones, which is what was used in the “Fish Health” reports. According to the Fish Health Report, everything is well within tolerances? So, they say… I might have a different opinion. Read the reports and you will see my concerns: http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/ The individual site data is not in the reports, nor really discussed. Just a few comments if the sea lice count exceeded the “trigger” it is being “monitored” and treated as necessary… or words to that effect.

There was so much “heat” concerning the Broughton… I believe all the focus was there and I don’t think anyone was really watching or was concerned with what was happening in Campbell River? After you read the fish health reports take a look at here: http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/farming_fish_health_sea_lice.php and again start reading. Now go to this site: http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/pdf/sea_lice/05_10_09_cyrus.pdf page down and look at the 6-Jul-09 count of “CALIGUS”, that would be 16.53 (lice) per fish, on an inventory of 507,792. That is not counting all the lice floating around, not counted This is right on the Fraser Sockeye migration route! How many Fraser Sockeye, do you think got through there without being “lethally” infested with sea lice?

As far as I can tell, MHC has been keeping these records since 2003, posting on the webpage since 2004. But, if you go and start looking the information isn’t there! Why? I was told the farms were “farrow” and they only post current data. I am okay there… but, I would really like to see the data per site? They have it!

Here is a couple other interesting things:
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/files/Leggatt_reportfinal.pdf
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/pnw_gtr697.pdf
http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFi...ing_ocean_life/env_pew_oceans_aquaculture.pdf


I believe under the right circumstances one farm can completely devastate an entire out migration of an entire run. That has been pretty much proven from reports from Norway and Ireland? That is why I am asking for the individual sea lice counts – per site! Everyone else should be doing this also!

Oh... couple of other points!
If anyone really thinks Alaska has "fish farms"... they need to do their homework!
And... if anyone can "prove" my beliefs are wrong... I will be very happy!

 

[cuttlefish]

Good eye finding that, Charlie. It simply puts the lie to the comment made by Paul Sprout, DFO Regional Director General, Pacific Region in his August 16th letter to the editor absolving fish farms from any sea lice connection with wild salmon.

quote:We also know that the sea lice species found on juvenile sockeye in the Straight of Georgia are not the same species that typically infects farmed salmon.

He is either wrong from ignorance or lying.

The sea lice found on juvenile sockeye in 2007 samples were the same caligus species as the high numbers of caligus reported at the Cyrus Rocks farm in 2009. Now if only they would send you the 2007 farm report...

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by cuttlefish

Good eye finding that, Charlie. It simply puts the lie to the comment made by Paul Sprout, DFO Regional Director General, Pacific Region in his August 16th letter to the editor absolving fish farms from any sea lice connection with wild salmon.

quote:We also know that the sea lice species found on juvenile sockeye in the Straight of Georgia are not the same species that typically infects farmed salmon.

He is either wrong from ignorance or lying.

The sea lice found on juvenile sockeye in 2007 samples were the same caligus species as the high numbers of caligus reported at the Cyrus Rocks farm in 2009. Now if only they would send you the 2007 farm report...

ah, Yep! Would be one or the other?
Marine Harvest, to date! Has NOT</u> agreed to give me any information??? Why???? Maybe , its in their 2008 annual report, that is worth a read! Pay particular attention to their "sea lice", "Chile", "Canada", and "US" statements, concerning parasites, disease and their growth and revenue projections! They know they are killing off our “wild” runs; it’s just a cost of doing business to them!</u>

So, here's the latest!

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie
To: Shea.G@parl.gc.ca ; Roberts, Ian ; pm@pm.gc.ca ; corporate@marineharvest.com
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 5:06 AM
Subject: Fw: Individual information?

October 18, 2009

Please consider this a formal request to obtain your individual monthly "sea lice" and "disease" information - per site, for the Campbell River, British Columbia, Canada area, known as BC "sub-zone 3-2" and Marine Harvest area "Campbell River" for the years 2006 and 2007.

Please do not send any combined area information or reports (I already have that). I am asking for the individual site records. I have requested this information several times and have been advised by Marine Harvest it would be provided, " We would have been happy to share with you the information that will answer your questions. Contacts are on our website at http://www.marineharvestcanada.com " Ian Roberts, dated October 5, 2009. To date I have not received any requested information. There is nothing being asked that is proprietary in nature, and it is information required to be maintained.

Furthermore, there is nothing "healthy and professional" about this request. I ask for no "professional discussion". I "recognize" no actions "were inappropriate." I am asking for no "energy or communicating" from anyone, other than the information requested and promised! And, this is not about any "level of respect and professionalism!" I further assure I am capable of forming my own conclusions and opinions, based on the information. I can also conclude, if there is nothing to "cover-up" there should not be any problem providing this information!

Your immediate attention to this will be appreciated!

Thank You,

Just a note to the above... I have received an email from the PM’s office that stated they referred it to the Minister of DFO, “ On behalf of the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, I would like to thank you for your e-mail, in which you raised an issue that falls within the portfolio of the Honourable Gail Shea, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.” And, did send it directly to the Minister DFO... they read it on October 18th, I did receive confirmation!