Important Victoria & Area SFAB Halibut Mtg Nov. 27

[SpringVelocity]

Some very good points made here by Iron Noggin. If we ever hope to increase our share of the TAC we have to show DFO and their political masters that 15% is NOT enough. If we always carefully manage our harvesting to be under our TAC, we may be seen as responsible, but we will never get to increase our TAC for doing this - as we continually prove to them we don't need any more. Time for a different approach if we want to increase out TAC - common sense dictates this!

Yeah it's called a 1 million plus court battle. Do you honestly think we can walk and take more TAC without going to court. Hey riddle me this how did we get out last TAC change? Any guesses? I know we love to believe town hall meetings made a difference but come on.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Looking at the catch data, the months with highest catch are June to Sept. Perhaps that is a good proxy?

In the 3 min conversation i was afforded about this at my SFAC meeting about this topic, The SFAB Exec that was their made the point against doing this as their is very little tac to gain by shutting down the shoulder season. Now we never did get to finish this conversation as halibut was not on our agenda.

However you make a good point without shutting down the shoulder season we will never blow through our tac. If we do plan on not having a shoulder season then if there is tac left come september it can always be extended.

 

[Jencourt]

Yeah it's called a 1 million plus court battle. Do you honestly think we can walk and take more TAC without going to court. Hey riddle me this how did we get out last TAC change? Any guesses? I know we love to believe town hall meetings made a difference but come on.

Ok I will play along. What is your version of what got the 3% that equates to less than hush money once they dumped on us an inflated mort based on a lack of consideration to how different our Slot was from the Alaska model they used.

 

[searun]

In the 3 min conversation i was afforded about this at my SFAC meeting about this topic, The SFAB Exec that was their made the point against doing this as their is very little tac to gain by shutting down the shoulder season. Now we never did get to finish this conversation as halibut was not on our agenda.

However you make a good point without shutting down the shoulder season we will never blow through our tac. If we do plan on not having a shoulder season then if there is tac left come september it can always be extended.

not exactly.

Here's some examples from the current 2019 model:

120 cm 1 fish - early reduction May 1 start = 33,703, whereas late reduction stopping season at Sept 30 = 22,762
133 cm 1 fish - early = 37,269; whereas late = 26,093

More benefit to be gained by late start than early finish.

Went back to 2017 numbers for interest to see coast-wide by month numbers

Feb = 17,199
Mar = 17,868
Apr = 16,985
May = 62,654
Jun = 273,084
Jul = 437,991
Aug = 285,883
Sept =26,302 ** note - Sept fishery closed on Sept 6 if memory is correct

Went back to 2016 to see what fall looked like:

Sept = 95,156
Oct = 23,064
Nov = 10,603
Dec = 1.091

Looking at the numbers we are likely to get to place where if the TAC continues declining that we have to start late, and be prepared to finish early if our value or goal is being able to keep a larger fish. We have a few more years of these challenges coming at us as Halibut abundance declines.

There's lots of potential solutions - most political and very difficult hills to climb. An easier, but still hard hill to climb, would be to put in a halibut stamp and take the $$ to complete a TAC buy-back program...which is far easier said than done btw. There's lots of TAC on the open market for sale....we just have to hold our noses and do it.

 

[halimark]

The end goal is to fish to the TAC. Our TAC is set by international agreement at the IPHC. DFO does not set Canada's TAC. Your not getting more until the abundance of halibut increases - and that is not happening based on the trends we are seeing at present. If you want to shoot yourself in the foot and catch as many as quickly as you can, and force an early closure the only people you hurt are those who planned their vacations later in the season. When its gone, its gone.

As I have stated before, if there is a group of people on this forum that actually want to take the reins and raise the capital and have the time to start a campaign - please do! The usual folks that are tossed under the bus for not doing this or that are a little over-subscribed on the large stack of issues impacting our fisheries at this moment in time...please, someone step up.

