Public Fishery Alliance strategies to address impactsof Pinnipeds on Early Fraser Chinook

I don't doubt that seals and sea lions predate on salmonids, young and old, but that "blog" page needs improvement. It leaves me with a lot of questions that need answering, before I would consider supporting the "Public Fishery Alliance."

Firstly, why is the Public Fishery Alliance withholding the identity of its member(s)? Who are they, what are their credentials on this subject, and what are their goals? I need transparency, especially nowadays.

Secondly, that article needs to state references to its figures, charts, and quotes, so that readers can understand the various claims and opinions which have been made. A lot of the material in that article is vague and without context or named sources, especially the charts. It also mentions "a workshop 'Pinnipeds & Impacts on Salmon—Workshop Proceedings 2019' ”. What workshop was this? Got a link to it?

If readers could read the original references, or at least were told the sources of some of this information, they would gain a better understanding of the "Alliance's" message.

The article also needs to correct at least one apparent gross contradiction: That first chart, titled "Steelhead in Harbour Seal Diet in 2012 & 2013" indicates seals' consumption rates of steelhead smolts of between 0% and about 1.5%, yet just below that chart, it is claimed that 74% of smolts are eaten. The sources of that chart, and that 74% reference, are missing, so I'm left confused.

The explanation of stream-type and ocean-type chinook is informative.

But overall, in my opinion, I don't think much public support will be garnered from that article, as it's presently written.

I don't think you understand what social media is or a blog @Birdbrain ? I actually think the post shared references as to where some of the information was gathered for a social media post, which not many do. A Blog or Social Media post is a chance to share an opinion or ideas to create some dialogue. Ideas were put forward in the Blog post about pinnipeds being one of several challenging issues facing Fraser River Chinook and Steelhead stocks. It was also to draw attention to an issue that needs to be looked at and at this point has had little action on. It pointed out that they're several possible steps to address predation on salmon and steelhead smolts that could be taken not just one solution.

What do you propose as solutions @Birdbrain ? It easy to sit back and be an armchair quarterback!
 
I believe Birdbrain was simply making suggestions to improve your overall message.
Imo, there are no solutions to dwindling upper Fraser chinooks and Thompson steelhead; too many fingers in the pie, too few spawners, and now another obstruction, to recover them. They are basically finished, the only question is how long we will try to protect them.
 
I don't doubt that seals and sea lions predate on salmonids, young and old, but that "blog" page needs improvement. It leaves me with a lot of questions that need answering, before I would consider supporting the "Public Fishery Alliance."

Firstly, why is the Public Fishery Alliance withholding the identity of its member(s)? Who are they, what are their credentials on this subject, and what are their goals? I need transparency, especially nowadays.

Secondly, that article needs to state references to its figures, charts, and quotes, so that readers can understand the various claims and opinions which have been made. A lot of the material in that article is vague and without context or named sources, especially the charts. It also mentions "a workshop 'Pinnipeds & Impacts on Salmon—Workshop Proceedings 2019' ”. What workshop was this? Got a link to it?

If readers could read the original references, or at least were told the sources of some of this information, they would gain a better understanding of the "Alliance's" message.

The article also needs to correct at least one apparent gross contradiction: That first chart, titled "Steelhead in Harbour Seal Diet in 2012 & 2013" indicates seals' consumption rates of steelhead smolts of between 0% and about 1.5%, yet just below that chart, it is claimed that 74% of smolts are eaten. The sources of that chart, and that 74% reference, are missing, so I'm left confused.

The explanation of stream-type and ocean-type chinook is informative.

But overall, in my opinion, I don't think much public support will be garnered from that article, as it's presently written.


Good morning Birdbrain ( * Note SFBC Admin that is the member's forum 'handle' so no disrespect whatsover ! ;) ,

I'd suggest contacting the PFA directly from the website (or FB) for more information and any specific details about the organization that you'd like to know. The PFA clearly would like to increase membership so certainly transparency is important and obviously needed. Absolutely makes sense to want to know more before joining any membership and offering support to their cause.

With regards to seeing a contradiction in the charts/graphs they published around Steelhead smolts consumed, I would also suggest you contact PFA directly about that. They would certainly appreciate that kind of feedback and as well explain perhaps why the charts/graphs may show differences in % when referring to Steelhead smolt predation. If there is a discrepancy then it should be explained or if necessary, corrected. Again as mentioned, the blog is not only to inform but also to create feedback/dialogue. I think they would appreciate any direct feedback you can provide.

