Prawn Limit Decreased to 125 April 1st 2020

[the butcher]

Reading this thread, I see some pretty true and alarming statements. One that is not true is that this cut is in the name of conservation.
This is reallocation to commercial fishing (FN and /or traditional commercial sector makes no difference) and nothing more. I think it is important that we remember prawn management is not done based on quota alone or at all I believe?
It is measured by spawner index of commercial catch and contracted off season test sets. As long as the minimum number of egg barring prawns are observed in traps being hauled then harvest continues in that area. Once that is a no longer the case, that area closes and a very mobile fleet simply runs to the next area to fish it to the minimum.

If we look back to the original notice of impending reductions from a year ago, we see in the wording that the commercial prawn harvest is one of the most lucrative. They have had a more difficult time achieving the numbers of past catches. ( not a direct quote, but it was in there in some form ). No **** it is harder. The fleet increased in size by something like roughly 300% in a relatively short amount of time. Also they have become very mobile. Many are able to continue fishing long after they have dried up their traditional areas by simply moving to the next.

To me what is alarming is that despite strong efforts by sfab to get DFO to look at the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of the current model for indexing the biomass , along with other suggestions, DFO has taken the easy way out yet again. 200 or 125 , may not seem that significant on its own.
To put it in perspective as I see it. Regardless of the rec sector getting 200,125 or none at all, the commercial sectors will fish the biomass to the minimum so long as it is marketable. It just means more for some and less for others, doing nothing to contribute to conservation of the resource.
It is by my way of looking, the cumulative affect of all these never ending cuts in the name of reallocation being passed off as conservation measures ( clearly in the denial or ignorance to contradicting science ) that will be most costly to everyone, fish included.

This may be my last year as well. For all of it. It is getting harder each year to enjoy when at every turn we are being judged and persecuted for doing what we love.
The writing has been on the wall for years. We are just seeing it speed up exponentially now. Unless there is a monumental change in how government treats the resource and those who depend on it, we all will be off the water regardless of sector. We just happen to be easiest so therefore first.

Those trying to see it be otherwise will always have my admiration and respect for the work you do.

Well said jencourt. Well said. There is SO much than can be done if DFO was truely interested in REAL conservation and resource management initiatives. No talk and ******** sitting behind a desk thinking that managing a resource through cutting recreational allocation will solve the issue because it will NOT. I can't speak for all but I can attest for myself that I would hang up my fishing rod, traps and gear and would have no issues with a huge cut or 100% non retention of any resource so as long as I am confident that all other sectors(FN, Commercial) are also cut accordingly based on the volumes/weight of what each sector takes out of the oceans and i am confident that these decisions are based on science and evidence and that we are doing it to allow us or our children to enjoy the resource down the road. But that will never happen because DFO does not have the courage or the balls to make the tough cuts to either FN or Commercial. They don't want to be dealing with protestors(FN or commercial) outside of their offices, blockades at docks, roads etc... I have been told that DFO is terrified of pissing off either FN or Commercial sectors because they don't want to deal with the heat from these folks so as a result they are careful and minimize the impacts to actual numbers. They may push the season back like they did last year but they won't change quotas or harvest figures for either sector. So, the easy guy to point a finger towards and shove around and imposed idiotic regulations which may have next to ZERO impact is the recreational sector. Just so that they can say they did something.

 

[mbowers]

WTF has the coonstripe shrimp limit been dropped 125 as well? Is there anything but a recreational harvest for them?

 

[wolf]

Its plain and simple guys sportfisherman are low hanging fruit easy to be picked off as dfo will not upset FN or commercial as they have the power to sue them and sportfishermen do not so they pick on us, there will be more and more of this to come , I made a plea 20 years ago to put the 50/50 moneies at a major derby into a trust fund and something we could add to if we wanted to, can you imagine if at that major derby everyone putting a 100 bucks or more into the pot we would have had a nice nest egg to file suits etc... people said we would never get to this point and I was over reacting well look where we are now......

