Port alberni Inlet massacre

Whitebuck said:
Would be great if the hatchery got more funding to allow for more than 21,000 for brood allotment.

Maybe if all user groups are wanting more fish then they should be pushing for more hatcheries.

Hopefully FN would be smart and push this agenda rather than just taking from other user groups that support the local economy.

Ahhh to dream...
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I share that dream. In a perfect world, we'd all just have plenty of wilds to go around but I no longer see that as a realistic plan.

I'd like to see provincial, federal, private and first nations hatcheries everywhere.
 
Hmm. Well I guess I will think twice before I donate towards hatcherys. I always thought of it as a put and take fishery and have donated a few dollars the last few yrs.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, Shame on me.

There is a way to fight this. We have other options for federal party's who wont be bossed around by the UN...
 
ILHG said:
Hmm. Well I guess I will think twice before I donate towards hatcherys. I always thought of it as a put and take fishery and have donated a few dollars the last few yrs.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, Shame on me.

There is a way to fight this. We have other options for federal party's who wont be bossed around by the UN...
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I don't think our position as a UN member would change under new leadership... I'm honestly not even sure if there's ever been an indigenous sovereignty issue that has needed to go as far as the UN. Pretty sure it usually just goes to the Supreme Court of Canada... I'm just saying there is UN legislation that guarantees native rights...

Personally the thing that boils my blood is all the commercial harvest that is still allowed and particularly commercial harvest going on with runs that are funded largely by tax dollars and (I'm assuming) the proceeds of licensing fees etc from sport guys.

Why should everyone have to subsidize a very small user group that is purely harvesting to line their own pockets with cash? Don't get me wrong... People in FN communities that use their status to essentially be unregistered commercial guys is appalling to me as well... I would vote in favour of legislation within my nation that restricts harvest to only that which is necessary to feed our families.
 
TheDude said:
I don't think our position as a UN member would change under new leadership... I'm honestly not even sure if there's ever been an indigenous sovereignty issue that has needed to go as far as the UN. Pretty sure it usually just goes to the Supreme Court of Canada... I'm just saying there is UN legislation that guarantees native rights...

Personally the thing that boils my blood is all the commercial harvest that is still allowed and particularly commercial harvest going on with runs that are funded largely by tax dollars and (I'm assuming) the proceeds of licensing fees etc from sport guys.

Why should everyone have to subsidize a very small user group that is purely harvesting to line their own pockets with cash? Don't get me wrong... People in FN communities that use their status to essentially be unregistered commercial guys is appalling to me as well... I would vote in favour of legislation within my nation that restricts harvest to only that which is necessary to feed our families.
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Supreme Court judges are appointed by the federal govt and that's the problem. Activist, leftwing judges have taken control of the country because Trudy's daddie's flawed constitution has given them the power to over rule politicians and therefore the population. We need a federal govt that will appoint judges that represent the mainstream Canadians or politicians who are willing to exercise the "not withstanding" clause the way that Que regularly does.
 
TheDude said:
I don't think our position as a UN member would change under new leadership... I'm honestly not even sure if there's ever been an indigenous sovereignty issue that has needed to go as far as the UN. Pretty sure it usually just goes to the Supreme Court of Canada... I'm just saying there is UN legislation that guarantees native rights...

Personally the thing that boils my blood is all the commercial harvest that is still allowed and particularly commercial harvest going on with runs that are funded largely by tax dollars and (I'm assuming) the proceeds of licensing fees etc from sport guys.

Why should everyone have to subsidize a very small user group that is purely harvesting to line their own pockets with cash? Don't get me wrong... People in FN communities that use their status to essentially be unregistered commercial guys is appalling to me as well... I would vote in favour of legislation within my nation that restricts harvest to only that which is necessary to feed our families.
Click to expand...

