So Let’s Talk About It, Halibut 2013

[GLG]

Mornin

would anyone be nice enuff to compile the top 10 ideas that would help or not help our 2013 Halibut Sporty 15% Allocation Management issues..


, use the reply with quote , keep it all one page , keep it organised some what

cheers

fd

Thanks for offering up your skill to help move this along.
Here is a partial list that may help
Perhaps others could add or refine or come up with a better way to do this.

1- Maximum size limit - 50 lbs
2- Maximum size limit - 75 lbs
3- Maximum size limit - 100 lbs
4- Individual annual limit - 3
5- Individual annual limit - 5
6- Individual annual limit - 10
7- Daily and total possession limit 1/1 - full season
8- Daily and total possession limit 1/1 - July and August only shoulder season of 1/2
9- Daily and total possession limit 1/2 - 1 over 1 under (last year)
10- Daily and total possession limit 1/2 - shorter season
11- Season length short
12- Season length long
13- Time and Area closures - yes
14- Time and Area closures - no
15- Area allocations - yes
16- Area allocations - no
17- Restriction on the “Gifting” of halibut by service providers - Yes
18- Restriction on the “Gifting” of halibut by service providers - No
19- Barbless hooks
20- Stamp with money going somwhere?

GLG

 

[SerengetiGuide]

6, 9, 20! That will do it Max size limit = dumb.

 

[the fog ducker]

im workin on it , swamped with work

keep em coming , the poll will help put things in perspective..

im setting it up so that we see who has voted , should be interesting ,
hope the mods will help out here by making it a sticky !!

there will be several polls to help get all the ideas and numbers involved ,
then broken down to maybe the best 5 or so proposals !!
then have a final vote..get invovled !! or dont ***** later...

done by the weekend for sure...

fd

 

[Duffer]

MY birthday. Awesome! not,

Ill be there

Lorne

Maybe the bar can be open for you this time Lorne

 

[lorneparker1]

Maybe the bar can be open for you this time Lorne

I am formally putting in that request right now!

Lorne

 

[Cuba Libre]

No bar-- but I will try to get a coffee urn.

 

[lorneparker1]

No bar-- but I will try to get a coffee urn.

Dont be gay!

Lorne

 

[Cuba Libre]

No shame to be gay I am told! http://www.mountgayrum.com/ My second to Bacardi................ So--- no booze for you!!!

 

[gamechanger]

Wow 21 pages and still going...sure one thing in common tho, lots of interest in this. Like Gil and Pat have said, come to the SFAC's and be part of the discussion. The motions passed there, or even advice/direction in the minutes will be passed up the chain and be part of the discussions at the SFAB South Coast meeting and then onto the mainboard. No decision will be perfect for everybody, that's reality but here's some things for your consideration.

Halibut stamp - great idea, I don't think anybody really disagrees with that, but the reality of it is there is a huge issue getting this passed through Treasury Board, so it's not going to be a reality for 2013. It's in the works but its not going to be a real option for 2013. Stay tuned, it's being worked on.

Max size limits - in order to be effective it would have to be small, prob a lot smaller than you think. Get a copy of the 2011 Canadian Rec fishery Halibut Catch Report - really good info in there. Here's some of it:

Average weights ( from whole season, sample size not an issue) - in pounds
Area 12 - Hardy - 17.9
Area 19 - Vic - 28.8
Area 23/123 - Barkley - 9.2
Area 24/124 - Tofino - 16.1
Area 25/125 - Nootka/Esp - 25.9
Area 26/126 - Kyuquot - 19.5
Area 27/127 - Quatsino - 27.8
Charlottes - 1/2 - 12/23.8

So as you can see, if this is the average size having a max size would have to be on the small side to make a dent in the TAC. Sure there are some big fish in some areas, some areas more than others for sure, but that's some of the data when you average out thousands of halibut samples from 2011 (17,800 sampled in 2011).

Gifting - sure ethically it sounds good, people prob shouldn't be doing it. Does it happen, yes, is it a huge issue, likely not. So if we eliminated would be save a lot? Likely no.

Annual limit - how many people catch more than 6, 8, 10, 20 halibut a year? Prob not many. 1M lbs of TAC is about 100,000 halis at a 10 lb ave or 66,700 halis at a 15lb ave. If we have 300k saltwater licenses and prob about 1/3 of them that fish for halis that's 100,000 people catching 60,000-100,000 halis so that's less than 1 per person if you do the math...any real savings in that? Looks good on paper though.

