Licensing Guides...your thoughts?

[gamechanger]

Hi guys, this topic sort of spawned out of some posts that we had on halibut allocation, where Searun mentioned he supported a guide license, partnered with the C license, I said that they could solve a lot of issues potentially, but may be controversial. DHA added to it asking what direction DFO is headed with this, and lets start a new thread, so we did and here's my last post...

DHA, from what I know the Department doesn't have a direction, or if it does the minions like myself that work on the island don't know about it yet. If people think that discussing this at a meeting/meetings with the guides associations would be better than doing it here on the forum lets do that. We could talk about this through your local SFAC (Sport Fishing Advisory Committee) meetings too, which will be coming up in the fall. There's 10 committees on the South Coast that I will be meeting with Sept-Nov. I think its a conversation worth having.

I always want to hear what you guys in the industry think especially with topics like this because people in DFO think about them, and when I talk with other people in the department, who don't have the background in recreational fisheries that I do, it keeps things in perspective (for everybody).

gc

 

[salmonkiller01]

I am not a guide but wouldn't the licensing guides become a new tax and not accomplishing the goal of allocation of harvest. Guides are already licensed thru transport canada, require svop and meda3, buisiness license.... Attaching a C liscense would just make the sellers of the license alot more money. Just my thought.

 

[trophywife]

Yup... Already liscensed... But if your talkin bout a mandatory registration to a members representation and the annual fee went directly to the benefits of being a part of it.. I am in.

 

[gamechanger]

Would there be interest in discussing this more at your local SFAC meetings this year? If so let me know and I can do some work on this and see what you guys have to say at the meetings in the fall?

 

[GLG]

I am not a guide but wouldn't the licensing guides become a new tax and not accomplishing the goal of allocation of harvest. Guides are already licensed thru transport canada, require svop and meda3, buisiness license.... Attaching a C liscense would just make the sellers of the license alot more money. Just my thought.

You guy's what to go down this road?
Think long and hard about that one.

If you think that a license will keep fly by night operators out, you don't understand the problem.
There are rules and laws that keep professional guides on the up and up.
Fly by nights don't follow those rules and laws now, what will change with a new tax (license)?
You will have to pass the new tax to your clients like all business do.
People (government) that do the paperwork will need money to do the work.
They cost big dough so the money will get sucked from your pocket into theirs.

Perhaps I should just stay out of this because I'm not a guide but I do use a guide every other year.
GLG

 

[profisher]

Have always supported the idea of a 2 level license to be either an owner operator or a hired operator. Not sure why you don't think that a big number painted on the side of your boat wouldn't help keep the fly by nighters out of the business. How many fly by nighters infiltrate the commercial fishery? Additionally the more one has invested in a business the more motivation for self policing will occur within that industry. Licensing will come one day regardless as the resource is not endless and at some point to many operators will require some method of control to protect fish and the overall experience of visitors to an area.

 

[wolf]

First I would like to see them police what they "SAY" they are going to do there is so many balck market "companies" out there that blatantly advertise on the web and brochures with out decals or TOC approval almost in the face of them and yet nothing gets done!!!!!! SO why bother with yet another LICENCE i know what your all saying but but its a mute point when they dont even enforce whats been in place already.........ITS A FRICKEN JOKE anyways now....

All it will take is to bust just 1 person doing illegal trips and you will see these so called charter guy fold like a cheap tent!!!!

 

[chris73]

There is waaayyy too much bureaucracy already. In fact so much that no one seem to be able to control and even understand it anymore. Let's NOT add more to it!

 

[Gunsmith]

The guides should implement a licensing system through an association that they form as a group that consists of guides themselves. The Government should give this association control of the requirements and standards they set up. The monies should not go to a govt agency but to the association to cover operating and enforcement expenses. Law enforcement should come from a combination of all agencies involved.
This is just an idea and is open to critics.