O’Toole is no big fan of the UN. As an ex military man I think he understands their policies and intent better than most, certainly better than the retard and his cabinet that are in power now. Yes the UN has its place but we are a sovereign nation and can and will make and enforce our own laws and constitution. His government won’t be so quick to bend over for them.
 
Any word as to how escapement is tracking? Unless there is another significant wave of fish (and there does seem to be a fairly decent push going past ukee) I would think the huge commercial/FN take during the bulk of the run could be a problem.
 
StormTrooper said:
Unfortunately Canada has fully adopted hundreds of UN inniatives that affect the lives of every single person and community in Canada. They are fully on track with Agenda 21 and Agenda 2050. The UN inniatives are at all levels of government including Fed, provincial and municipal. Why do you think we have MPA's and LPA's all over Canada. Why do you think almost every city is working on reserved spaces, extreme water protection, climate taxes and more. The UN agenda has long been engrained into shifting Canada since Sr. Trudeau. Why do you think we have the constitution that we have today. Our existing constitution gives you privileges, not rights. Why do you think we have a Federal tidal water fishing license ever since the existing constitution was implemented by Sr. Trudeau?! We have fishing privileges not rights. There are lots of other rights that were turned into privileges also.

The people of Canada were never consulted and we did not vote to create what Sr. did, there was no province to province consulting...the fool's that we all are, totally and silently have always just blundered along with it all. We never questioned it what so ever.

We are all in it together.

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There was no trudeau sr.... There's just a castro jr in office right now.
Birdman said:
Any word as to how escapement is tracking? Unless there is another significant wave of fish (and there does seem to be a fairly decent push going past ukee) I would think the huge commercial/FN take during the bulk of the run could be a problem.
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I agree with your hypothesis there. As much as I believe in native rights due my own personal bias... commercial fishing needs to end, whether its FN EO fisheries, or purely private enterprises.
 
Escapement is just over 9200 at the falls and 4 for sproat river.

Goal is 21,000 for hatchery.

Catch from all sectors is 79,000.

Escapement is 9200.

Isn't this alittle like counting your chickens before they hatch, the last roundtable notes is hoping there is a strong back end of the run to ensure the escapement is met.

Still unsure how there is no backlash for the commercial gillnet grossly going over their allowed TAC.
 
PurgedTT said:
Escapement is just over 9200 at the falls and 4 for sproat river.

Goal is 21,000 for hatchery.

Catch from all sectors is 79,000.

Escapement is 9200.

Isn't this alittle like counting your chickens before they hatch, the last roundtable notes is hoping there is a strong back end of the run to ensure the escapement is met.

Still unsure how there is no backlash for the commercial gillnet grossly going over their allowed TAC.
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I would assume the success of a strong back end run is largely dependant on fall rains and a rise in water levels? I've been praying for some rain for a while now...
The commercial gillnet you're talking about is the Tseshaht EO guys? Or did the normal commercial guys get caught abusing quotas as well?
 
TheDude said:
I would assume the success of a strong back end run is largely dependant on fall rains and a rise in water levels? I've been praying for some rain for a while now...
The commercial gillnet you're talking about is the Tseshaht EO guys? Or did the normal commercial guys get caught abusing quotas as well?
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Normal Area D commies were allowed 13,000 TAC at the predicted run size and they ended up killing 25,000 springs.

Area B Seiners were allowed 6000, took 6000.

They were hoping the recs didn't do well so they could transfer the sport quota to offset the overfishing done by the gillnetters.
 
Birdman said:
Any word as to how escapement is tracking? Unless there is another significant wave of fish (and there does seem to be a fairly decent push going past ukee) I would think the huge commercial/FN take during the bulk of the run could be a problem.
Click to expand...
Only 11,500 escapement so far. Concerns raised that there may not be enough fish sitting in the flats to make it into the river to make up the difference, and there do not appear to be new waves of fish coming out in Barkley Sound.

Also concerns over the number of 3 year old smaller fish in the mix, reducing the potential egg production. The Round Table manages to ensure we pass around 20,000 fish into the river with sufficient larger females to provide the hatchery with enough eggs.