 

[ziggy]

Some good thoughts on here! Hope we all take the time to forward our concerns to the Minister via at least email but even better via letter. Often the Government considers email as informal correspondence. Time to hit them with the unbalanced approach to conservation their managers are taking! The bias that is so apparent in their decision making against the average citizens access to a common resource. How industry is allowed to lie to the Public and call the Commercial Fishery “Sustainable” when it surely must be in trouble.

 

[IronNoggin]

... Are first nations quotas also affected?

Yes. The main reason behind these new restrictions is to allow for reallocations to FN's. Not so much "new" reallocations, but rather a reflection of what is already transpiring out on the water (and has been for a significant length of time).
So they are indeed "affected", however in a positive manner.

The Commercial end of things demanded no hit to them, and got what they demanded.
Their so-called manager actually believes in their "management plan" even though it has been well proven to be faulty and actually contributing to declining populations. Rape and pillage time.

The Madness continues...
Nog

 

[the butcher]

Is there any hope for the recreational sector? I can appreciate the hard work done by a number of key people who were the voice of the recreational fishing community during the ******** Chinook nonretention thing happened last year. They spent countless days and weeks gathering data, taking time out of their day to do presentations to DFO, showing them the science and data behind why their decision didn't make sense etc etc... I wrote letters and so did a lot of you. This is what DFO encouraged. They stated they would listen and hear what options were available and they would with various stakeholder groups to devise a plan that made sense. They wanted our input and ideas into the direction we should pursue. All ********. False hope. They had no intentions of collaboration nor were they Interested in considering other ideas and options. All smoke and puffery to make it sound like they considered all options.

It feels like we have no choice but to bend over and to continue being raped out of enjoying our own resources with no say in the matter.

Ministers and government people don't like being publicly called out and they don't want to deal with determined people(eg commercial and FN) because they would be continously hounded. How do we get a voice and make it be known that this ******** needs to stop? While it would be tough for me to hang up the rod and reel, looking at my kids and the many many other young children in this province, if their dads, grandfathers and parents don't get a chance to do what they love, it will be lost upon our children and the upcoming generations of children. What a disaster.

To me this isn't about reductions in my quota. It's about the removal and possibly sometime down the road an elimination of a right which I feel as a taxpaying and contributing member of this province I deserve just as much as any other group be it FN, commercial etc.. I dont know the history, but look at the Atlantic provinces and the lobster fishery. There is nonrention of lobster for the recreational fishery. It is only for the taking for the commercial sector. And once again, a large percent of that harvest is exported. So the commercial sector and mismanagement of the lobster fishery resulted in a scarce resource but the sector which created the problem is the only sector allowed to continue? If you think that type of a scenario can't happen here think again.

While it's not necessarily the end of the world with the reduction to the prawn quota, I think the import point is that DFO seems to continue to hammer and take away our priveldges knowing that we are easy targets and will not make a big stink about it. How do we get their attention and get them to treat us like the do with the other sectors? Now that's the million dollar question.

 

[Sangstercraft]

I dont know the history, but look at the Atlantic provinces and the lobster fishery. There is nonrention of lobster for the recreational fishery. It is only for the taking for the commercial sector. And once again, a large percent of that harvest is exported. So the commercial sector and mismanagement of the lobster fishery resulted in a scarce resource but the sector which created the problem is the only sector allowed to continue? If you think that type of a scenario can't happen here think again.

That's an interesting point that I did not know.

 

[ChinookExerciser]

Is there any hope for the recreational sector? I can appreciate the hard work done by a number of key people who were the voice of the recreational fishing community during the ******** Chinook nonretention thing happened last year. They spent countless days and weeks gathering data, taking time out of their day to do presentations to DFO, showing them the science and data behind why their decision didn't make sense etc etc... I wrote letters and so did a lot of you. This is what DFO encouraged. They stated they would listen and hear what options were available and they would with various stakeholder groups to devise a plan that made sense. They wanted our input and ideas into the direction we should pursue. All ********. False hope. They had no intentions of collaboration nor were they Interested in considering other ideas and options. All smoke and puffery to make it sound like they considered all options.

