Interesting article
- Thread starter lazylump
- Start date
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Yeah if you like reading ********. An article from a person that is actively engaged with the government to close chinook fisheries down. Another NGO leaf licker.
I am suprised it wasn't 3 pages of arguing about hook mortality.
I am suprised it wasn't 3 pages of arguing about hook mortality.
lazylump
Active Member
First off, what an a- hole response.
I didn’t see anything advocating for a shut down of the fishery in that article. It was mostly just recollections from someone who grew up around the fishery.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Not really. The author is at the table right now actively trying to get our fishery closed with the MCC Caucus.
Maybe you should do research on article and its author. It's just NGO garbage.
More to this story then meets the eye.
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SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Sure Dave.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Obvsuouly Greg Taylor is stricken with guilt with all the damage he has caused to the resource. Even his selective seine sockeye fishery in Kamloops lake over harvested late run sockeye by the thousands last year.
Lots of people on this site lately feeling guilty for the damage they have caused to salmon stock. Guess if you took hundreds over your life time your feeling bad. If that’s the case maybe you should stop fishing.
When I’m out on the water I fish guilt free.
Lots of people on this site lately feeling guilty for the damage they have caused to salmon stock. Guess if you took hundreds over your life time your feeling bad. If that’s the case maybe you should stop fishing.
When I’m out on the water I fish guilt free.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Yep lots of guilt. A great strategy though to increase in river seine fisheries as we are in the way of that. Pulling heart strings like this article appeals to the audience that have no idea. I wonder how some of these people sleep at night honestly.
searun
Well-Known Member
Yes, I would be careful reading this article...having sat across the table on a few occasions hearing the "the only solution is to close the recreational fishery" mantra coming from the author you too would form an entirely different opinion. These folks are actively working to advocate closing your public fishery - you are on the endangered species list and about to be SARA listed...and you don't know it. These specific ENGO's are out to kill the public fishery...they are not your friends.
lazylump
Active Member
Thanks
Well I don’t know the guy, but a lot of what he says has been said to me before by old timers. Namely that there used to be tons of salmon everywhere, lots of herring etc and now thanks to over fishing and habitat destruction etc. there aren’t many fish left. I don’t see anywhere in the article where he advocates closing the fishery. Myself,I don’t mind seeing our limit dropped to one per day in area 17. I think a lot more than that needs to be done, but it’s not the end of the world either. Hopefully we don’t see a complete closure.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Do you mind everyone from south island and vancouver moving to fish in area 17? because even under option B area 17 looks like the best closest place to fish.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
under option B will be coming over till august 23...
That reminds me of a climate scientists article around the issue of water usage and how to conserve and save. He used the city of Palm Springs California as an example and by extension the growing belt of central California. As California goes through a 15-20 year drought the logic of wtf would build a city in the middle of the desert. Warm sunny weather of course. But now here’s the problem, the entire state is trying to route fresh water from areas that have an abundance (mountains) to areas that have none. This scientist advocates letting places like Palm Springs figure it out on their own but don’t send them a drop. His theory......by diverting fresh water from a green area to a desert area, eventually you create 2 deserts. One will simply exhaust the other leaving both unsustainable. If all the anglers from Vancouver and Victoria are forced to go to the nearest available area to catch fish, eventually you create a second desert. I suggest they fix it while leaving it open to some extent. Creating a migration of disenfranchised anglers west and North isn’t fixing anything, it’s creating another problem. Besides the areas they’re forced to go to are themselves facing shortages of salmon. It’s a pickle for sure. But don’t punish anglers for decades of incompetence by our government. I say soend more and do more, they’ve managed us into another coastal fish collapse, in my lifetime. Can we at least slow these events to every half century rather than by the decade
searun
Well-Known Member
100% agree - I would call that effect..."unanticipated consequences." Fisheries Managers are often tempted to put in management measures, but those need to be understood in terms of how they move effort around. The MPA process is another prime example. We can declare all this real estate as MPA closures...sounds great until you start thinking about what that does to commercial and recreational effort - by concentrating effort into small areas we increase localized exploitation which results in those "unanticipated consequences." However, they aren't so unanticipated...they are simply the result of short sighted thinking.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Someone said fishing keeps getting busier and busier.
I said it’s just less people fishing in even less amount of space.
The MPA draft that was sent out very scary...wonder what they have in store for the south coast.
I bet they turn the hornby island area into one big mpa, stops the herring fishery, gives SRKW more area, protects the seals and sea lions ect... I bet it happens
I said it’s just less people fishing in even less amount of space.
The MPA draft that was sent out very scary...wonder what they have in store for the south coast.
I bet they turn the hornby island area into one big mpa, stops the herring fishery, gives SRKW more area, protects the seals and sea lions ect... I bet it happens
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But this implies that the rec fishery is the problem to recovery of the salmon stocks, but it is not. Angling effort migration north or west will mean nothing in terms of recovery or further decline of stocks. It may make the local fishery uncomfy because too busy but please don't tell me that this would have a measurable effect on stocks. If you believe that then go and join the NGOs.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Well right now effort is spread out. They have basically drawn a line from Sooke to Vancouver and said everything south west of that line is hatch only.
