Lots of questions about buying a new welded aluminum boat?

[Kinetic]

Realistically I'm probably 3-5 years away from buying a new welded aluminum boat but I've started researching makes/models.
So that leads to my 1st question. I want a new soft top 16-18ft outboard model. Is there a site that reviews/compares all the manufacturers?
I see there's all different side and bottom thicknesses, is thicker always better (lol).
Is there much negotiation room on the price. I see packages for 16ft Hewescraft with motor/trailer for 40k. Would you be able to get several thousand off that price?
And finally, is there really any difference in quality between Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda outboards?
Thanks

 

[Drewski Canuck]

Kinetic,

I have a better idea. Lets just ask about the Meaning of Life.

But to answer your questions, you are going to get killed on exchange rates on US build boats, their economy is strong so no dumping at a discount into Canada, and as for the Japaense build 4 strokes, they are all good.

As for bottom thickness, I too have been looking for the last few years. You could get a riveted hull with as much as .120, but impact strength on hitting a dead head at 50 km / hr is why you want a heavy welded aluminum.

My brother and I were coming back from Burdwood cove into Nootka, when a 19 foot lund travelling beside us hit a deadhead at 67 km / hr according to him. My brother's boat is a Campion 215 Fishing Machine (DeFishNSee). We would have had a 2 foot hole and be sunk from that hit. The Lund did break open on the hit, with about 10 inches of rivets popping, he leaked REALLY BAD, but was able to stuff a life jacket in and get back to Tuta Marina were we pulled the boat, bashed out the dent, filled the split seam with evergreen boat patch, and he kept on fishing.

That is why you want a welded aluminum hull, and as heavy as you can afford.

Drewski

 

[JAC]

There is always some wiggle room on the price. Ideally you want .190 for the bottom and .125 or better .190 for the sides. Call inlet marine and ask for Chris. Look at the silver streak 18 race rocks. All the new motors have there pros and cons it's a ford Chevy kind of a deal. Don't under power your boat it will save you money up front but you will wish for more power down the road and it will cost you way more to upgrade.

 

[Sculpin]

If your 3-5 years away you have lots of time to research. Which is good. If you haven't already checked out the Aluminum Alloy Boat forum, I highly suggest it. It is full of builders and some very experienced people that have been involved with welded aluminum boats for decades. Like any forum there is some junk to wade through but the majority of the threads have some great information in them.

http://www.aluminumalloyboats.com

In the size range you are looking at I would say Silverstreak is right up there near the top for the soft top runabout models.
The cookie cutter factory boats from the states and Canada can be good but some of them cut corners on things that can lead to problems down the road.

Hull thickness depends on the design and fuel economy intended for that design. Obviously the lighter the boat the better the fuel economy. You do sacrifice ride quality and strength by going too light. My gal is .250 bottom and .250 sides and built like a tank. She probably weighs close to some glass boats in her size range. I give up fuel economy for a rock solid ride. No shuttering or flexing what so ever.

Prices have increased significantly over the last 4 years or so on welded aluminum boats. You just have to keep your eye out for discounted deals, year old stock, or good quality used ones that come on the market and the seller needs it gone fast. Like buying a car or truck, you have to go to a few dealers or sellers and put in some offers.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Sculpin

 

[Kinetic]

Thanks Sculpin for passing along the forum info, I'll definitely check it out!

 

[wolf]

My brother's boat is a Campion 215 Fishing Machine (DeFishNSee). We would have had a 2 foot hole and be sunk from that hit.

maybe because it was a campion !!! but in 30 years of boating i hit a dead head once felt it thru my feet from the drivers side as it hit on the port side panicked hauled the boat out NOTHING!!!! fiberglass is lot tougher than you think cause it flexes.

Only thing i will say if you get alum spend the money on good suspension seats as they POUND .... enough said.....

 

[jack fish]

Welded boats have lots off advantages and some dissadvanges. Hull thickness too me thicker seems better but when I did the research before I bought. I talked too people in the boat Business and the plate thickness isn't the end of the story. The durability of the boat has as much too do with the structure behind the plate skin as well as the thickness of the plate. I ended up with a .190 bottom. I looked at a lot of boats and for my buck hewescraft offered the most boat for the dollar. A hewescraft has concessions to cost most of the bolt on stuff is lower end and the decks are plywood but when I bought in 2012 a low production Vic island built boat was a lot more money and a wait too have it built. I've used the hewes on Great slave lake in a short steep chop that is famous for breaking both glass and alloy boats and have had no issues with the structure of the hull. Their are a lot of hewes on this lake and the local welder says the only cracks he has fixed on hewes crafts have Been in add ons and in hard tops above the door. I've seen more expensive well knowen boats in his yard with major cracks in the transom and bracket area. If your thinking hewes they have a good owners forum on the net.

