On a positive note, marine mammals survived in 35 to 40 c warmer water.
- Thread starter OldBlackDog
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Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Too bad that salmon and most of the plankton that supports the vast food chain of the north pacific does not!
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
I. The insignificance of modern “global warming”
Today’s ocean temperatures average about 16°C. CO2 levels hover around 400 parts per million (0.04%).
The oceans have warmed at a rate of just 0.015°C per decade since 1971 in the 0-700 m layer according to the IPCC (2013). This warming rate isn’t detectable when considering overall long-term changes in this layer (Rosenthal et al., 2017) during the Holocene.
Today’s ocean temperatures average about 16°C. CO2 levels hover around 400 parts per million (0.04%).
The oceans have warmed at a rate of just 0.015°C per decade since 1971 in the 0-700 m layer according to the IPCC (2013). This warming rate isn’t detectable when considering overall long-term changes in this layer (Rosenthal et al., 2017) during the Holocene.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
saltcod
Active Member
saltcod
Active Member
O.K. well here is what my Msc son, fish scientist, thought of this:
to use global average sea temperature changes when examining a localized species is misleading. The ocean has been warming unevenly, and of course, such a massive body of water will change temperature very slowly, but in some spots, especially further from the equator, change has been happening more rapidly. For species that only live in those zones, they are going to have a hard time coping with a rapid upward shift in temperatures.
to use global average sea temperature changes when examining a localized species is misleading. The ocean has been warming unevenly, and of course, such a massive body of water will change temperature very slowly, but in some spots, especially further from the equator, change has been happening more rapidly. For species that only live in those zones, they are going to have a hard time coping with a rapid upward shift in temperatures.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Well, it appears that species can adapt quite well.
Salmon, Coho is a predator fish that lives into the Pacific Ocean and the rivers flowing into it from northern Japan to the Anadyr River, Russia, and from P. Hope, Alaska south to Monterey Bay, California. Infrequently, it has been reported at sea as far south as Baja California (USA). Salmon Coho is has been transplanted into the Great Lakes (USA) and into freshwater lakes in Alaska and along the U.S. Pacific coast as well as into Maine, Maryland, and Louisiana in the east, Alberta in Canada, as well in South America like Argentina, and Chile .
Salmon, Coho is a predator fish that lives into the Pacific Ocean and the rivers flowing into it from northern Japan to the Anadyr River, Russia, and from P. Hope, Alaska south to Monterey Bay, California. Infrequently, it has been reported at sea as far south as Baja California (USA). Salmon Coho is has been transplanted into the Great Lakes (USA) and into freshwater lakes in Alaska and along the U.S. Pacific coast as well as into Maine, Maryland, and Louisiana in the east, Alberta in Canada, as well in South America like Argentina, and Chile .
GLG
Well-Known Member
Could you remind folks what happened to the coho smolts that the Puntledge River hatchery tried raising in too warm a water? What happened to that program now that the water that they use has increased in temperature?
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
GLG
Well-Known Member
And this has what to do with the difference between warm blooded, mammals, and cold blooded, fish, animals.
Your logic is mind boggling if you think that salmon can survive in a world that has oceans that are from 35 to 40c temperatures.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
From article on Chinook in South America . Ocean temperatures do not seem to be a concern there.
Their known spawning grounds in 2004 stretched from the Toltén River, north of Valdivia, at latitude 39° S to the Grande River near Punta Arena at 53° S. A landlocked, nonmigrating group also inhabits Puyehue Lake. These chinook, which probably descended from fish farm escapees, are so successful they now comprise 28% of the fish caught in that lake.
Trawlers in the Atlantic Ocean first hooked chinook in 2002. A population of spawning chinooks were subsequently discovered in the Caterina River, a tributary of Argentina's Santa Cruz River that drains into the Atlantic. No other anadramous fish has invaded such a vast range in South America.
The salmon's rate of river colonization in South America mirrors that of chinook released on New Zealand's South Island between 1901 to 1907. Basins within 200 kilometres of the two introduction points in Chile became populated by chinook within 15 years. The new runs were initiated by a small proportion of spawning salmon which strayed from their natal river.
Similarities between their native and the Patagonian landscapes have set the salmon up for survival in the southern hemisphere. Scientists expect chinook to continue colonizing rivers farther south of the fish's current range, in both Pacific and Atlantic drainages. Their eventual southern range will likely correspond in latitude to the salmon's presence in the northern hemisphere, and comprise short rivers like those where the ocean ranching stocks originated.
https://www.currentresults.com/Invasive-Species/Invasive-Water/chinook-709271.php
Their known spawning grounds in 2004 stretched from the Toltén River, north of Valdivia, at latitude 39° S to the Grande River near Punta Arena at 53° S. A landlocked, nonmigrating group also inhabits Puyehue Lake. These chinook, which probably descended from fish farm escapees, are so successful they now comprise 28% of the fish caught in that lake.
Trawlers in the Atlantic Ocean first hooked chinook in 2002. A population of spawning chinooks were subsequently discovered in the Caterina River, a tributary of Argentina's Santa Cruz River that drains into the Atlantic. No other anadramous fish has invaded such a vast range in South America.
The salmon's rate of river colonization in South America mirrors that of chinook released on New Zealand's South Island between 1901 to 1907. Basins within 200 kilometres of the two introduction points in Chile became populated by chinook within 15 years. The new runs were initiated by a small proportion of spawning salmon which strayed from their natal river.
Similarities between their native and the Patagonian landscapes have set the salmon up for survival in the southern hemisphere. Scientists expect chinook to continue colonizing rivers farther south of the fish's current range, in both Pacific and Atlantic drainages. Their eventual southern range will likely correspond in latitude to the salmon's presence in the northern hemisphere, and comprise short rivers like those where the ocean ranching stocks originated.
https://www.currentresults.com/Invasive-Species/Invasive-Water/chinook-709271.php
and currently the sea surface temps there are in the 13-17C range. see: https://www.seatemperature.org/south-america/
talk about an indefensible assumption.
Also thought those fish farmers told us that there are no impacts from FF activity - wonder where those Chinook came from then?
talk about an indefensible assumption.
Also thought those fish farmers told us that there are no impacts from FF activity - wonder where those Chinook came from then?
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Probably the same way the beavers and wolfs got down there they swam lol
There speedy little bastards just like those artic foxes
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Why , it’s just like here.
https://www.seatemperature.org/north-america/canada/vancouver.htm
So, there appears to be no problem with salmon surviving in southern waters and even expanding their territory.
As the average ocean temperature is 16c degrees they will not have any concerns in the future as the rate of increase is negligible.
Although North American salmon were released many times since 1924 into Chilean waters, investigators trace the origins of the naturalized fish mainly to a period of ocean ranching lasting from 1978 to 1989.
https://www.seatemperature.org/north-america/canada/vancouver.htm
So, there appears to be no problem with salmon surviving in southern waters and even expanding their territory.
As the average ocean temperature is 16c degrees they will not have any concerns in the future as the rate of increase is negligible.
Although North American salmon were released many times since 1924 into Chilean waters, investigators trace the origins of the naturalized fish mainly to a period of ocean ranching lasting from 1978 to 1989.
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