IT took FN 30+ years of doing that sort of stuff to get change and you expect it to happen because you wrote one letter? Look at Wolfs point he has it right. We needed massive fundraising efforts over the last 30 years.

 

[Prawn Star]

Can someone post a link to the fishery notice that pertains to this change. I have searched the DFO site but cannot find the notice in question.

 

[Scorpiofisher]

Is there any hope for the recreational sector? I can appreciate the hard work done by a number of key people who were the voice of the recreational fishing community during the ******** Chinook nonretention thing happened last year. They spent countless days and weeks gathering data, taking time out of their day to do presentations to DFO, showing them the science and data behind why their decision didn't make sense etc etc... I wrote letters and so did a lot of you. This is what DFO encouraged. They stated they would listen and hear what options were available and they would with various stakeholder groups to devise a plan that made sense. They wanted our input and ideas into the direction we should pursue. All ********. False hope. They had no intentions of collaboration nor were they Interested in considering other ideas and options. All smoke and puffery to make it sound like they considered all options.

It feels like we have no choice but to bend over and to continue being raped out of enjoying our own resources with no say in the matter.

Ministers and government people don't like being publicly called out and they don't want to deal with determined people(eg commercial and FN) because they would be continously hounded. How do we get a voice and make it be known that this ******** needs to stop? While it would be tough for me to hang up the rod and reel, looking at my kids and the many many other young children in this province, if their dads, grandfathers and parents don't get a chance to do what they love, it will be lost upon our children and the upcoming generations of children. What a disaster.

To me this isn't about reductions in my quota. It's about the removal and possibly sometime down the road an elimination of a right which I feel as a taxpaying and contributing member of this province I deserve just as much as any other group be it FN, commercial etc.. I dont know the history, but look at the Atlantic provinces and the lobster fishery. There is nonrention of lobster for the recreational fishery. It is only for the taking for the commercial sector. And once again, a large percent of that harvest is exported. So the commercial sector and mismanagement of the lobster fishery resulted in a scarce resource but the sector which created the problem is the only sector allowed to continue? If you think that type of a scenario can't happen here think again.

While it's not necessarily the end of the world with the reduction to the prawn quota, I think the import point is that DFO seems to continue to hammer and take away our priveldges knowing that we are easy targets and will not make a big stink about it. How do we get their attention and get them to treat us like the do with the other sectors? Now that's the million dollar question.

Sport sector needs to lawyer up I think. The only way we get a voice is to go get it ourselves. The government has a history of losing court cases....remember Alexandra Morton. And if nothing else, it will help shine a light on the mismanagement of our pacific fisheries.

 

[the butcher]

IT took FN 30+ years of doing that sort of stuff to get change and you expect it to happen because you wrote one letter? Look at Wolfs point he has it right. We needed massive fundraising efforts over the last 30 years.

Come on... Dont insult my intelligence by your misinterpretation of my post. Nowhere did I state nor did I infer that by writing 1 letter it will result in change or get DFOs attention. That was never the intention of the letters anyways. The goal was for us to get lots of emails out so that their inboxes would be full of emails indicating that the impact the decision has. The objective was for each one of us to send a well written letter and that's what I did. How do we get their attention and to instill change for the better? I don't know and that's exactly what I wrote in my original post by saying that's the million dollar question. Let's not be a smart-butt and misquote or make assumptions on intent from other people's posts. We are all in this together with the same objective and we are on the same team.

When you state we needed massive fund rasing over the past 30 years... Since we haven't done so is it game over? Should we roll over and die because we didn't do what we should have for the past 30 years? Yes I agree with you our sector should have done more to protect our interests but we haven't. So how do we move on and do a proper job going forward? I hope we figure this out sooner rather than later.

By the way, I have written numerous letters to DFO and government officials about last year's decision. I have left voicemail messages on their office lines. I have come into a few businesses who campaigned for us last year and personally thanked the guys and the companies who were our voices last year. Have I done enough? I don't think so. There is room for improvement on my part. Sadly I also know of anglers who did absolutely nothing.