 

[jack fish]

Don't want too sound too much like a hewes sales man just a so far happy ower. 2 other things I don't like about the hewes is they have a lot of spray foam in them that can get wet. And they are putting a lot of cosmetic paint on the current boats. The paint is nice looking and ok for fresh water. But I wouldn't want a painted boat for salt water use seems too cause more trouble then it's worth in all brands of alloy boats.

 

[Bows Up]

They don't weld planes, they rivet them. Had to say it as a Lund owner, lol. I have an 18', '94 hull and no leaks, no cracks.

Jaysus, 67kph. At 35 kph crap comes up fast enough in Johnstone Strait. I can run faster but at 35 I should have time to react.

Would a welded boat have cracked at that speed ? All kidding aside, welded are super but do take a boo at riveted.

 

[ericl]

Friend was a Boeing Structural engineer (Think aluminum) Said he would never use a welded AL boat on the Saltwater - it was the welds you could't see that worried him.

Am am with Wolf on this one........

 

[JAC]

Steel ships are welded they seem to hold up ?

 

[noluck]

when the aluminum is too thin to weld they use rivets, when thick enough aluminum is used it is welded. both boats will get you out to fish. bottom line is to buy what you are comfortable with, and what your budget will support. just a thought, i have never seen a rivited river boat stand up to rocks or deadheads

 

[ryanb]

In addition to my ocean boat I have a 14.5' 200hp sportjet powered centre console. I have literally hit hundreds of rocks running shallow rivers, usually at speeds of 30kts+. No cracked welds so far, I'll take welded over riveted thank you.

 

[Sculpin]

Steel ships are welded they seem to hold up ?

Yup. I get a kick out of some of the folks that don't look at the big picture. The majority of the boats/ships on the water around the world are welded steel or aluminum.

The airplane comparison is like apples to oranges. Haven't seen too many airplanes designed to go through water lol.

 

[Bows Up]

Had to get the airplane line in as it is a classic.

As noluck put it, buy what you are comfortable with and what your budget will support.

 

[halimark]

From a current glass guy, my first 2 were small aluminums, #1 riveted 14ft lund, then a 15ft welded. My mind is very clear what was best. I would recommend looking very closely at your needs. Plan on buying the closest boat that exceeds that, sucks getting 2 ft ittis every couple years? Bigger than expected is normal, don't hear many people buying smaller. Also have not heard anyone with the proper welded boats making comments concerning their boats other than positive. Look closely at the members boats thread, its very obvious the boats meant for what we abuse them with. I say no more, as one day 2 ft ittis will get me, next and last one will be welded, and I listen to those on here that know. With 3-5 years of notes, research and reading your purchase should be perfect for your needs.

HM

 

[SpringVelocity]

Friend was a Boeing Structural engineer (Think aluminum) Said he would never use a welded AL boat on the Saltwater - it was the welds you could't see that worried him. I like both myself.


Am am with Wolf on this one........

that's bs and I am in engineering. Aircraft is totally different. Your not using same grades and stresses are very different. Not even close to same comparison. I worked with aircraft and it's not even close to same process to putting boat together. I like both fiberglass and aluminum. The only thing I don't like about aluminum is the pricing is insane vs fiberglass.

 

[ericl]

OK all you engineering experts.......... The skin on planes is riveted. How about the internal beams/struts? Ever heard on the Edmund Fitzgerald? It broke in two on a wave.
The guy I referenced owned a welded AL River boat - different types of stresses on a river than getting serious air time out in the saltwater. Are they welds you can't see the same pretty welds you can see?

 

[Sculpin]

This is getting silly. I'm out.

Good luck with your future boat purchase Kinetic . Do your homework and it will all be good .

 

[Whole in the Water]

Owed a 20 ft. Silver Streak for 12 years, never go back to glass as it takes more maintenance, less durable and less longevity. Glass looks prettier than AL is that is important to you, but you need to maintain it to make it look good. There is a reason why commercial and industrial businesses use AL boats as they are low maintenance and durable.

This is what I would look fort in a new AL boat:

• sharp hull entry to reduce pounding
• no paint, just flakes off over time and lots of work and $$$ to repaint
• suspension seats for driver at the least - as AL boats do pound
• avoid spray foam flotation as it does degrade in water
• the thicker the plate the stronger the better
• investigate (read reviews, talk to owners, etc.) of the hull and frame design, the more framing and stiffer the frame/hull the better. Ask about the quality of the ride in the slop and chop
• think of all the options you want as you can now, if you add later you need to cut/drill holes or weld on later