Stamp River Falls -Fish Count

Derby

Crew Member
Somass River Escapement Bulletin
Observations to Oct 25, 2011
OBSERVATIONS:
Stamp falls counting facility has been operational since September 1. During the past week
Chinook adult numbers have ranged from 58 to 320. Coho adults have ranged from 68 to 357
and Sockeye adults have ranged from 0 to 4. Total escapement through Stamp Falls to
October 25 is 25,769 adult Chinook, 46,481 adult Coho and 477 adult Sockeye. Sockeye
escapement through both Great Central Lake and Sproat Lake counters requires further
analysis at this time. No additional data is available at present.
Stamp Falls enumeration has been fully operational so far with no shut downs.
River flows are moderate, and river temperature is 11oC.
2011 EXPECTATIONS:
Sockeye: For 2011, the forecast return of Somass sockeye was upgraded to 1,400,000. The
escapement target for this run size is 513,600, giving a surplus of 886,400 sockeye available for
catch. Expected stock composition is about 48% Great Central, and 52% Sproat Sockeye.
Expected age composition is about 25%, 62%, 7% and 6% for age 42, 52, 53 and 63 adults,
respectively.
Chinook: Approximately 47,600 Somass Chinook are forecast to return to Barkley Sound and
Alberni Inlet in 2011. The predicted adult age composition is 8%, 81% and 11% of 3, 4 and 5-
year olds, respectively. Given the age composition, about 32,500 spawners are required to
meet the 57.2M egg target for the system. Therefore, about 15,000 Somass Chinook are
available for harvest in the ‘terminal fishery’ from Alberni Inlet seaward to Barkley Sound.
Chum: Approximately 565,000 Chum are forecast to return to South West Vancouver Island in
2011, however pre-season forecasts for Chum returns are highly uncertain. Over the last few
years, returns of WCVI Chum have been well below long-term averages and this trend is
expected to continue in 2011.
Coho: For the 2008 brood year, 405,000 coho smolts were released from the Robertson Creek
Hatchery and there were about 39,000 natural spawners. The forecast survival rate of
Robertson Creek/Somass Coho for the 2008 brood year is above average at 8.5%. The total
expected return to Somass system is about 40,000 to 60,000 coho.
PROGRAM OVERVIEW:
Fish counting operations on the Somass system are run by the Hupacasath First Nation in
collaboration with DFO.
To estimate the escapement of Somass Sockeye, automatic fish counters are installed at the
Sproat and Great Central fishways in mid-May. Twice weekly visual calibrations are used to
validate counter data as well as to determine species and age (jacks versus adult) composition
of escapement. A portion of the Sockeye escapement is biologically sampled at the fishways.
Of interest are age at return, sex ratio and fecundity. For Henderson Sockeye, escapement is
estimated through a series of swim surveys of the main spawning habitat (Clemens Creek and
nearby beach habitat). These surveys are conducted in September and October.
Counters are removed from the Great Central fishway in early September when Chinook begin
to migrate upstream. After this, all salmon passing through the Stamp Falls fishway are counted
by trained and experienced observers. They identify fish to species, estimate the portion of
jacks by relative size and estimate the portion of marked (adipose fin clipped) fish. Migration
through the fishway is videotaped for later verification of daytime real-time counts and species
Page 2 of 3
identification and for enumeration of night-time migration. Real-time observations are typically
greater than 95% accurate for counts, species identification and mark rate.
Below, are a series of figures that express 2011 escapement observations relative to average
escapement timing from 1999 to 2010 for Chinook and Coho. Although informative, in some
years observed escapement rate relative to average escapement timing may be a poor
indication of final run abundance. In contrast to ‘run timing’, (the return of Chinook/Coho to
Alberni Inlet) escapement timing tends to be more variable. It is influenced by the impact of
fisheries and environmental conditions, such as river temperature or flow.
Cumulative Daytime Adult Chinook Returns Through Stamp Falls
 
Wow after how hot the inlet was this summer there was only 25k escapement? I heard some guys in the know predicting 70+ k. Any idea what the TAC on them was? Must have been quite high.
 
And HOW many were nailed in the free for all gill net fishery....and pre-fishing the plan was they were allotted 2700 fish....post fishery that somehow grew to 10,000...and why, because DFO put a time limited opening free for all bag as many fish lottery fishery in place...rather than, gee we have 30 boats fishing, each is allotted 100 fish and when you have them on board you stop fishing. Typical form of money for nothing, chicks for free, free love unprotected sex management we have seen. Fake it til ya make it, when you get tired, get up and dream up any excuse to cover up your not too sexy body. I could rant on...but really, no one at DFO gives a crap to think up a better way to control the commercial fishery so we get an escapement. Time for selective terminal fisheries - count em, ensure we have enough, and take the harvestable surplus...stop the guess work, ooops we messed up again lets quickly make up some new numbers style of management for this fishery.
 