Will effort shift north east to fisheries that can’t handle more pressure. Maybe, maybe not. Is there some niche fisheries in areas that can handle more pressure maybe, maybe not.
More then just salmon to think about as well, how will the ground fish stocks fair in the open areas?
Will see I guess
Will effort shift north east to fisheries that can’t handle more pressure. Maybe, maybe not. Is there some niche fisheries in areas that can handle more pressure maybe, maybe not.
More then just salmon to think about as well, how will the ground fish stocks fair in the open areas?
Will see I guess
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Great read. Another very interesting article with comments from our author from last summer. Is it whale crisis, fish crisis...or something else?
Terminal Fisheries
Known-stock terminal fisheries, practiced by Indigenous nations for thousands of years, could help solve salmon decline
Anna Kemp
July 20, 2018
Until approximately 120 years ago, the majority of BC salmon fisheries were terminal fisheries, practiced by First Nations. Terminal fisheries manage and harvest salmon in or near their natal streams, as they return to spawn. The development of industrial fisheries on the coast restricted and even outlawed many of these Indigenous terminal fisheries, fundamentally changing how salmon were managed in BC.
BC’s wild salmon now face a complex array of pressures, from habitat loss and degradation, to fish farm diseases, to climate change. Harvesting places additional pressure on already stressed populations. Many rivers see lower salmon returns every year, and our current fisheries management system has led to many populations being listed as threatened or endangered. Many argue we need to return to fisheries management strategies practiced successfully by First Nations for literally thousands of years. Shifting more of our commercial fisheries to known-stock terminal fisheries will help us rebuild endangered salmon populations, maintain the ecological health of our watersheds, and support economic development in First Nations fishing communities.
“Clearly, the management system that was in place prior to colonization was much more successful than the one we have now. Pre-contact, we saw the persistence of salmon populations and vibrant fishing economies through thousands of years, and now, post-contact, we have many populations in the critical red zone.”
Under current fisheries management practices, the majority of our commercial fisheries are marine mixed-stock. Greg Taylor, a fisheries management advisor who has worked in the BC seafood industry for over 30 years, explains the key challenge with marine mixed-stock fisheries:
“In the Fraser River there are 44 genetically distinct populations of sockeye and the only real similarity between them, other than being sockeye, is they all pass under Port Mann Bridge. Mixed-stock marine fisheries focus on just a few productive populations with most weaker populations of sockeye harvested as incidental bycatch. This, unfortunately, includes many critically endangered populations which cannot withstand the fishing pressure.”
While improvements to fishing and management practices are decreasing the impact of marine mixed-stock fisheries, a large part of the solution lies in moving fishing effort to known-stock terminal fisheries. Moving fishing effort to known-stock terminal fisheries allows for selective harvesting of only the productive salmon populations, and conserving those in danger of being overfished.
Taylor says preserving these genetically distinct populations is critical for the survival of salmon as a species.
“We are living through a difficult time in the history of salmon. Climate change is fundamentally altering their habitats and transforming the whole North Pacific ecosystem….Salmon are genetically diverse because they have evolved since the last ice age to recolonize huge territories with vastly different habitats. As we lose genetic diversity, we lose the adaptability of the species as a whole.”
Genetic diversity is not only important for future salmon fisheries. Success in current fisheries relies on a diversity of genetically-distinct salmon populations.
“Populations go up and down each year, and often not in tandem. If you have a diversity of populations it allows you to maintain commercial fisheries over time.”
David Moore, business manager at River Select, has been working to support terminal fisheries for many years. River Select is a fisheries cooperative that provides Indigenous terminal fisheries with logistics and marketing support. They currently work with five member companies from around the province.
River Select grew out of a policy board, the Inland Salmon Producers Association (ISPA), created with help from federal government funding to facilitate best practices around the growth and development of modern commercial terminal fisheries.
“ISPA created a First Nations self-certification system for the emerging inland commercial salmon fishery around a framework of quality, value and sustainability…. We had an involved understanding of terminal fisheries. We demonstrated they are viable, sustainable, and there are markets for these fish. But we realized the board was not the place for business, so we worked with a co-op developer and created River Select.”
One of River Select’s current initiatives is tied to the notion of traceability. They include a QR code on each package that links to stories and images about the fishery it came from.
“All salmon are different, depending which population they come from. They have different qualities, different tastes, and may be each best suited to different products. This really speaks to traditional knowledge.You can look at how traditional preparation methods were tied to those qualities and bring out the best depending on where they were harvested.”
Developing commercial terminal fisheries is more than a business proposition; it builds towards economic reconciliation for indigenous fishing communities whose economies were crippled by colonization.
Desiree Loyie, assistant manager at Talok Fisheries, grew up in the small communities of Lake Babine Nation in BC’s north. Now living with her family in Prince George, Desiree travels back every summer to her family’s home in Old Fort, and to Tachet where Talok Fisheries, a member of River Select, operates.
Communities in the territories of Lake Babine Nation are pretty quiet most of the year. But when the sockeye return, the communities come alive. People have a chance to earn some income as well as catch the salmon which will sustain them through the long winter months.