Decision made to hold off fishing this week until Thursday pending review of the number of fish that pass through the fish counters in the river. If we get to 15K or above then a decision will be made to have a small fishery aimed at catching the Recreational expected catch underage (about 3000 fish after accounting for the current Area D overage). Of note, the Seine fleet has not achieved their TAC, nor is it likely they can given the poor fishing outside Polly's point for them.

In other words, the expected rec catch was not met this season, and our underage has been passed along to cover the overage from other sectors. For the post-season review, the Rec sector has raise the issue of Chinook Conservation measures put in place to close Rainy Bay and San Mateo Bay to Rec fishing in an effort to protect some weaker Chinook stocks (Henderson and Nahmint). We have long argued these restrictions are not effective for the stated objective and in a fishery where the Rec sector cannot catch it's expected catch such restrictions are simply passing more fish along to other sectors to harvest. We will continue to seek amendments to these Chinook Conservation Measures and also press for no commercial net fisheries prior to the Labour Day Weekend. The objective being all sectors should be meeting their TAC harvest objectives, and fisheries designed to ensure same.

Another consideration in allowing commercial fisheries prior to Labour Day is in years where Labour Day comes early, we have agreement the commercial fishery will take place following it. However, in years where Labour Day is late, based on run timing, we have allowed a pre-Labour Day fishery. This approach has been a bone of contention, and will be subject of the Post-Season Review given the overage that may have impeded rec opportunity.
 
@searun . I have a question regarding the area D trollers and their overage. What’s happens to them? Fines? Whatever the penalty is it’s obviously not enough if they are willing to go over by that much. Maybe I’m missing something here? Also pulling 25-30k springs out of the water a week before a derby that brings millions to the area is a slap in the face in my opinion. Most guys had a pretty poor weekend to say the least. It’s not all about the rec sector or the derby but I’m pretty sure the commercial guys would have still caught all of their TAC even after the derby don’t you think? I don’t want to sound critical here because I know certain guys here like yourself put a lot of effort into these round tables and many other things but from an outsiders perspective it doesn’t seem to be working that well if every year the area gets over fished by one or two sectors and we have a tough time reaching escapement. This seems to happen with sockeye and springs.
 
searun said:
Only 11,500 escapement so far. Concerns raised that there may not be enough fish sitting in the flats to make it into the river to make up the difference, and there do not appear to be new waves of fish coming out in Barkley Sound.

In other words, the expected rec catch was not met this season, and our underage has been passed along to cover the overage from other sectors. For the post-season review, the Rec sector has raise the issue of Chinook Conservation measures put in place to close Rainy Bay and San Mateo Bay to Rec fishing in an effort to protect some weaker Chinook stocks (Henderson and Nahmint). We have long argued these restrictions are not effective for the stated objective and in a fishery where the Rec sector cannot catch it's expected catch such restrictions are simply passing more fish along to other sectors to harvest. We will continue to seek amendments to these Chinook Conservation Measures and also press for no commercial net fisheries prior to the Labour Day Weekend. The objective being all sectors should be meeting their TAC harvest objectives, and fisheries designed to ensure same.


Thank you for the information and for your efforts, Searun. Those of us who sport fish Alberni/Barkley Sound should appreciate the work your group does to represent rec fishers in the face of the often ridiculous decisions of DFO and demands of the commercial and FN sectors. It is more than frustrating to see the netting of fish stocks before it is known if escapements will be achieved.
Please keep us updated on the escapement numbers.
Click to expand...
 
searun said:
Only 11,500 escapement so far. Concerns raised that there may not be enough fish sitting in the flats to make it into the river to make up the difference, and there do not appear to be new waves of fish coming out in Barkley Sound.

Also concerns over the number of 3 year old smaller fish in the mix, reducing the potential egg production. The Round Table manages to ensure we pass around 20,000 fish into the river with sufficient larger females to provide the hatchery with enough eggs.