Firstly I fully appreciate all the work, time and dedication our SFAB members put in, you have a very hard task. Wow was not expecting that answer. I understand TAC and how its set. How do you know we are NOT getting more TAC until more abundance? With your "fish to TAC" proposals we will never get more TAC and WILL loose a season. Last time the Minister AWARDED us 3% . Commies requested a court case but we still have the 3%. This may be the best time to try for more TAC, new local fisheries Minister, states he understands and has knowledge of BC fisheries, (hope so if he was a guide), Fed Gov in do anything for votes and election looming.

As for your second point I see things differently, never said catch as many as quickly to force an early closure, I say stop playing DFO's game. Maybe I am in the minority but if SFAB keeps recommending less and less to "fish our TAC" sport fishers are done and WE ARE shooting ourselves in the foot. Its only gone if we keep "fishing to TAC" with less and less annually. Close it now and save energy, time, and future heartache or move to a Washington scenario. You state SFAB is not a lobby group and I understand this, but lets face it you ARE there to represent all sport fishers, if you presented a well planned with data "draw the line" COA at all meetings and to all who are involved then maybe this would be the voted COA for your presentation to DFO. With full use of TAC during the busy summer and the shitstorm impact it will bring on all BC it may be an awakening to all who can change. Give us the TAC.

The way I see things we have nothing to loose, with current COA's we all loose. Commies win and laugh. When my grandkids ask me why we cannot catch and keep halibut with current COA I will say because sport fishers rolled over and fished to TAC. I would much prefer to say because we fought like hell for TAC but our Fed Gov decided that commercial fisheries were deemed more important and DFO closed our season.

I do not have the data and Nog stated the idea better but I truly believe current COA and "fishing to TAC" is not a future win situation. More TAC and this nonsense goes away.

HM

 

[wildmanyeah]

Firstly I fully appreciate all the work, time and dedication our SFAB members put in, you have a very hard task. Wow was not expecting that answer. I understand TAC and how its set. How do you know we are NOT getting more TAC until more abundance? With your "fish to TAC" proposals we will never get more TAC and WILL loose a season. Last time the Minister AWARDED us 3% . Commies requested a court case but we still have the 3%. This may be the best time to try for more TAC, new local fisheries Minister, states he understands and has knowledge of BC fisheries, (hope so if he was a guide), Fed Gov in do anything for votes and election looming.

As for your second point I see things differently, never said catch as many as quickly to force an early closure, I say stop playing DFO's game. Maybe I am in the minority but if SFAB keeps recommending less and less to "fish our TAC" sport fishers are done and WE ARE shooting ourselves in the foot. Its only gone if we keep "fishing to TAC" with less and less annually. Close it now and save energy, time, and future heartache or move to a Washington scenario. You state SFAB is not a lobby group and I understand this, but lets face it you ARE there to represent all sport fishers, if you presented a well planned with data "draw the line" COA at all meetings and to all who are involved then maybe this would be the voted COA for your presentation to DFO. With full use of TAC during the busy summer and the shitstorm impact it will bring on all BC it may be an awakening to all who can change. Give us the TAC.

The way I see things we have nothing to loose, with current COA's we all loose. Commies win and laugh. When my grandkids ask me why we cannot catch and keep halibut with current COA I will say because sport fishers rolled over and fished to TAC. I would much prefer to say because we fought like hell for TAC but our Fed Gov decided that commercial fisheries were deemed more important and DFO closed our season.

I do not have the data and Nog stated the idea better but I truly believe current COA and "fishing to TAC" is not a future win situation. More TAC and this nonsense goes away.

HM

 

[searun]

Firstly I fully appreciate all the work, time and dedication our SFAB members put in, you have a very hard task. Wow was not expecting that answer. I understand TAC and how its set. How do you know we are NOT getting more TAC until more abundance? With your "fish to TAC" proposals we will never get more TAC and WILL loose a season. Last time the Minister AWARDED us 3% . Commies requested a court case but we still have the 3%. This may be the best time to try for more TAC, new local fisheries Minister, states he understands and has knowledge of BC fisheries, (hope so if he was a guide), Fed Gov in do anything for votes and election looming.