We as a sector need to find ways of saving 100k+ pounds of hali or more if you want to stay within the TAC, so when you are thinking about proposed management measures keep that in mind, and what we would need to do as a sector to have a full season and stay within our TAC

Polls - FD - great idea, would there be a way that we could put forth all of the results in a 1 pager to the SFAB or the SFI? 1582 people voted and these are the results for this one and this one...that kind of thing? Would be great to bring forward.

Cheers, gc

 

[trendsetter]

Thank you very much for your detailed post gamechanger. Do you have access to the actual dfo estimated catch counts by region?

The reason I ask is the ballpark numbers you are quoting about 30% of licensed anglers fishing for halibut just don't jive with what I see on the water and at the docks. Sure, in Bamfield, Ukee and Tofino it's about 30% or above that target halibut. But down in Sooke, Victoria it's less. Maybe 10% on most days. Occasionally it's up higher but the only day I saw a significant percentage of the boats targeting halis out of sooke was the last day of the season. Sure there are usually some boats targeting halis but the vast majority are fishing for salmon.

In the strait of georigia from nanaimo through the gulf islands until you get to Sidney it's closer to 0% targeting hali. I didn't get up north island this year but I did spend about 50 days on the water around the south island from Nanaimo all the way to Tofino.

I think that there are a small percentage of fisherman that take a large percentage of the catch. That's why I am in favor of an annual limit.

If you do have the estimated catch counts by region I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in seeing them.

Cheers

 

[Sculpin]

Well it is good to know that the stamp is being looked at.

I guess the main options for 2013 are:

-Somehow miraculously obtaining more quota to increase our portion of the TAC.

-Implement the over/under slot again and probably be shut down earlier than last year.

-Implement a 1/1 for July and August (the highest catch months) and most likely have a long season.

-Stay at 1/2 with none of the above and shut her down early.

This is the reality we face unfortunately. Most have focused on the future with stamps, annual limits that don't make sense now if you do the math and follow our arguements about numbers of anglers etc. The Malcolm trial results will take awhile to be released (early next year).

The original question and the topic at hand is what can we do for 2013?

 

[lorneparker1]

Wow 21 pages and still going...sure one thing in common tho, lots of interest in this. Like Gil and Pat have said, come to the SFAC's and be part of the discussion. The motions passed there, or even advice/direction in the minutes will be passed up the chain and be part of the discussions at the SFAB South Coast meeting and then onto the mainboard. No decision will be perfect for everybody, that's reality but here's some things for your consideration.

Halibut stamp - great idea, I don't think anybody really disagrees with that, but the reality of it is there is a huge issue getting this passed through Treasury Board, so it's not going to be a reality for 2013. It's in the works but its not going to be a real option for 2013. Stay tuned, it's being worked on.

Max size limits - in order to be effective it would have to be small, prob a lot smaller than you think. Get a copy of the 2011 Canadian Rec fishery Halibut Catch Report - really good info in there. Here's some of it:

Average weights ( from whole season, sample size not an issue) - in pounds
Area 12 - Hardy - 17.9
Area 19 - Vic - 28.8
Area 23/123 - Barkley - 9.2
Area 24/124 - Tofino - 16.1
Area 25/125 - Nootka/Esp - 25.9
Area 26/126 - Kyuquot - 19.5
Area 27/127 - Quatsino - 27.8
Charlottes - 1/2 - 12/23.8

So as you can see, if this is the average size having a max size would have to be on the small side to make a dent in the TAC. Sure there are some big fish in some areas, some areas more than others for sure, but that's some of the data when you average out thousands of halibut samples from 2011 (17,800 sampled in 2011).

Gifting - sure ethically it sounds good, people prob shouldn't be doing it. Does it happen, yes, is it a huge issue, likely not. So if we eliminated would be save a lot? Likely no.

Annual limit - how many people catch more than 6, 8, 10, 20 halibut a year? Prob not many. 1M lbs of TAC is about 100,000 halis at a 10 lb ave or 66,700 halis at a 15lb ave. If we have 300k saltwater licenses and prob about 1/3 of them that fish for halis that's 100,000 people catching 60,000-100,000 halis so that's less than 1 per person if you do the math...any real savings in that? Looks good on paper though.

We as a sector need to find ways of saving 100k+ pounds of hali or more if you want to stay within the TAC, so when you are thinking about proposed management measures keep that in mind, and what we would need to do as a sector to have a full season and stay within our TAC

Polls - FD - great idea, would there be a way that we could put forth all of the results in a 1 pager to the SFAB or the SFI? 1582 people voted and these are the results for this one and this one...that kind of thing? Would be great to bring forward.

