New to this... which rod?

ScottyW

New Member
Hey all,

First post here as I'm looking at getting into the sport. I apologize in advance as my lingo isn't exactly up to par for the fishing world.

I live in the lower mainland and am interested in fishing the summer/fall salmon in the Vedder as it's fairly close to me and seems like an incredible amount of fun. However, having never fly fished before, I'm having a tough time differentiating between single hand, spey, and switch rods, besides the obvious. More specifically:

- Which is the easiest to learn, but remains useful well into the future with respect to skill level?
- Which is the most suited to the size of the Vedder?
- Which style (nymphing, dry..) of flies is best suited to each rod type, and with that being said, which fly type works best (if not all?)
- Finally, what would your recommendation be on a first fly rod/reel setup for this situation?

Thanks in advance,

ScottyW
 
Your'e on the wrong forum for talk about Vedder flyfishing. Try another like Fishing with Rod or Flyfishing BC

Fwiw, I recommend a 12' 6" 2 hander, 6 or 7 weight. Lines and tips to match, good quality reel that will hold a skagit line, running line and lots of backing. Last tip, don't start till March ... warmer water, fewer people, way more fish.
 
I was actually being serious when I was asking the question Courtney(pasta). Why would someone want to start out fly fishing on the most heavily fished river in BC?
 
Hey all,

First post here as I'm looking at getting into the sport. I apologize in advance as my lingo isn't exactly up to par for the fishing world.

I live in the lower mainland and am interested in fishing the summer/fall salmon in the Vedder as it's fairly close to me and seems like an incredible amount of fun. However, having never fly fished before, I'm having a tough time differentiating between single hand, spey, and switch rods, besides the obvious. More specifically:

- Which is the easiest to learn, but remains useful well into the future with respect to skill level?
- Which is the most suited to the size of the Vedder?
- Which style (nymphing, dry..) of flies is best suited to each rod type, and with that being said, which fly type works best (if not all?)
- Finally, what would your recommendation be on a first fly rod/reel setup for this situation?

Thanks in advance,

ScottyW
Right on. Personally I fly fished way before I gear fished and for years and years before I ever picked up any gear. Was tying fly's in grade 6 at the age of 11 I got my first fly tying kit for Christmas. Hooked my first Steelhead on the Coquitlam river at the age of 12 on a streamer fly targeting the Dollies. Have fly fished all over BC for Steelhead on the fly and on gear. Fly fishing is my first passion but I now do all kinds of fishing ie lake, river, salt both on fly and gear now.

Saying that you will encounter more Steelies on gear but it is very common to get into numerous Steelies on the fly on the Vedder (and several other lower mainland rivers) if you know what your doing, pick correct fly's, water conditions, and types of runs, tailouts, fans, deeper shoots with weighted fly's, streamers, big and uglies, minnow patterns etc.. Later in the season after the majority of the fish have entered the system and as the water warms, etc it can be pretty good fly fishing the Vedder. you will hear most people say "stick to the lower sections" for fly fishing. Yes the water slows and widens and is more suited for simple swing/drift fishing fly's for Steelies but you can and should fly fish all areas of the Vedder for Steelies if you want to get good at fishing different water conditions, flow types, run types etc with fly's. Technology has come a long way with line types for getting fly's down in all water conditions for targeting salmon, steelies, trout etc.. A visit to the local tackle stores there will give you a lot of insight on all of that and they will have some good fly selections for the local rivers but mostly myself I stick to big and ugly weighted flys in purples, blacks, blues, orange and pinks with added flash, weighted eyes, barrel heads etc. Later in the season when the fry are around the Steelies will and do actively feed on them so at that time I use mostly fry patterns stripping them in with wounded twitch retrieve patterns that entice hits. When a steely hits a fry pattern there's no need to set the hook. They smash them hard and run immediately.

