Question re:possession limit

Discussion in 'Saltwater Fishing Forum' started by donnie d, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:13 PM.

  1. donnie d

    donnie d Member

    I’m sure this has been talked about before and maybe even more so since the new SOG regs came out.

    I am going to have the boat down from the Okanagan for two weeks. I am going to be fishing a mix of area 13, 14, 15, 19 and 20-1.

    If I catch my Chinook possession limit (2) in the SOG, can I still go get two in 20-1? I assume yes? I also assume when I package fish from SOG I should be marking it very carefully to identify license, date and area of catch.

    Thanks appreciate comments.

    dd
     
  2. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    You may only hold a Possession Limit of each species of salmon until you return to your residence, regardless of the area from where they were caught. For example, I may NOT possess 2 Chinook taken legally from Area 13, then cross the line to area 14 and take 2 more in the following days.

    Your care in packaging and labelling (including species) is important, as you mentioned.
    Good luck!
     
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  3. paguy

    paguy Active Member

    You could just eat salmon the whole time your there, You will be sick of salmon by the time you go home and only want two.
     
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  4. donnie d

    donnie d Member

    I understand those guidelines, however, area 20-1 has a 2 per day/4 possession limit. So if I kept 2 from 20-1 and 2 from 13 (which has the 1/2 limits) is that allowed?
     
  5. AlK

    AlK Well-Known Member

    Fish that you eat.
    A fish that you’ve caught and are preparing to eat immediately while you are away from your ordinary residence is considered part of your daily limit and your possession limit. Once the fish is eaten, it’s no longer part of your possession limit. However, it is still part of your daily limit for the day it was caught.
     
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  6. Pippen

    Pippen Well-Known Member

    As AIK said...you can feed yourself but if you are being legal and writing down your fish you need to go home before you keep more than a possession limit . When we are away there is a reason we eat coho or rockfish when open .
     
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  7. UkeeDreamin

    UkeeDreamin Well-Known Member

    So long as you record your catch on your license, which includes the area each chinook was caught, and don’t exceed any daily or possession limits you are good. In this case you can’t have more than two SOG chinook in your possession but that doesn’t prevent you from possessing chinook from other areas so long as your maximum possession limit of 4 Chinook isn’t exceeded. Again, if you’re inspected, the accuracy of what you’ve recorded on your license will either be to your benefit or be a liability. E.g. if you’ve kept more than two SOG chinook over a number of days and you have more than two chinook in your possession, you may have a hard time convincing a fish cop you ate the extra SOG fish ... on the other hand if you record only 2 SOG fish and multiple non SOG fish, so long as your in possession limits they’d be stretching their authority to give you any hassle and it would never stick in court if they took action.

    Cheers!

    Ukee
     
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  8. StormTrooper

    StormTrooper Active Member

    You may not exceed your daily limit of two per day if specified in the variation order. The next day you can fish a different area and if it is only one per day, then you may not exceed it, but you can go back to the other area and catch one to make two for that day. Your two days of total possession limit may not exceed 4 total. This only applies to record-able fish that MUST be applied to your catch data as condition of license. (ie. Chinook Salmon) Also your mixed daily catch for species of salmon in most cases may not exceed a total of four combined. Also note If your target is coho for example and there are different terms in the variance order pertaining to areas in close proximity, then you may only retain the amount specified for the area. For instance if you fish an area where you may retain only 2 coho, then go to an area where you can only retain one, but are fishing a different species, be prepared to get a fine if boarded.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 9:12 PM
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  9. Pippen

    Pippen Well-Known Member

    Until you go home, can't keep more than your possession limit.
     
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  10. StormTrooper

    StormTrooper Active Member

    Yes. 100% correct.
     
  11. donnie d

    donnie d Member

    This answers my question! Thank you.
     