As with your comments about what FN has done and how long they have fought the battle. I see your points but don't know if it's valid. Do we have the ability to create roadblocks and bring out weapons to protest government policies? Do we get special treatment and do government officials and police use "gentle and patient gloves" when dealing with the general public to the same extent as FN receives? Want to be clear I have no issues with FN people but rather how this government treats or handles cases involving FN completely different than with any other canadian. So we can't simply do what they do in order to accomplish our goals.

I have no idea how we as a group overcome this challenges. However, just accepting it and not putting up a fight as we have done so concerns me deeply.

By the way, I have written to DFO resource managers about this recent change as well. They have yet and I don't expect they will respond.

 

[Ryan A]

Sent my 1st letter to Bernadette, got a reply that she was away from the office and had no access to that email which I find ridiculous in this day and age.

 

[the butcher]

Can someone post a link to the fishery notice that pertains to this change. I have searched the DFO site but cannot find the notice in question.

Not sure if it's an internal document but there was a document of past and upcoming DFO measures that was posted on a Facebook page. It's effective Apr 1st. DFO have confirmed with me it's official and but they won't post the notice until closer to the date.

 

[Aces]

Their divide and conquer strategy is working well......again

 

[ChinookExerciser]

Come on... Dont insult my intelligence by your misinterpretation of my post. Nowhere did I state nor did I infer that by writing 1 letter it will result in change or get DFOs attention. That was never the intention of the letters anyways. The goal was for us to get lots of emails out so that their inboxes would be full of emails indicating that the impact the decision has. The objective was for each one of us to send a well written letter and that's what I did. How do we get their attention and to instill change for the better? I don't know and that's exactly what I wrote in my original post by saying that's the million dollar question. Let's not be a smart-butt and misquote or make assumptions on intent from other people's posts. We are all in this together with the same objective and we are on the same team.

When you state we needed massive fund rasing over the past 30 years... Since we haven't done so is it game over? Should we roll over and die because we didn't do what we should have for the past 30 years? Yes I agree with you our sector should have done more to protect our interests but we haven't. So how do we move on and do a proper job going forward? I hope we figure this out sooner rather than later.

By the way, I have written numerous letters to DFO and government officials about last year's decision. I have left voicemail messages on their office lines. I have come into a few businesses who campaigned for us last year and personally thanked the guys and the companies who were our voices last year. Have I done enough? I don't think so. There is room for improvement on my part. Sadly I also know of anglers who did absolutely nothing.

As with your comments about what FN has done and how long they have fought the battle. I see your points but don't know if it's valid. Do we have the ability to create roadblocks and bring out weapons to protest government policies? Do we get special treatment and do government officials and police use "gentle and patient gloves" when dealing with the general public to the same extent as FN receives? Want to be clear I have no issues with FN people but rather how this government treats or handles cases involving FN completely different than with any other canadian. So we can't simply do what they do in order to accomplish our goals.

I have no idea how we as a group overcome this challenges. However, just accepting it and not putting up a fight as we have done so concerns me deeply.

By the way, I have written to DFO resource managers about this recent change as well. They have yet and I don't expect they will respond.

I fish the Fraser we already rolled over and died. RIP, Wanna buy my jet boat?

 

[CRmark]

Can someone post a link to the fishery notice that pertains to this change. I have searched the DFO site but cannot find the notice in question.

It took some digging but here is the link to the consultation which closes on Feb 10/2020:
Public consultations 2020-2021 Integrated Fisheries Management Plan (IFMP) Prawn and Shrimp by Trap
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/consultation/shell-crust/psc-csc/index-eng.html

Then you get the email to contact DFO to get a copy of the draft plan.

Laurie Convey Laurie.Convey@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Except she is away until Jan 27 so you get referred to:
Mike.Kattilakoski@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
K.M. (Mike) Kattilakoski
Fish Management Coordinator - Invertebrates
DFO/Government of Canada

He responded within a day by emailing the 160 page document in pdf format.