As for your second point I see things differently, never said catch as many as quickly to force an early closure, I say stop playing DFO's game. Maybe I am in the minority but if SFAB keeps recommending less and less to "fish our TAC" sport fishers are done and WE ARE shooting ourselves in the foot. Its only gone if we keep "fishing to TAC" with less and less annually. Close it now and save energy, time, and future heartache or move to a Washington scenario. You state SFAB is not a lobby group and I understand this, but lets face it you ARE there to represent all sport fishers, if you presented a well planned with data "draw the line" COA at all meetings and to all who are involved then maybe this would be the voted COA for your presentation to DFO. With full use of TAC during the busy summer and the shitstorm impact it will bring on all BC it may be an awakening to all who can change. Give us the TAC.

The way I see things we have nothing to loose, with current COA's we all loose. Commies win and laugh. When my grandkids ask me why we cannot catch and keep halibut with current COA I will say because sport fishers rolled over and fished to TAC. I would much prefer to say because we fought like hell for TAC but our Fed Gov decided that commercial fisheries were deemed more important and DFO closed our season.

I do not have the data and Nog stated the idea better but I truly believe current COA and "fishing to TAC" is not a future win situation. More TAC and this nonsense goes away.

HM

Where is the TAC coming from? DFO doesn't give it to us. That is decided at the IPHC - by international agreement each year. Canada gets an overall TAC, which is predicted to decrease again this year due to lowering abundance of halibut. There is no halibut bank to give us TAC from...so our available TAC will decrease along with Canada's. 85/15 is the current allocation policy - that can be changed in 3 ways generally that I know of.

One, a large political fish fight to convince government to allocate more than 15%. We are waiting for someone on here to take up the lead to organize. There are no more horses in the barn left to fight as we have way too many other battles going on. Two, a legal battle - very time consuming and expensive - do you have $200,000 to invest? Three, we can buy TAC - lots for sale - again, we need some way to raise $$ to make that happen.

Over to you - what are you going to lead and organize? I'm all in favour of someone here to take it on....so far crickets. We need help, and that has to come from others who have the time and commitment to take up this work. I think you appreciate that the SFAB folks are engaged in an advisory process dealing with what we have to work with, not to lobby for what we think we need. That work has to be done outside of the SFAB process.

 

[Jencourt]

not exactly.

Here's some examples from the current 2019 model:

120 cm 1 fish - early reduction May 1 start = 33,703, whereas late reduction stopping season at Sept 30 = 22,762
133 cm 1 fish - early = 37,269; whereas late = 26,093

More benefit to be gained by late start than early finish.

Went back to 2017 numbers for interest to see coast-wide by month numbers

Feb = 17,199
Mar = 17,868
Apr = 16,985
May = 62,654
Jun = 273,084
Jul = 437,991
Aug = 285,883
Sept =26,302 ** note - Sept fishery closed on Sept 6 if memory is correct

Went back to 2016 to see what fall looked like:

Sept = 95,156
Oct = 23,064
Nov = 10,603
Dec = 1.091

Looking at the numbers we are likely to get to place where if the TAC continues declining that we have to start late, and be prepared to finish early if our value or goal is being able to keep a larger fish. We have a few more years of these challenges coming at us as Halibut abundance declines.

There's lots of potential solutions - most political and very difficult hills to climb. An easier, but still hard hill to climb, would be to put in a halibut stamp and take the $$ to complete a TAC buy-back program...which is far easier said than done btw. There's lots of TAC on the open market for sale....we just have to hold our noses and do it.

I fully understand the temptation to try and raise funds and buy TAC. What I don’t like about it is this.

1- The Malcom case proves that TAC is still a common property resource held in trust by DFO. More importantly it is in DFO’s lawful right to allocate or re allocate that tac regardless of how much someone spent to have the false belief that they own it. I probably should ask. who would be
Buying it back? DFO ? With funds collected from Rec fishers?

2- Entering into this kind of Transaction will no doubtably open a never ending cycle of the same for any access Rec fishing would like to have.