Personally I would suggest learning single handed first then if you like it and do well at it you can get into two handed. But that's personal preference. I like both and both can be used effectively on the Vedder. Early mornings are best for the Vedder with single handed rods as the fish like to lay tight in to shore in slower moving water which is easily reached with a single handed rod. If you want your fly to sink faster and fish deeper you can also cast quarter up stream, let your fly sink, then mend to keep your line taught to your fly. That is key to know when your fly gets picked up by a steelhead. On dead drifts it can be hard to detect a pick up by a fish as they can and do drop back and drift down with the same speed as the fly to pick it up. If you are swinging a tight line to the fly down and across a run then you will feel the fish pick it up or hit it much easier. It is very very important when you finish your swing with your line completely down river from you that you stop, let your fly sit with the current for a minute, then strip it in, hesitating between strip to try to entice a hit from a shallow laying fish. This is a very common spot that Steelhead will hit. Especially early morning in the shallows. If you don't want to be a "purist" in the fly fishing sense then you can also add scents to your fly's, use egg patterns etc.. Just watch the river's regs you are fishing cause bait bans can also include any artificial scents etc..
If you want to fish big wide sections of rivers and cover more ground faster than a two handed rod is very good at doing that. But if you want to fly fish lot's of smaller rivers and still lot's of sections of the Vedder then a single handed rod is very good at doing that too.

You will hear all kinds of new fly tech lingo pushing/suggesting different types of rods for nymphing etc, but if you just want to get started just get yourself an 8/9 weight rod and go for the salmon/steelhead and worry about the specific different types rods/gear later when you decide if you want to get more serious about all that other stuff. I've tossed every type of fly and fly line from all my fly rods both single, and double handed. There wasn't all that extra stuff out there when I learned to fly fish and I caught every type of fish in BC all on my first single handed fly rod changing my line and fly's as needed for the different species I was targeting, water I was fishing, etc.

You will find quite a few fly fishers targeting Steelies on the Vedder later in the season. And a lot of them are good guys that would be happy to show you what they are using and offer advice to new comers to the hobby. It's just important to give respect to the other fishermen on the pieces of water they are fishing. Most guys will start at the heads of runs and work their way down through the tailouts. Proper etiquette is to not drop in to fish below them before they have worked the run. But if they are spending all their time in a certain spot on the run then just ask them if they are planning to work down or if they mind if you drop in below them.

Some pics of Steelhead I caught on the fly on the Vedder River and another river. Didn't have cell phone's with cameras back when I fly fished more than gear fished lol so not as many pics were taken of fly caught steelies unfortunately. Notice the water isn't all "typical" fly water. I fly fish every kind of runs/water conditions with fly's. Of all the water and time of year conditions I love though for fly fishing it would be for clear water canyon summer run steelhead. There's nothing quite like watching a big chrome summer run Steely rip across a pool to smash a drifting or swinging fly. Especially when you watch them come up from 15 feet behind a boulder to smash a dry fly :) The crystal clear water pool canyon pic is a run of fish I brood stocked and started the run on my own by pontooning and brood tubing the fish that were returning after being brooded from a different river to start this new run of fish. This was one of the first years of hatchery clipped summers returning to that river in that picture. It wasn't fly caught but to give you an idea of all water types you can fly fish; that very same pool I also fly fish for the Summer runs and you can see the Steelhead laying in the pools and you can watch them follow, and take fly's (as long as they aren't spooked). Quite an exhilarating way of catching fish I think.

PaulSteelhead1.jpg

PaulSteelhead5.jpg
FlyCaughtSteely2.jpg
PaulFlyCaughtSteely.jpg

SummerRunSteelhead1.jpg
 
Nice Job Chasin Dreams

I would add whatever style of fly rod single, switch or double spend the the money to match up your line to your rod and buy quality line, from your local fly shop. It will save you a lot of grief and money trying to figure it out yourself.
If your on a budget buy a less expensive reel to start out.

The school of YouTube has some excellent videos on on single and double hand casting techniques, as well watch how other fly Fisher cast and present their fly

Good luck enjoy the sport.
 
Great post Chasin Dreams!