Cheers, gc

Great post GC.

Lorne

 

[Fish Assassin]

No bar-- but I will try to get a coffee urn.

I agree with Lorne... Sounds Gay. Fisherman drinking tea and coffee talking fishing.. Come on GUYS

 

[OldBlackDog]

So lets start with the stamp. I vote no as I do not wish to spend money for nothing. I certainly do not want to use this money to purchase quota that no one paid for.
Do you really think the maiority want to throw money away???

Thank you very much for your detailed post gamechanger. Do you have access to the actual dfo estimated catch counts by region?

The reason I ask is the ballpark numbers you are quoting about 30% of licensed anglers fishing for halibut just don't jive with what I see on the water and at the docks. Sure, in Bamfield, Ukee and Tofino it's about 30% or above that target halibut. But down in Sooke, Victoria it's less. Maybe 10% on most days. Occasionally it's up higher but the only day I saw a significant percentage of the boats targeting halis out of sooke was the last day of the season. Sure there are usually some boats targeting halis but the vast majority are fishing for salmon.

In the strait of georigia from nanaimo through the gulf islands until you get to Sidney it's closer to 0% targeting hali. I didn't get up north island this year but I did spend about 50 days on the water around the south island from Nanaimo all the way to Tofino.

I think that there are a small percentage of fisherman that take a large percentage of the catch. That's why I am in favor of an annual limit.

If you do have the estimated catch counts by region I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in seeing them.

Cheers

 

[lorneparker1]

So lets start with the stamp. I vote no as I do not wish to spend money for nothing. I certainly do not want to use this money to purchase quota that no one paid for.
Do you really think the maiority want to throw money away???

I KNOW the majority want accurate catch data.

Lorne

 

[lorneparker1]

I agree that most sports fisher's want accurate catch data. It has to become a reality but again it is DFO's fault for not excepting it. Lorne stop slamming certain folks that abide by the rules etc. When the BIG focus should be in DFO.

There are so many stories about cheater's in the Commercial industry it's not funny. The system that DFO has in place with them is a joke really. The DFO doesn't have a clue about their catch either so it is really a "who says this against a who says that " situation that get's us where we are today. The bottom line is there is more economic gain for the Country from Sports fishing for these fish then Commercial so we should be looking at that politically and as a Country.

The commercially paid member's of this site will come and pick my post apart with false allocations etc. That is what they are PAID to do. Don't let these pricks bring you down. You are Sports Fishing individuals with your own mind.

I wasnt aware i slammed anyone? As far as stories go, im sure our sector has just as many if not more. But they are stories! We need facts, and the facts are no one has any clue how much fish we catch. The commies have cameras and on board observers. Does that mean its prefect? no... but its sure a hellauva lot stronger leg to stand on then we have.

Lorne

 

[searun]

Great post Gamechanger. I hope that guys come out to their local meetings to get more detailed information than is possible to post here. I believe that once people get the facts they will start to see that while we have been talking about some lofty ideals, most of them will not help us stay within TAC. This will be increasingly difficult as we continue to see the recreational fishery evolve and our needs increase. We need to look very closely at the catch data by area and month to see the trends, then start working back different options to forecast the impact of each at reducing the catch or exploitation rate.

 

[the fog ducker]

i do ,
dug it up from the archives
, talk about when i get back from Seattle , shocked ta here how many pounds up north gets annually..

fd

Thank you very much for your detailed post gamechanger. Do you have access to the actual dfo estimated catch counts by region?

The reason I ask is the ballpark numbers you are quoting about 30% of licensed anglers fishing for halibut just don't jive with what I see on the water and at the docks. Sure, in Bamfield, Ukee and Tofino it's about 30% or above that target halibut. But down in Sooke, Victoria it's less. Maybe 10% on most days. Occasionally it's up higher but the only day I saw a significant percentage of the boats targeting halis out of sooke was the last day of the season. Sure there are usually some boats targeting halis but the vast majority are fishing for salmon.

In the strait of georigia from nanaimo through the gulf islands until you get to Sidney it's closer to 0% targeting hali. I didn't get up north island this year but I did spend about 50 days on the water around the south island from Nanaimo all the way to Tofino.

I think that there are a small percentage of fisherman that take a large percentage of the catch. That's why I am in favor of an annual limit.

If you do have the estimated catch counts by region I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in seeing them.

Cheers