“Our people are salmon people. We live off salmon and rely on it heavily. A lot of people in our communities are low-income families. The salmon are a big part of how our people are able to survive. And there are so few opportunities for jobs or making money on reserve, the jobs created by Talok help our people immensely.”
Unfortunately, low returns, like last year’s, mean Talok’s commercial fishery does not open.
Terminal Fisheries
Known-stock terminal fisheries, practiced by Indigenous nations for thousands of years, could help solve salmon decline
Anna Kemp
July 20, 2018
Until approximately 120 years ago, the majority of BC salmon fisheries were terminal fisheries, practiced by First Nations. Terminal fisheries manage and harvest salmon in or near their natal streams, as they return to spawn. The development of industrial fisheries on the coast restricted and even outlawed many of these Indigenous terminal fisheries, fundamentally changing how salmon were managed in BC.
BC’s wild salmon now face a complex array of pressures, from habitat loss and degradation, to fish farm diseases, to climate change. Harvesting places additional pressure on already stressed populations. Many rivers see lower salmon returns every year, and our current fisheries management system has led to many populations being listed as threatened or endangered. Many argue we need to return to fisheries management strategies practiced successfully by First Nations for literally thousands of years. Shifting more of our commercial fisheries to known-stock terminal fisheries will help us rebuild endangered salmon populations, maintain the ecological health of our watersheds, and support economic development in First Nations fishing communities.
“Clearly, the management system that was in place prior to colonization was much more successful than the one we have now. Pre-contact, we saw the persistence of salmon populations and vibrant fishing economies through thousands of years, and now, post-contact, we have many populations in the critical red zone.”
Under current fisheries management practices, the majority of our commercial fisheries are marine mixed-stock. Greg Taylor, a fisheries management advisor who has worked in the BC seafood industry for over 30 years, explains the key challenge with marine mixed-stock fisheries:
“In the Fraser River there are 44 genetically distinct populations of sockeye and the only real similarity between them, other than being sockeye, is they all pass under Port Mann Bridge. Mixed-stock marine fisheries focus on just a few productive populations with most weaker populations of sockeye harvested as incidental bycatch. This, unfortunately, includes many critically endangered populations which cannot withstand the fishing pressure.”
While improvements to fishing and management practices are decreasing the impact of marine mixed-stock fisheries, a large part of the solution lies in moving fishing effort to known-stock terminal fisheries. Moving fishing effort to known-stock terminal fisheries allows for selective harvesting of only the productive salmon populations, and conserving those in danger of being overfished.
Taylor says preserving these genetically distinct populations is critical for the survival of salmon as a species.
“We are living through a difficult time in the history of salmon. Climate change is fundamentally altering their habitats and transforming the whole North Pacific ecosystem….Salmon are genetically diverse because they have evolved since the last ice age to recolonize huge territories with vastly different habitats. As we lose genetic diversity, we lose the adaptability of the species as a whole.”
Genetic diversity is not only important for future salmon fisheries. Success in current fisheries relies on a diversity of genetically-distinct salmon populations.
“Populations go up and down each year, and often not in tandem. If you have a diversity of populations it allows you to maintain commercial fisheries over time.”
David Moore, business manager at River Select, has been working to support terminal fisheries for many years. River Select is a fisheries cooperative that provides Indigenous terminal fisheries with logistics and marketing support. They currently work with five member companies from around the province.
River Select grew out of a policy board, the Inland Salmon Producers Association (ISPA), created with help from federal government funding to facilitate best practices around the growth and development of modern commercial terminal fisheries.
“ISPA created a First Nations self-certification system for the emerging inland commercial salmon fishery around a framework of quality, value and sustainability…. We had an involved understanding of terminal fisheries. We demonstrated they are viable, sustainable, and there are markets for these fish. But we realized the board was not the place for business, so we worked with a co-op developer and created River Select.”
One of River Select’s current initiatives is tied to the notion of traceability. They include a QR code on each package that links to stories and images about the fishery it came from.
“All salmon are different, depending which population they come from. They have different qualities, different tastes, and may be each best suited to different products. This really speaks to traditional knowledge.You can look at how traditional preparation methods were tied to those qualities and bring out the best depending on where they were harvested.”
Developing commercial terminal fisheries is more than a business proposition; it builds towards economic reconciliation for indigenous fishing communities whose economies were crippled by colonization.
Desiree Loyie, assistant manager at Talok Fisheries, grew up in the small communities of Lake Babine Nation in BC’s north. Now living with her family in Prince George, Desiree travels back every summer to her family’s home in Old Fort, and to Tachet where Talok Fisheries, a member of River Select, operates.
Communities in the territories of Lake Babine Nation are pretty quiet most of the year. But when the sockeye return, the communities come alive. People have a chance to earn some income as well as catch the salmon which will sustain them through the long winter months.
“Our people are salmon people. We live off salmon and rely on it heavily. A lot of people in our communities are low-income families. The salmon are a big part of how our people are able to survive. And there are so few opportunities for jobs or making money on reserve, the jobs created by Talok help our people immensely.”
Unfortunately, low returns, like last year’s, mean Talok’s commercial fishery does not open.
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