  12. nicnat

    nicnat Active Member

    "I understand those guidelines, however, area 20-1 has a 2 per day/4 possession limit. So if I kept 2 from 20-1 and 2 from 13 (which has the 1/2 limits) is that allowed?"

    no that would not not be allowed as that would be a 3 day possession limit, 2 from 13 is 2 day limit and 2 from 20-1 is a 1 day limit making it 3 days of limits.

    the only way you can take 4 chinook is to take your 2 day limit from area 20-1. or you could have a 2 day limit of 3 with 2 from 20-1 and 1 from the the other areas, if you keep 2 from the other areas you are done for chinook til you get home.
     
  13. UkeeDreamin

    UkeeDreamin Well-Known Member

    So much false info being provided on this thread. Sorry Nicnat, but your understanding of the regs simply isn’t true.

    If I were to fish in an area w/ 1/d and 2 possession regs for 2 or more days I am legally allowed to keep my possession limit of 2 fish. If I also fis some days in other areas w/ 2/d and 4 possession regs I can keep my 2/d and a total of 4 in possession. So long as your daily catch and/or total possession doesn’t exceed any reg for what you harvest from the specific area, or max total for the day/ possession, you are fully within the law.

    Again, it is critical to keep your catch recorded and actually follow the regs - ie don’t fill your quota wherever and record it to fudge compliance as DFO does do remote surveillance to catch this sort of thing.

    I can give folks two real life examples - fishing around Ukee when you can only keep hatchery coho offshor but wild or hatchery coho inshore. When I fish for a week we catch fish in both areas and stay within the regs and limits. Fish cops know they can check your electronics history if they feel suspicious but I’ve been checked many times daily and no problems. Second example is Fraser sockeye time - as I hold both salt and freshwater licenses I regularly head down for an overnight trip and harvest my 4/d 8- possession from the tidal area as well as hit the river and floss/snag my 2/d 4 in possession. Cumulatively I have a dozen fish and am legal on both my licenses. Again, this has been checked.

    I also know DoJ and PPSC folks who work with DFO and have discussed this many times. Ultimately if there is a charge, they must approve whether to proceed with it. In these cases, unless the fish cops have hard eveidence (eg surveillance) of someone exceeding the daily or possession limit from a specific area, they will not approve charges.

    Cheers!

    Ukee
     
  14. Che

    Che Active Member

    >So much false info being provided on this thread

    I'll never understand why people have such a hard time reading the regulations. Sure, if English is your second language, but even still they're not written in such complex language that one cannot understand them.
     
  15. Pippen

    Pippen Well-Known Member

    Basically.....don't go home to the Okanagan with more than 4 springs in any shape or form.
     
  16. donnie d

    donnie d Member

    Thanks everyone. You read the regs and come to this conclusion but it’s nice to have the backup. Not interested in breaking any rules...nor would I need or want more than 4 Springs in my freezer...that’s enough for my family! But it certainly would be nice to go home with those 4 since I only get to tidewater once a summer...twice if lucky!
     
  17. mbowers

    mbowers Active Member

    I agree there is much false information and fake news being posted. People don't seem to be paying attention to the annual limit either which is another form of possession limit. Does keeping 15 springs from Area 29 mean you are done fishing springs anywhere else in BC for the rest of the year too? Seems unlikely.

    What are your comments on keeping 12 sockeye from fresh and saltwater and the regulation

    "
    Limits
    • The daily limit for all species of Pacific salmon from tidal and fresh waters
    combined is four. Individual species limits also apply.
    • The possession limit for all salmon from all waters is twice the daily limit. You
    cannot possess more than eight salmon in total, except for salmon that are
    at your ordinary residence."

    Perhaps you have been checked and not issued a violation for 12 salmon or maybe that's a new rule but the possession limit for salmon from all waters is clearly 8.
     