Your comment that by PFA providing the name of a workshop and that it took place in 2019 as not providing readers enough information on that workshop, I can only respond by disagreeing with you on that one. Its a is a 'blog' and there actually was a reference provided as well . Just an FYI that just now while writing this post all it took was a quick search on Google and I located it. I searched the workshop name just exactly how it was written in the PFA blog and I found it. My search brought me to this http://mmru.ubc.ca/personnel/rosen/. Trites/Rosen 2019. Scroll to 2019 Publications and bingo I found it in less than 1 minute! As Shell Busey says, "It's just that easy ! "
 
I believe Birdbrain was simply making suggestions to improve your overall message.
Imo, there are no solutions to dwindling upper Fraser chinooks and Thompson steelhead; too many fingers in the pie, too few spawners, and now another obstruction, to recover them. They are basically finished, the only question is how long we will try to protect them.

Thanks yeah I felt Birdbrain offered some valuable feedback as well. The rest of your post just made me more depressed though ! I feel there is still hope but then again I have always had "glass half full " rather than "glass half empty" attitude. Maybe I am the "bird brain" lol
 
I believe Birdbrain was simply making suggestions to improve your overall message.
Imo, there are no solutions to dwindling upper Fraser chinooks and Thompson steelhead; too many fingers in the pie, too few spawners, and now another obstruction, to recover them. They are basically finished, the only question is how long we will try to protect them.

@Dave I am personally not throwing in the towel on Upper Fraser Chinook or Thompson Steelhead. I know many others who aren't as well. It certainly is a very daunting challenge to try to aid in a recovery of these stocks, but not one without several possible actions to aid in this happening. I do agree with your comment about "too many fingers in the pie". I would also add a incredible lack of leadership from our Federal Government on real recovery measures as opposed to politically motivated actions!
 
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I don't think you understand what social media is or a blog @Birdbrain ? I actually think the post shared references as to where some of the information was gathered for a social media post, which not many do. A Blog or Social Media post is a chance to share an opinion or ideas to create some dialogue. Ideas were put forward in the Blog post about pinnipeds being one of several challenging issues facing Fraser River Chinook and Steelhead stocks. It was also to draw attention to an issue that needs to be looked at and at this point has had little action on. It pointed out that they're several possible steps to address predation on salmon and steelhead smolts that could be taken not just one solution.

What do you propose as solutions @Birdbrain ? It easy to sit back and be an armchair quarterback!
Thanks for reminding me of the limitations of social media. I'm not into that, except for a couple of fishing forums.

I'm also from a science background, so the more accurate and verifiable info, the better for me. But just generally speaking, I think we all know that the ecology of our oceans has been negatively impacted by us humans, in many ways. We just have to be careful when we're looking into possible fixes, that we look at the big picture, and try to consider as much of the complexity of nature as possible.

As for solutions to pinniped-salmonid issues, I think it would be most effective if there was a single, cooperative task force comprised of the most knowledgeable people, such as scientists, First Nations, anglers, and commercial fishers.

By the way, how come you put an "@" in front of my name?
 
... As for solutions to pinniped-salmonid issues, I think it would be most effective if there was a single, cooperative task force comprised of the most knowledgeable people, such as scientists, First Nations, anglers, and commercial fishers...

To a large extent that has already occurred.
And the behind-the-scenes actions to date are actually quite amazing.

Nog
 
As for solutions to pinniped-salmonid issues, I think it would be most effective if there was a single, cooperative task force comprised of the most knowledgeable people, such as scientists, First Nations, anglers, and commercial fishers.

its already scientifically established that seals/sea lions eat the most salmon by piece and killer whales eat the most by weight.

The % that humans are catching is going down while the % that killer whales and seal are harvesting is going up.

If you wish to inform yourself there is countless studies like this out there

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8
 
its already scientifically established that seals/sea lions eat the most salmon by piece and killer whales eat the most by weight.

The % that humans are catching is going down while the % that killer whales and seal are harvesting is going up.

If you wish to inform yourself there is countless studies like this out there

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8
Thanks, WMY. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go down this rabbit-hole or not, neither. Besides the numerous, confirmed strong anecdotal 1st hand observations - here's some additional published articles to consider:
https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/cjfas-2015-0558#.Xqh7FG5Fy1s
https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/cjfas-2016-0203#.Xqh52G5Fy1s
https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/cjfas-2017-0481#.Xqh5m25Fy1s
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1890/05-1941
http://www.marinemammal.org/wp-content/pdfs/Allegue_2018.pdf
 
Thanks for reminding me of the limitations of social media. I'm not into that, except for a couple of fishing forums.

I'm also from a science background, so the more accurate and verifiable info, the better for me. But just generally speaking, I think we all know that the ecology of our oceans has been negatively impacted by us humans, in many ways. We just have to be careful when we're looking into possible fixes, that we look at the big picture, and try to consider as much of the complexity of nature as possible.

As for solutions to pinniped-salmonid issues, I think it would be most effective if there was a single, cooperative task force comprised of the most knowledgeable people, such as scientists, First Nations, anglers, and commercial fishers.

By the way, how come you put an "@" in front of my name?
@Birdbrain To answer your question on most social media platforms, including this forum, when you put a @ in front of the persons name or forum name it notifies them of the post.
 
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