Sorry but my spidey senses are on full alert with this one.
Unless there is some way to avoid all that it is still a hard no wen I am asked.

 

[halimark]

Sorry when I say more TAC I meant a better 85/15 split. I still believe that an early halibut closure and ensuing shitstorm may be the large political fight/issue to convince the Minister to award us a larger % as was done last time. Years and years of smaller fish, shorter seasons and other measures to fish to TAC will one day (soon) implode.

HM

 

[SerengetiGuide]

not exactly.

Here's some examples from the current 2019 model:

120 cm 1 fish - early reduction May 1 start = 33,703, whereas late reduction stopping season at Sept 30 = 22,762
133 cm 1 fish - early = 37,269; whereas late = 26,093

More benefit to be gained by late start than early finish.

Went back to 2017 numbers for interest to see coast-wide by month numbers

Feb = 17,199
Mar = 17,868
Apr = 16,985
May = 62,654
Jun = 273,084
Jul = 437,991
Aug = 285,883
Sept =26,302 ** note - Sept fishery closed on Sept 6 if memory is correct

Went back to 2016 to see what fall looked like:

Sept = 95,156
Oct = 23,064
Nov = 10,603
Dec = 1.091

Looking at the numbers we are likely to get to place where if the TAC continues declining that we have to start late, and be prepared to finish early if our value or goal is being able to keep a larger fish. We have a few more years of these challenges coming at us as Halibut abundance declines.

There's lots of potential solutions - most political and very difficult hills to climb. An easier, but still hard hill to climb, would be to put in a halibut stamp and take the $$ to complete a TAC buy-back program...which is far easier said than done btw. There's lots of TAC on the open market for sale....we just have to hold our noses and do it.

Using hand out DFO gave out at sfac meetings it states about 20,000 lbs savings by opening May 1st for example, yet actual witnessed numbers (like above) show around 50,000 lbs

Anyway, if May 1st opening and in theory 1/1 (still like the option of either or ) then 20,000 lbs savings would get us 3-4 cm larger on the 1/1 fish. 50,000 lbs gets us about 6-7cm extra on the one fish. So instead of 126cm we would have 133cm or instead of 133cm we would get 139cm etc. In my opinion well worth it. If only allowed one fish that makes a big difference IMO.

If trying to use as much tac as possible as well shouldn't we stop using a 10% cushion and instead use a 5% cushion? That would also result in a larger one fish.

 

[Fishtank]

I have a question, what's the estimate on the percentage of tac used on swiftsure and la paruse bank per year? Do we have a model or plan in place for if and when they close it?

 

[searun]

I have a question, what's the estimate on the percentage of tac used on swiftsure and la paruse bank per year? Do we have a model or plan in place for if and when they close it?

CH designation isn't closure. That is highly unlikely. Management Measures are under development via a number of Working Groups that start meeting next week.

 

[calmsea]

Using hand out DFO gave out at sfac meetings it states about 20,000 lbs savings by opening May 1st for example, yet actual witnessed numbers (like above) show around 50,000 lbs

Anyway, if May 1st opening and in theory 1/1 (still like the option of either or ) then 20,000 lbs savings would get us 3-4 cm larger on the 1/1 fish. 50,000 lbs gets us about 6-7cm extra on the one fish. So instead of 126cm we would have 133cm or instead of 133cm we would get 139cm etc. In my opinion well worth it. If only allowed one fish that makes a big difference IMO.

If trying to use as much tac as possible as well shouldn't we stop using a 10% cushion and instead use a 5% cushion? That would also result in a larger one fish.

Nice try, from your self centered perspective. But the largest number of hali rec anglers on the entire BC coast wants an early opening, best as early as Feb 1. You are not throwing all these anglers under the bus for your personal interests. The early season is not up for grabs, the south coast community is very clear about this. If it has to close early so be it, but no late start!

If you keep suggesting late starts I will propose mid summer closures again, how about 3 weeks in August? The TAC saved by that could give us a 140cm or even bigger fish!

