HST or PST check out this link..too long for me to post

[NautiGirl]

BIG corporations? Is that the boogeyman to you? Did you know that most corporation in BC are not actually big? They are small businesses trying to grow and will hire local people to do so? When they save money they generally invest it back into their business to grow it, or they spend it at other small businesses such as building contractors, restaurants, bars, etc...

 

[NautiGirl]

The reason the government uses stickman ads is because the average taxpayer in Canada has a reading level of grade 8 or 9. Reaching them is not a waste, just a stretch to teach them some economics and stop the fear mongering. All you have to do is research the tax rates around the world. Canada and BC have very competitive rates in order to encourage business to return from abroad, or grow from within as either a sole proprietorship or a corporation. Governments in Canada are collecting a lower share than they used to, so stop whining, man up and pay your taxes. You want roads.Yes. Parks.Yes. Fisheries/habitat protection.Yes. Schools for your children. Yes. Hospital for your mother. Yes. Then pay for it.

People are so predictable. Give them a chance to point at the other guy and say the grass is too green over there, my life is so hard....It is hard for everyone. If this was a few generations back, the government would take your tax and church would be after it too. I'm not a religious guy, but the services the churches used to provide with the 15% they asked as a donation are now being provided by other smaller charities and government agencies. The church revenues are down and they are selling land and canning preachers to downsize. Everyone was scared of ragging on the church and questioning why they needed so much money, so they kept their mouth shut. They provided services that the government now provides, so now everyone can freak out on the government and blame the politicians. Similar services, just a different uniform.

Call it tax, call it charity, call it socialism, call it Canada. You might not have that big house you think you deserve, or the dodge hemi super guzzler that nobody in their right mind who can balance a chequebook or understand gas prices would buy, but you are one hell of a lot better off than the most of the world. Maybe a move to another country would make you happy?

You might have lower tax/no sales tax if you move to certain US states. When you need a heart operation, make sure you stay there to receive your bill. I am sure you could remortgage your big box home to pay the bill.

I have read studies that the Scandinavian countries have the happiest people on the planet. Do they have the lowest tax? No. They are actually fairly highly taxed. Way more than in Canada. They pay their tax and demand quality services from their government. It works.

Take a look at the rest of the world. Take a look at your community. Think about the bigger picture.

Here's a KPMG sample of government responses to dropping revenue last fall (if you don't like stick men):
In Western Europe, the upward trend initiated by Ireland last year has spread as anticipated. While the top Irish rate went up by 1 percent in 2010, the UK dominated headlines with a 10 percent increase raising its top rate from 40 percent in 2009/10 to 50 percent in 2010/11 – the highest rate increase seen globally this year.

Other Western European governments have followed suit in an attempt to increase tax revenues. Iceland, amid the collapse of the banking sector, replaced its flat tax regime with a progressive approach raising the top personal income tax rate by approximately 9 percent. Greece, in response to public deficit concerns, raised its top rate by 5 percent. Portugal, and most recently France raised top rates by 3 percent and 1 percent respectively to help address budget shortfalls. Even the Isle of Man, with a long standing top rate of 18 percent, saw a 2 percent increase to 20 percent in 2010/11. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Denmark opted for a stimulus package in hopes of increasing consumer spending and as a result, decreased its top rate by almost 7 percent. Croatia, this past July, also dropped its top rate by five percent.

Brad Maxell comments, “Whether the tax rate increases strike the right balance and have the intended impact has yet to be seen. Everyone may have a role to play in supporting their national deficit reduction measures but the fact that high income earners often have more mobility options should not be overlooked. Attracting such individuals, including their tax revenues and disposable income, using a competitive personal tax rate market while tackling budget deficits remains the challenge.”

Look at OECD statistics regarding sales tax rates in Canada and compare to other countries (if you don't like stick men)
http://www.oecd.org/document/0,3746,en_2649_201185_46462759_1_1_1_1,00.html