 

[Bod]

We don't need any more licensing. Licensing in any other trade hasn't stopped fly by night guys.
If you want license me, go ahead. Charge me $5000.00 bucks a year. Just allow me to go out and Catch Halibut for eleven months of the year and maybe I can make up some of the 10 grand DFO cost me this fall. Hell, I can't even book trips for the spring because I don't know when it will open.
Another round of Hali talks? Really! We all know that all DFO has to do is make the slipper skippers fish it or lose. You would see a glut of reasonably priced quota on the market right quick. Commercial guys that want too could buy it up and DFO can buy a bunch for the rec sector. Just take the money out of general revenue where my license and tax dollars went and spend it where it belongs.

 

[wolf]

EXACTLLY if they cant even do this one simple thing how is it going to change us buying another beuracatical "lic fee" if they want give it to us FREE I think we have paid enough then if someone doesnt comply with it!!!!!!! HAMMER the F#*Ken SOB put a lock on the boat and until he has done all the courses and updates of fire extigishers etc and the DECALS on his boat then allow him to operate as he should WHEN they follow the rules


WOLF

 

[Tailspin]

I agree, waste of time.

On a good note DFO is in the process of doing something good! They are now in process of canceling the MNSF for the charter guys. Confirmation will be out soon. Many of us who have been TC complinat and had a C number for more than five years got dinged a annual fee of 224 bucks. With the efforts of Ownen Bird and many emails from us, DFO agrees it jeprodizes the TC marine safety program, with many guides in the process of removing C numbers from ship registry and dropping the decal program altogether to avoid the slash.

This was a big battle, could not imagine what a license would intail! Look at the charter boats in AK. A bloody mess was the primary result of a guide licence.

With the current lack of enforcement and another recession looming it would be ugly and force many further underground.

 

[Islandgirl]

Maybe I should not comment because I am not a guide.. but here is my 2 cents.
Liscensing is just another form of TAX, which will add another layer of government bureaucracy, and more of my tax $$ wasted on something useless, that would accomplish nothing.

DFO needs to address the gifting of quota to a person that lasts forever.
Fish it or loose it.
No ownership of fish in the ocean until they are caught.

 

[GLG]

We all know how the gun register went and what did that accomplish?
Oh the program will only cost the tax payers 2 million.
Fast forward to now and we spent 2 billion for the software and 4 million a year to administer.
Jobs are all in some little town on the east coast run by ex-cod fisherman
Wolf and others are right. Enforce the laws we have and there would be know need for anything else.
GLG

 

[BearCove]

I agree with Wolf too! If DFO, TC, RCMP whoever should be in charge of enforcement went out and enforced there would be plenty of money coming in from fines, plus the legit guys would have that much more business and all of this would not be an issue. Adding another license to guides will not solve anything, the legit guys are already legit and will continue to be. We need to start nailing the guys that are below board,not only are they running illegal businesses it's also about safety.

 

[sammyslabber]

Licences don't always make a great guide...lots of ppl just don't have any social/fishing/boating skills...nothing against you long time guides who have put your time in...classroom time doesn't always make a good guide...SS

 

[searun]

I don't have any issues with a guide license - this system is already in place in freshwater and works OK, establishes minimum standards of operation and some form of registration and potential to enforce.

As for illegal guiding, I think the problem will end as soon as the Insurance Industry starts requiring all the TC certification to be complete including "C" numbers. I have been working with one of the Insurance Brokers to see what the Guide Association members could get for a discount. Interestingly, the response back this week has been:

"If you have members without their SVOP, 1st. aid, radio & MED I doubt if a P & I liability policy would respond to an accident where property damage or bodily injury occurred."

In simple lingo....we will not insure any guides unless they can verify the are fully compliant to T.C. regulations. So it looks like with the TC regulations coming into full effect in 2012, the Insurance Industry is stepping up the requirements before they will sell a commercial guide liability policy. This will weed out the guys who are not in compliance, or preferably will provide the motivation for us to get all our ducks in a row.

Now the issue for consumers will be whether or not their guide has insurance and we can stop bitching about the utter lack of T.C. enforcement.

 

[sammyslabber]

Enforcement my butt...like most of yee tax $$ lic. fees etc. goes to the coffers of General Revenue...SS

 

[Last Chance]

It would almost be better to go back to all cash, slap a BC number on the boat, and run under the radar it seems..

 

[sammyslabber]

Yep,read the paper watch the news seems like the worlds going to hell in a hand cart...