 

[SerengetiGuide]

“In my opinion”. Read. And every sfac I’ve heard of so far voted for later start minus Victoria.

 

[Derby]

Nice try, from your self centered perspective. But the largest number of hali rec anglers on the entire BC coast wants an early opening, best as early as Feb 1. You are not throwing all these anglers under the bus for your personal interests. The early season is not up for grabs, the south coast community is very clear about this. If it has to close early so be it, but no late start!

If you keep suggesting late starts I will propose mid summer closures again, how about 3 weeks in August? The TAC saved by that could give us a 140cm or even bigger fish!

as stated before ..... not so calm.. Mr. Sea's ...

 

[ziggy]

N

“In my opinion”. Read. And every sfac I’ve heard of so far voted for later start minus Victoria.

Wonder if that’s because the people fishing there,live there and fish unguided as opposed to flying into lodges and or hiring guides? They have the ability to forgo the crappy tides and over abundance of dogfish because they aren’t on a week long junket. You have to also remember the so called voting on this issue was skewed by business interests! No one has polled the fishing community, which I blame on DFO.

You need to be careful here or people may start asking yet again how lodges have avoided being lumped in with Commercial fishery! I keep hearing how we all need to stick together, but when I keep hearing how we need to protect the businesses summer season, I start to wonder. How many of those who voted were Primary fishers with no business interests in the fishery?

 

[wolf]

Feb = 17,199
Mar = 17,868
Apr = 16,985

SEE these numbers just like what I stated before this is a fart in a dust storm to what is taken VERY little but ohhhh dont let us fish as I want to make sure in july and aug i can sell my trips this is what is really going on!!!!!! NOG has it right there is no sharing here its all about what certain areas want plain and simple ... Funny how we "use" up our quota so early sometimes and yet this year season with the reduction we had is still going???? could it be because DFO doesnt want to deal with it???? makes you wonder.....

 

[SpringVelocity]

I am not advocating shutting down early season as it screws my area in south. I would prefer the fall close if anything if we really had 2. Our area in Nanaimo didn't vote for late start? I think we have a lot anglers next to Vic as well and many were primary that voted? Many of those come down and fish South??





`

 

[SpringVelocity]

Ok I will play along. What is your version of what got the 3% that equates to less than hush money once they dumped on us an inflated mort based on a lack of consideration to how different our Slot was from the Alaska model they used.

It costs about six figures. Our groups got dragged in courtroom ( which costs $$$$) last time defending us. Hey one second where did that money come from? Maybe business helped with funding? We seem to forgot about that. Yes minister said yes but the commercials pushed it in court to challenge him. You think JP is going to not challenge us if we try to grab more TAC?? We need a good million with group with lawyers is what I am saying, and that is a fact. So like everyone who is getting us this money, and which group is doing it? Only ones in my mind set-up is SVIAC. The rest of advocacy groups are fighting to save our salmon season right now so we can even go fishing.

And on last thing businesses. I am hearing a lot of business controls this and business controls SFAB. I hate to break it to a few of you but I see a lot of business owners complaining about it on this thread and driving the conversation. I have to ask why? This fear we all have about businesses is going to sink us. Again where is the money coming from to fight DFO?

 

[profisher]

The vast majority of anglers in BC do NOT have a business interest in their hobby and passion. That is why the SFAB terms of reference gives the primary anglers the deciding vote at all levels of the various boards. With the reps in place that is not the case right now. I think that the SFAB will find out just how much of a revolt is going to happen here in Victoria if the season is shortened to favour business interests first. Victoria voted for a Feb start but were willing to have a March 1st season start as last year if the TAC is close to the same as 2018. On the south Island it is all about currents and the months that offer up the most days with longer periods of slower moving currents so you can fish on anchor effectively for more than an hour. (which is often all you get on a summer day here in July & August) Feb through May is when those good current days occur and also happens to be before dogfish arrive in June. Take that period away because of a reduced TAC and there will be a rumble against DFO....take it away because business wants to make sure June to Sept is open and you will get a roar down here in Victoria against the SFAB.