Funny how when the Health Department screwed up regarding mentally challenged individuals both the minister and CEO got the axe, but DFO can screw up daily and they don't even get so much as a public spanking.
 
Funny how when the Health Department screwed up regarding mentally challenged individuals both the minister and CEO got the axe, but DFO can screw up daily and they don't even get so much as a public spanking.

Because they are mentally challenged themselves perhaps.
 
Roger that, sorry for the rant...but this crap makes my blood boil. Not a difficult concept to put in controls, and even less to go to a selective terminal fishery.
 
And HOW many were nailed in the free for all gill net fishery....and pre-fishing the plan was they were allotted 2700 fish....post fishery that somehow grew to 10,000...and why, because DFO put a time limited opening free for all bag as many fish lottery fishery in place...rather than, gee we have 30 boats fishing, each is allotted 100 fish and when you have them on board you stop fishing. Typical form of money for nothing, chicks for free, free love unprotected sex management we have seen. Fake it til ya make it, when you get tired, get up and dream up any excuse to cover up your not too sexy body. I could rant on...but really, no one at DFO gives a crap to think up a better way to control the commercial fishery so we get an escapement. Time for selective terminal fisheries - count em, ensure we have enough, and take the harvestable surplus...stop the guess work, ooops we messed up again lets quickly make up some new numbers style of management for this fishery.

To be fair Pat, we best be looking at what all three sectors took! Sport, commercial, FN commercial, oh ya, and FN food & ceremonial. Let's look at all the numbers for all species of salmon that were taken by all the sectors.

DHA.
 
nothing fair about it. how is 2700 suddenly turned to 10,000, and that is OK??? I have no issue with running a commercial fishery that is selective at the river (terminal), and one that is controlled. This fishery has been run lottery style and when the catch doesn't match the number of surplus fish they play with the math. Gimme a break. As for FN, last time I checked they have priority access to the fish before anyone else. DFO knows that, and needs to plan for this fishery also and despite knowing the numbers of FN fish, calculating a harvestable surplus of 2700 for commercial, they then allow a lottery style fishery and take 10,000....little wonder we don't have a full spawning escapement 4 years in a row. And..on that note, DFO adjusts the targeted spawning escapement to match the number of fish that make it over the counters every year, funny how that happens. Yep, that's management....that's my beef, not the commercial fishermen who did what they were allowed to do.
 
nothing fair about it. how is 2700 suddenly turned to 10,000, and that is OK??? I have no issue with running a commercial fishery that is selective at the river (terminal), and one that is controlled. This fishery has been run lottery style and when the catch doesn't match the number of surplus fish they play with the math. Gimme a break. As for FN, last time I checked they have priority access to the fish before anyone else. DFO knows that, and needs to plan for this fishery also and despite knowing the numbers of FN fish, calculating a harvestable surplus of 2700 for commercial, they then allow a lottery style fishery and take 10,000....little wonder we don't have a full spawning escapement 4 years in a row. And..on that note, DFO adjusts the targeted spawning escapement to match the number of fish that make it over the counters every year, funny how that happens. Yep, that's management....that's my beef, not the commercial fishermen who did what they were allowed to do.

LOL, slow down there cowboy! Don't empty your six shooter before you share all of the facts, and if you don't have them all, may I suggest that you complete all of your homework assignments first. That is prior to spilling a cup full of misinformation.

DHA.
 
Thanks for posting this I couldn't find any 2011 numbers from the somass anywhere.

Sad to see only 25,000 chinook pass threw the falls but the real news is how commercials took more than they were allocated and nothing will be done in terms of penalties. Coho numbers seem good this year compared to last year at around 20-25k wasn't it?
 
Thanks for posting this I couldn't find any 2011 numbers from the somass anywhere.

Sad to see only 25,000 chinook pass threw the falls but the real news is how commercials took more than they were allocated and nothing will be done in terms of penalties. Coho numbers seem good this year compared to last year at around 20-25k wasn't it?

Again, we need to review all sectors harvest numbers, not just the commercial sector. DFO is the real issue, not any single sector on their own.

DHA.
 
Really? I got all the numbers...here's the numbers straight from Paul Preston's Sept 01/11 fishery bulletin which reads

"A commercial Area D gill net fishery is planned for the evening of September 5. Fishing will begin for two hours (sic) increments until target catch of approximately 2,000 is achieved."

How did the target get to be 10,000?? Guess I failed math class.
 