Stop in at Sea Run in Coquitlum or Micheal & Young in Surrey and tell them what you want to do and they will help set you up with something in your budget for what you want to do. Ask about taking a casting lesson, its worth the few $$ investment to get some instruction from the pros to start off on the right foot.

Picking up flyfishing for salmon and steelhead in rivers can be very challenging but also very rewarding. Don't get discouraged if you don't start catching fish right away. Just keep with it and success will come! Be friendly on the river and eventually you will meet some sociable fellow fly fisherman who would be happy to help you out with some tips.
 
Hey Chasin Dreams.....Roger that on Burban's comment...good post! Good info to share with a guy just getting into the sport. I agree....a single hand rod for an 8/9 is the most versatile...in my opinion, in order of importance as far as where to put your $$$ when picking up the steelhead / salmon on a fly habit...get the best lines and pay what you have to to get them....the rod and reel are secondary...get any reel as long as it's rim controlled and will hold your line + 100 yds of backing...and the rod.....even a $50 rod would work just fine as long as it has a bit of length (minimum 9 ft) and enough backbone to pick your new fancy line out of the water and shoot it back out....

Anyone who wants to learn to cast a fly should do a YouTube search for Jim Green, secrets of fly casting. One of the best presentations on how to get maximum leverage and casting distance with minimal effort

It seems we traced a similar trajectory with steelhead gear...I had more then two decades of fly fishing experience with steelhead before I ever caught one on gear. I got spoiled up on the Skeena in the 70's and 80's. Arrived in August, slept in the back of a Toyota with the girlfriend and fished rivers that back in those days, had way more fish then people. Once the snow started falling, we'd bail out of Region 6 for Spences Bridge. During all those years I fished a beat up Fenwick rod and a crappy Cortland reel but....I always had the best lines you could buy at the time....between my girlfriend and I we caught dizzy amounts of fish, some very big, both of us using goofy garage sale equipment that would cause your average modern day cool fly dude to shake his head in disbelief....

But again, crappy rod and reels notwithstanding, I always had the best lines you could buy at the time,every length of sinktip (10 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft) and various sinking speed lines that Cortland and Scienfic Anglers made...to this day I could fill multiple shoeboxes with all the lines I had and used on a regular basis to match river heights, river widths and water speeds


I learned a lot about steelhead behavior in those days....the most obvious lesson: when they're around and haven't been molested they are really easy to catch‎....the easiest $20 I ever made was betting a guy at Trout Creek that I could catch a steelhead dragging a cigarette butt across the surface of the water tied to a hook.. Of course my girlfriend and I had already had 3 double headers since breakfast so knowing there were those kind of numbers around was all I needed to know to risk making that bet


It's a bit tougher getting them on a fly these days because since the onset of the internet with instant point and click information available to the hordes‎, instead of just you and 10 aggressive fish waiting for your fly, it might be you in the hole with 10 of your best buddies all angling for the same fish....


But in my experience, all it takes is just that one fish on the end of your line to make not only your day but sometimes, your whole season

What's the most productive fly you ask? The one with the sharp point and the good knot that's swimming in the river attached to your reel, not the one sitting in your fly box

Yes, the fancy new intruders and leech patterns with bright exotic materials catch fish but don't ever turn your back on the tried and true (and completely drab) Doc Spratley and Muddler Minnow and McCloud Ugly type patterns...they catch both summer and winter fish!

Once you win the Lotto and feel like stepping up for a top'shelf rod, in my opinion one of the best fly rod investments you can make is a 10 1/2 foot 8 weight' Sage One rod. The diminutive weight of the rod masks unparalleled power to shoot big flies and various lines long distances with minimal effort....sometimes that is what it take to get a fish, and with a rod of that caliber, you can pound out huge casts all day without effort.

Good luck in your new endeavor!
 