On page 18 it addresses the Recreational limits:
4.2.2. Recreational - DFO understands the importance of the prawn fishery resource to all who depend on it for their
sustenance, livelihood and recreation. DFO’s role is to manage all fishery resources with a cautious
approach to ensure sustainability into the future. In recent years, the recreational harvest of prawns
has grown, with increasing urban populations, increasing interest and advances in fishing gear and
equipment (e.g. chart plotters, power trap haulers). The recreational daily limit for all shrimps,
including prawns, has not changed since 1996. As part of it’s precautionary management
framework, DFO has consulted with the SFAB on the issue of reducing the recreational daily limit
for prawn and shrimp for the past four years, and more extensively in the last year to develop
proposals. The SFAB recommended a smaller reduction than DFO proposed and has suggested
that a reduction in the daily limit amounts to a reallocation to other sectors. While the daily limit
does not restrict the total catch of the whole fishery, it can help in limiting effort in recreational
fisheries that consist of numerous and often dispersed operations that might otherwise be difficult
to limit. DFO is implementing a new daily limit of 125 prawn and shrimp combined for April 1,
2020. DFO will work with the SFAB on an engagement plan to continue to discuss management
measures in the recreational prawn fishery and improvements to catch reporting.

 

[Aces]

No worries. Everything is all sunshine and unicorns

 

[the butcher]

What a bunch of ********. I'd rather DFO shut their mouths and not justify a dumb decision than to make **** up. In that document, they state their decision is due to the increase in recreational harvest of prawns due to population growth and advances in technology of fishing gear like chart plotters and trap haulers? WTF do chartplotter have to do with advancements in prawning gear? You think a chart plotter can give me precise coordinates for every prawn honey hole? Are they saying a few years ago every single recreational prawners hauled their traps by hand? And by the way, chartplotters and trap haulers have been around for decades. Look at how many generations of ace hauler there are and chartplottets go back 25+ years or more.

They also state the daily reduction would not restrict the total catch of the entire fishery. Yet earlier in the report they state the reason for the reduction in recreational was the increased harvest due to population and popularity growth and "advances" in equipment. These points are contradictory. Who the hell writes this stuff for DFO? An intern?

 

[wolf]

HENCE what you have discovered, many years ago in one of the meeting that I used to go to and after being lied to time and time I finally said at the board" You know I dont like being lied to but at least by me dinner before you **** me over " I have fought with these clowns over 30 years , I wish you all best of luck but until you can really sit down with some sort of representation that will accually listen to the views they will always walk all over us .ONLY once when we had huge town hall Rally's where 700 plus people showed(re halibut) up did DFO really go whooooaaa and they backed off when only 10 or so show up to a sfab meeting they sit back and laugh at us inside... as it appears no ones gives a **** , And as much as you want to scream and yell at these guys when that did happen then they only wanted closed door meetings, cause we scared them....

 

[the butcher]

You are 100% correct Wolf. It's all about who can foam at the mouth, yell and scream at the top of their lungs, chain themselves outside DFO offices, confront DFO staff and leadership, and do whatever it takes and for as LONG as it takes to make those DFO morons lives miserable. This is why there are rarely any changes to regulations for either the commies or FN because those 2 groups would not sit still and would make the DFO morons lives so miserable.. At the end of the day we as a group are easy to pick on and we don't fight back. Simple as that.

Our version of fighting back is to write letters and to attend meetings where we politely and in a civilized manner present our evidence, data, and the science behind our positions. As a group we need to change tactics. What we have been doing isn't working and will never work in my opinion. I don't sit here on my computer pretending to Monday night armchair quarterback. These are difficult and complex issues. We are in a tough position without much political, economic or public backing. Rather than trying to tackle this ourselves as the recreational fishing sector... PERHAPS we need to partner with other interest groups who are affected by DFO decisions.. Eg, the various BC regional chambers of commerce, tourism BC, the travel, hotel, restaurant, and hospitality industry. We are all well aware of the direct and I direct financial impact last year's Chinook policy had on the BC economy. These decisions don't just affect the recreational sector. Perhaps partnering with other interest groups will give us a louder and a more prominent voice that will get more attention and the respect we deserve. I don't know. Maybe it's easier if I stop giving a damn because the writing is on the wall.