Really? I got all the numbers...here's the numbers straight from Paul Preston's Sept 01/11 fishery bulletin which reads

"A commercial Area D gill net fishery is planned for the evening of September 5. Fishing will begin for two hours (sic) increments until target catch of approximately 2,000 is achieved."

How did the target get to be 10,000?? Guess I failed math class.

Really? I don't see what you are hiding, can you share the rest too? Please?

DHA.
 
Didn't like the facts? Please, that is a classic bait and switch tactic when the logic and facts dont support your views. I could fill this post with facts and still get the same argument. Hardly worth the effort. Facts speak for themselves....since when is it good management to set a target of approximately 2,000 and turn it into 10,000 to match the actual catch after a free for all fishery. Maybe not happen in my life time, but the commercial fishery will die a natural death when DFO allows the resource to be fished into extinction, which is my point that you are hijacking into another issue altogether.
 
Didn't like the facts? Please, that is a classic bait and switch tactic when the logic and facts dont support your views. I could fill this post with facts and still get the same argument. Hardly worth the effort. Facts speak for themselves....since when is it good management to set a target of approximately 2,000 and turn it into 10,000 to match the actual catch after a free for all fishery. Maybe not happen in my life time, but the commercial fishery will die a natural death when DFO allows the resource to be fished into extinction, which is my point that you are hijacking into another issue altogether.

You are not sharing the total facts, the only bait has been accumulated from the comments that you have been presenting in your previous posts. I have asked you more than once to share all the data and total harvest numbers that pertain to all three sectors. You fail to abide, your perception of facts don't say anything when you only share data from one sector. That's kind of lopsided now isn't it?

You've made other comments in your previous three posts on this thread that are also inaccurate to some degree, or at least misleading in the sense, and that is regarding priority status.

DHA.
 
It's seems kinda moot to ask what other sectors caught when the argument is how it came to be that the commercial quota was exceeded by 500% on a fragile resource. Yeah, you can blame it on DFO ultimately, however either the commercials are completely stupid that they cannot figure out when to stop or extremely greedy and reckless. I bet on latter though.
 
It's seems kinda moot to ask what other sectors caught when the argument is how it came to be that the commercial quota was exceeded by 500% on a fragile resource. Yeah, you can blame it on DFO ultimately, however either the commercials are completely stupid that they cannot figure out when to stop or extremely greedy and reckless. I bet on latter though.

Kinda moot? Not at all Chris, my point was to show that all three sectors have gone over and exceeded their quotas in the Alberni inlet.

DHA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I love these pissing matches that are based on perspective. Everyone is right but they still can't agree.
DHA, you're right. Every sector had a negative effect and created an over harvest. The math is exponential. If the commies took 500% of the allowable catch, and DFO simply raises the quota so there is no issue, there is still an issue. The issue is that both of the Sport and Native fisheries WOULD HAVE BEEN allocated out of the 8000 extra fish the commies took. If a sportie or a native were to take even one fish more than the commies it would result in a negative impact against the total fishery because what should have been the allocation for all three sectors was both taken and exceeded by only one party! So do all three parties have a hand in negatively effecting the fishery? Yes, but only because the commies harvested everyones share! That makes the other posts on here right. At that point any fish caught by either of the remaining users is in excess of what should have been taken and will eventually take it's toll on the resource.
The bottom line is why does DFO even bother to set limits for the commies when they basically get to do whatever they want and DFO will "FIX" the total after the fact?
 
I love these pissing matches that are based on perspective. Everyone is right but they still can't agree.
DHA, you're right. Every sector had a negative effect and created an over harvest. The math is exponential. If the commies took 500% of the allowable catch, and DFO simply raises the quota so there is no issue, there is still an issue. The issue is that both of the Sport and Native fisheries WOULD HAVE BEEN allocated out of the 8000 extra fish the commies took. If a sportie or a native were to take even one fish more than the commies it would result in a negative impact against the total fishery because what should have been the allocation for all three sectors was both taken and exceeded by only one party! So do all three parties have a hand in negatively effecting the fishery? Yes, but only because the commies harvested everyones share! That makes the other posts on here right. At that point any fish caught by either of the remaining users is in excess of what should have been taken and will eventually take it's toll on the resource.
The bottom line is why does DFO even bother to set limits for the commies when they basically get to do whatever they want and DFO will "FIX" the total after the fact?

Great comment, and I will reiterate that DFO is the real issue, not any single sector on their own. DFO needs to be held accountable for these types of scenarios and issues that they create and allow to happen. That is why it is paramount that all sectors work together in order to develop relationships of understanding while engaging the the idea of working together to help develop substantial change and sustainable fishing opportunities for all sectors. Most of all, each and every sector must put fish first above all else. DFO is the issue, they always have been and always will be for as long as we battle and war against each sector.

DHA.
 
Back
Top