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Right on Sharphooks. Ya the whole Skeena basin is a world wonder for chasin Steelhead. I started fishing up there in the early 90's. Took my father in laws old 1980 home made camper van up there which I bought off of him right before the first trip. Went up there for years every steelhead season with buddies and eventually took my wife up there on a trip with a friend of mine too before our kids were born. Lot's of amazing adventures on so many rivers up there. Some of the more well known ones like the Bulkley, Maurice, Kispiox, Babine, Copper, Lake Else, Kitsum Kalum etc and quite a few other smaller ones that aren't well known at all. Some of them we would 4x4 up as far as we could get up logging roads then hike in to access some of the not so known steelhead ones. We brought an inflatable zodiac and drifted the rivers. Never hiring any guides. Just going and adventuring in the unknown areas to us. We hired local natives to drive us up higher in the rivers and parked our vehicle down below. Lot's of great times and almost lost one of my best friends on one trip when he got tossed in the river off the zodiac in some white water. No wading belt on and wearing waders. Filled right up with water in a second and started going under but got pinned up against a huge boulder by the rapids before going under. The zodiac swung around and pinned up against him and the boulder. It took every ounce of strength of my other friend and i to get him back in the boat. That was on the "Potato Patch" run on the Kispiox rapids section. Also had a few close calls with black bears and grizzlies. Have old pictures of some of them and an old 8mm video of one of our trips too still. Miss those days of brisk fall days with buddies hunting for steelhead all over the back country. And some monster steelies up there too. Those and Thompson fish are amazing fighters. Still plan on getting up to the Dean one year for a Steely fly fishing trip. Yup I agree too that some old school fly's work well too and it's a great feeling seeing a Fall Steely wake up to and chase a dry dear hair fly like a humpy, mudler, skaters, bee's etc. along with buggy nymphs etc. Personally it's great to try to get a Steely to grab a dry for sure, but if it doesn't happen what I do is work the run with different weight lines, fly's and fly types. If they are there and not spooked they will smash something you chuck/swing in front of them. Depending on water conditions though sometimes they may be belly down tight against the bottom with they heads tucked behind big boulders so at times a big ugly intrusive fly fished hard and deep is what's needed to get down right in front of them. Saying that I've had Summer Runs come up and grab my floats off the surface of the water while drift fishing gear for them while ignoring the rig down in the water. So they can be very protective, curious and predatory at times.

ScottyW I would also suggest to add some very strong trailer hitch flys in pinks, blues, purples with weighted fore bodies and heads to your steelhead/salmon fly collections. Also great for Dollies and Bull Trout etc. Creates a great undulating action in the water. I've caught more steelhead on some of those flys than most others. Some can be made like a tube fly, wire add on hitch fly, etc.. They should have some in the stores. And I've still got another fly, one that I keep on a cork board in my tackle room from a trip up to the Skeena, that caught me a crazy amount of Steelhead on one trip. I'll post a pic of it later. Simple black, blue maribou fly with flashabou that slayed the steelies on that last trip up there for me.
Another river you should definitely check out for fly fishing steelhead and good size Dollies and Bullies is the Squamish river. You can encounter all species in there in the same runs on the same days. Some nice Cutties in there too. And you can hunt for steelies in that river late into the season compared to other lower mainland rivers. It's a beautiful river with all kinds of different runs, chutes, pools, tailouts etc. It can get a glacier green grey color to it so bring very bright fly's with lot's of flash and bring different weighted lines for the different water conditions there. You'll see what I mean when you check it out.
 
Hey Chasin Dreams.....Roger that on Burban's comment...good post! Good info to share with a guy just getting into the sport. I agree....a single hand rod for an 8/9 is the most versatile...in my opinion, in order of importance as far as where to put your $$$ when picking up the steelhead / salmon on a fly habit...get the best lines and pay what you have to to get them....the rod and reel are secondary...get any reel as long as it's rim controlled and will hold your line + 100 yds of backing...and the rod.....even a $50 rod would work just fine as long as it has a bit of length (minimum 9 ft) and enough backbone to pick your new fancy line out of the water and shoot it back out....