  18. UkeeDreamin

    UkeeDreamin Well-Known Member

    Interesting where was that pulled from as I’ve never seen it? I just pulled this right from the legislation on the fed government website, which noted it is valid to today’s date:

    PART IVFishing for Salmon in Tidal and Non-Tidal Waters
    Application
    42 This Part applies to fishing for salmon in tidal and non-tidal waters.

    Close Times
    43 No person shall fish for salmon of a species set out in column I of an item of Schedule VI, in any Subarea, lake or stream, during the close time set out in column V of that item.

    Daily Quotas for Individual Species
    44 No person shall catch and retain in a day more salmon of a species set out in column I of an item of Schedule VI, of an overall length set out in column III of that item, in any Subarea, lake or stream, than the daily quota set out in column IV of that item.

    Aggregate Daily Quotas
    • 45 (1) No person shall catch and retain in a day, in any Subarea, lake or stream, more than
      • (a) four hatchery chinook salmon and wild chinook salmon, in the aggregate, that measure 50 cm or less in overall length;

      • (b) two hatchery chinook salmon and wild chinook salmon, in the aggregate, that measure more than 50 cm in overall length;

      • (c) four hatchery chinook salmon and wild chinook salmon, in the aggregate;

      • (d) four hatchery coho salmon and wild coho salmon, in the aggregate, that measure 35 m or less in overall length;

      • (e) two hatchery coho salmon and wild coho salmon, in the aggregate, that measure more than 35 m in overall length; or

      • (f) four hatchery coho salmon and wild coho salmon, in the aggregate.
    • (2) No person shall catch and retain in a day more than four salmon, in the aggregate, from all waters.


      There’s nothing saying you aren’t legal to posses your freshwater and tidal water possession limits, with the corresponding valid licenses, concurrently. I get the daily limit reg as how are they to keep track of where you were that day btwn tidal and non-tidal?

      For comparison, Washington and Oregon have quite complex regs and in some circumstances you can’t posses any of some spp if targeting another.

      Cheers!

      Ukee
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018 at 11:19 AM
  19. mbowers

    mbowers Active Member

    I got the text I quoted about 8 salmon total possession from the BC Sport Fishing Guide.

    https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/docs/sfg-gps-2018-eng.pdf

    I found this on the Government of Canada Justice Laws website. There is no mention of tidal or non tidal water for where the fish are caught. Looks like the regs has been in effect since 1996.

    British Columbia Sport Fishing Regulations, 1996 - SOR/96-137 (Section 13)

    • 13 (1) No person shall possess more fish of a species, other than halibut, except at the person’s ordinary residence, than twice the daily quota for fish of that species prescribed by these Regulations
    There are more complicated regs in other areas but BC is pretty complicated based on my travels. Boats in Florida are starting to label fish legally caught in the Bahamas as "Ship's Stores" which is food for the crew. That prevents Florida from enforcing its limits while transporting legal fish from the Bahamas. Might also be useful technique in BC for multi day trips on boats when moving from one area to another with different limits.

    http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-96-40/
     
  20. UkeeDreamin

    UkeeDreamin Well-Known Member

    Hmmm, that’s the first time I’ve seen that and it’s inconsistent throughout the guide. When in doubt, the actual regs take precedence over the Guide, which is supposed to be a summary and simplification of the regs, but obviously with the complexity of the regs this doesn’t always occue. Going to the regs, they very clearly state what a possession limit is - I.e. two daily limits. The regs do not address, anywhere in them, what impact differing limits in differing areas, such as offshore areas being closed to wild coho, while inshore waters are open to retention of wild coho. They also don’t speak to a prohibition against keeping both your salt and freshwater limits, so long as you follow the regs under each license.

    I will say this, my DoJ friend doesn’t mince words with respect to DFO’s lack of clarity and confusing regs and has advised me before that where there are contradictions, it is pretty much impossible to enforce charges unless there is evidence of malicious intent. On that note, DFO may want to address the 3 halibut possession info still up on an endorsed website!

    Cheers!

    Ukee
     
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