Decision made to hold off fishing this week until Thursday pending review of the number of fish that pass through the fish counters in the river. If we get to 15K or above then a decision will be made to have a small fishery aimed at catching the Recreational expected catch underage (about 3000 fish after accounting for the current Area D overage). Of note, the Seine fleet has not achieved their TAC, nor is it likely they can given the poor fishing outside Polly's point for them.

In other words, the expected rec catch was not met this season, and our underage has been passed along to cover the overage from other sectors. For the post-season review, the Rec sector has raise the issue of Chinook Conservation measures put in place to close Rainy Bay and San Mateo Bay to Rec fishing in an effort to protect some weaker Chinook stocks (Henderson and Nahmint). We have long argued these restrictions are not effective for the stated objective and in a fishery where the Rec sector cannot catch it's expected catch such restrictions are simply passing more fish along to other sectors to harvest. We will continue to seek amendments to these Chinook Conservation Measures and also press for no commercial net fisheries prior to the Labour Day Weekend. The objective being all sectors should be meeting their TAC harvest objectives, and fisheries designed to ensure same.

Another consideration in allowing commercial fisheries prior to Labour Day is in years where Labour Day comes early, we have agreement the commercial fishery will take place following it. However, in years where Labour Day is late, based on run timing, we have allowed a pre-Labour Day fishery. This approach has been a bone of contention, and will be subject of the Post-Season Review given the overage that may have impeded rec opportunity.
Click to expand...

Thx for all your hard work. Good luck at the round table.
 
This battle has been going on for years. The commercial guys want to catch the fish when they have value. The darker they get the less they are worth so they push to get on the water earlier. With the high rate of unemployment on Vancouver Island combined with the number of locals, seniors and tourists on holidays, what is the need to stick to the labour day weekend for the derby? If the derby was held on the previous weekend would there really be much difference in the amount of money generated for the community? Instead of always fighting a losing battle with DFO just move the date ahead and get out there before the annual bloodbath by the gillnetters.

BTW the gillnetters are only doing what DFO allows them to do. Any overages that the gillnetters have are on the backs of DFO. DFO sets the openings, the start and end times, the quota, the boundaries, etc etc. You would think after many years of this identical screw up DFO would have a better handle on things but it seems they are very slow learners.
 
onefish said:
This battle has been going on for years. The commercial guys want to catch the fish when they have value. The darker they get the less they are worth so they push to get on the water earlier. With the high rate of unemployment on Vancouver Island combined with the number of locals, seniors and tourists on holidays, what is the need to stick to the labour day weekend for the derby? If the derby was held on the previous weekend would there really be much difference in the amount of money generated for the community? Instead of always fighting a losing battle with DFO just move the date ahead and get out there before the annual bloodbath by the gillnetters.

BTW the gillnetters are only doing what DFO allows them to do. Any overages that the gillnetters have are on the backs of DFO. DFO sets the openings, the start and end times, the quota, the boundaries, etc etc. You would think after many years of this identical screw up DFO would have a better handle on things but it seems they are very slow learners.
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Why not force the gillnets into a quota fishery like every other commercial salmon fishery? Problem solved no more over harvesting. Now if we could just get accurate numbers from all sectors.........
 
fish4all said:
Why not force the gillnets into a quota fishery like every other commercial salmon fishery? Problem solved no more over harvesting. Now if we could just get accurate numbers from all sectors.........
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I assume you may be alluding to Public Fishery? Probably hard to justify hiring 300,000 advisors so we can all have one. I’d be happy to take one if he’s OK with the boredom, can count to ten and chips in for gas? Lol
 
Another nail in the coffin? Three hr opening 2000 pieces. I sure hope they know what the hell they are doing
FN0981-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net - Somass Chinook - Area D - Area 23 - Alberni Inlet - Opening September 18, 2020.
 
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