Anyone who wants to learn to cast a fly should do a YouTube search for Jim Green, secrets of fly casting. One of the best presentations on how to get maximum leverage and casting distance with minimal effort

It seems we traced a similar trajectory with steelhead gear...I had more then two decades of fly fishing experience with steelhead before I ever caught one on gear. I got spoiled up on the Skeena in the 70's and 80's. Arrived in August, slept in the back of a Toyota with the girlfriend and fished rivers that back in those days, had way more fish then people. Once the snow started falling, we'd bail out of Region 6 for Spences Bridge. During all those years I fished a beat up Fenwick rod and a crappy Cortland reel but....I always had the best lines you could buy at the time....between my girlfriend and I we caught dizzy amounts of fish, some very big, both of us using goofy garage sale equipment that would cause your average modern day cool fly dude to shake his head in disbelief....

But again, crappy rod and reels notwithstanding, I always had the best lines you could buy at the time,every length of sinktip (10 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft) and various sinking speed lines that Cortland and Scienfic Anglers made...to this day I could fill multiple shoeboxes with all the lines I had and used on a regular basis to match river heights, river widths and water speeds


I learned a lot about steelhead behavior in those days....the most obvious lesson: when they're around and haven't been molested they are really easy to catch‎....the easiest $20 I ever made was betting a guy at Trout Creek that I could catch a steelhead dragging a cigarette butt across the surface of the water tied to a hook.. Of course my girlfriend and I had already had 3 double headers since breakfast so knowing there were those kind of numbers around was all I needed to know to risk making that bet


It's a bit tougher getting them on a fly these days because since the onset of the internet with instant point and click information available to the hordes‎, instead of just you and 10 aggressive fish waiting for your fly, it might be you in the hole with 10 of your best buddies all angling for the same fish....


But in my experience, all it takes is just that one fish on the end of your line to make not only your day but sometimes, your whole season

What's the most productive fly you ask? The one with the sharp point and the good knot that's swimming in the river attached to your reel, not the one sitting in your fly box

Yes, the fancy new intruders and leech patterns with bright exotic materials catch fish but don't ever turn your back on the tried and true (and completely drab) Doc Spratley and Muddler Minnow and McCloud Ugly type patterns...they catch both summer and winter fish!

Once you win the Lotto and feel like stepping up for a top'shelf rod, in my opinion one of the best fly rod investments you can make is a 10 1/2 foot 8 weight' Sage One rod. The diminutive weight of the rod masks unparalleled power to shoot big flies and various lines long distances with minimal effort....sometimes that is what it take to get a fish, and with a rod of that caliber, you can pound out huge casts all day without effort.

Good luck in your new endeavor!

Thx for the Jim Green reminder just watched it again

Cheers
 
Glad you took the time to watch that video, big rock. He was quite a guy--very clear explanation of how to handle a fly rod.

Jim Green was the head designer for Fenwick and once he got close to retirement, he started fiddling with new models. He made most of the fishing rods I use. He gave me a 20 footer (5 piece) , several 16 footers (3 piece and 4 piece) and several 14 footers. He made them all at the Sage facility on Bainbridge Island back when Fenwick owned the plant---he was rolling up double-handed rods on his mandrels back before most guys even Had heard of double-sanders.

And just for the record, although both Jim and his wife were world-record fly-casters, they NEVER EVER "Spey casted". It was an over-head cast that employed shooting coils of line for the 120 foot+ casts they regularly made. I learned that technique when visiting Jim Green's house and his casting pond in Quilcene, Washington. To this day, I over-head cast using Jim Green's technique and although I recognize a Spey cast can come in handy, I never use that technique unless I absolutely have to (when there's minimal casting room behind me).

What has that technique bought me? Zero arthritis issues, despite 50 years of aggressive fly casting (unlike some of the other guys I know who beat up their shoulder joints and elbows Spey casting all day long, thinking that's the only way to get a fly out into the river....).

Jim Green deserves way more recognition then he gets---he was way ahead of his time as both a fly caster and rod builder. And fishing his 20 foot rod? Crazy. I remember once almost shooting a fly across the Skeena to the opposite bank with that rod.
 
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