Taxes on goods and services
As a percentage of gross domestic product

2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
Australia 9.0 8.8 8.6 8.3 8.0 7.9 7.4 ..
Austria 12.6 12.4 12.3 12.1 11.7 11.6 11.6 12.0
Belgium 11.0 10.9 11.2 11.3 11.3 11.0 10.8 10.9
Canada 8.9 8.9 8.7 8.5 8.1 7.9 7.6 7.7
Chile 12.2 11.7 11.2 11.1 10.0 10.5 11.4 10.0
Czech Republic 10.8 11.1 11.8 11.8 11.2 11.1 11.5 11.6
Denmark 16.0 15.8 16.0 16.3 16.4 16.3 15.6 15.3
Finland 13.5 14.1 13.8 13.8 13.6 12.9 13.0 13.6
France 11.1 11.0 11.1 11.1 10.8 10.7 10.6 10.5
Germany 10.3 10.4 10.1 10.1 10.0 10.5 10.5 11.0
Greece 12.3 11.4 11.0 11.0 11.5 11.5 11.4 10.6
Hungary 14.2 14.9 15.3 14.8 14.3 15.0 14.9 15.4
Iceland 14.4 15.1 16.0 17.1 17.6 16.4 13.6 11.9
Ireland 10.8 10.7 11.2 11.4 11.4 11.2 10.7 9.7
Israel 1 13.0 12.9 13.0 12.7 12.4 12.8 12.6 12.3
Italy 11.2 10.7 10.8 10.8 11.1 11.0 10.6 10.6
Japan 5.3 5.2 5.3 5.3 5.2 5.1 5.1 5.1
Korea 9.0 8.9 8.4 8.2 8.1 8.3 8.4 8.2
Luxembourg 10.6 10.5 11.2 10.9 10.0 9.8 9.9 10.4
Mexico 8.1 9.1 9.5 10.2 10.3 9.5 12.4 8.8
Netherlands 11.6 11.7 11.9 12.2 12.1 12.0 11.8 ..
New Zealand 11.9 11.9 11.8 11.8 11.8 11.1 11.4 11.4
Norway 13.3 12.9 12.7 12.1 12.0 12.4 10.9 11.6
Poland 12.1 12.2 11.9 12.7 13.3 13.0 13.0 ..
Portugal 12.6 12.8 12.7 13.4 13.7 13.2 12.9 ..
Slovak Republic 11.4 12.0 12.3 12.6 11.4 11.3 10.5 10.5
Slovenia 13.9 14.0 13.8 13.6 13.3 13.2 13.2 14.1
Spain 9.6 9.7 9.8 9.9 9.9 9.5 8.3 7.1
Sweden 12.7 12.7 12.6 12.8 12.6 12.6 12.8 13.5
Switzerland 6.8 6.8 6.8 6.9 6.8 6.6 6.3 6.3
Turkey 11.5 12.8 11.5 12.0 11.9 11.5 11.0 11.2
United Kingdom 11.3 11.2 11.1 10.8 10.6 10.5 10.3 10.0
United States 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.8 4.8 4.7 4.6 4.4
OECD-Total 2 11.1 11.2 11.2 11.3 11.1 11.0 10.8

Our taxes are low in Canada. Everyone who is bitching about tax now probably didn't even notice that rates have declined in the last 15 years across Canada and in BC. I think people just like to ***** and complain. If we had lynch mobs in BC, Gordo would be on public display, and people would be happy.

Unfortunately someone has to run the place and they need a tax system and revenues to do it. PST is a bad system that costs too much to run, is confusing with too many exemptions, and oh yeah, the government has gotten rid of the staff and closed offices that dealt with it.

Are you ready to run the budget? Step right up. Right after you study accounting and economics.

 

[danthewire]

Ten Mile I TOTALLY understand the HST.Like I said you do your own spreadsheets, make an informed choice, ADD up all the taxes you pay. Vote accordinally.
The -point I am making is taxes are too high in general. I can do math.
YOU CANNOT tax your way to prosperity.
The economy is heading underground.
Go ask small buisnesses how things really are.
As a small buisness owner I love the tax. Its great.
Unfortunately consumers are pissed, no customers, no buisness.
This is a fact, I am going through it right now.
I've been around 30 plus years, I see the trend starting.
I bid a job at 10K hst is $1200 on top
Buddy says hey I can do it for 9500 under the table guess who doesn't get the job? Oh but you say there was hst paid on the materials by the cash guy.
Yep thats right,all 600 bucks of it on material.
We'll see what happens.
Dan.

 

[yammy5]

I think you missed the point NAUTIGIRL, most of us are completely willing to pay our fair share of taxes. Our complaint is that the government is introducing a TAX GRAB and is shifting 1.4 billion from business to the consumer. For 60 years BC business has been successful with the PST and suddenly Gordo rammed HST down our throats with lies about it being revenue neutral and the promise of massive job creation. All lies. Only 2400 jobs will be created per year and at a cost of 1.4 billion, that means we're paying $600,000 in tax per job. It's a bad joke. Show us well constructed, intelligent tax solutions and the taxpayers will be more inclined to pay.

 

[eastpoint]

To me it is the principle of how this HST was done.

If we let the dictatorial governments get away with the HST then we will get more of the same. We are supposed to live in a democracy, yet this HST was a total lie.

Time to take our lumps and start over with something that the people believe in.

Many services are now taxed at 12% that only had 5% before. MANY!. Every friggin time I turn around bc liberals are taking more money from ME. Gordo was the puppet of big business. BC liberals care very little about anybody on this site.

I will vote YES to extinguish the Hated Sales Tax.
I have a small business but my principles are not for sale.

Less tax is a better tax.

Eastpoint

 

[alwaysfishn]

Less tax is a better tax.

Eastpoint

And you're voting for a 12% tax over a 10% tax??

I've never seen a political issue where people are so upset with the process of how the HST was introduced, that they won't even take out their calculator to figure out that 10% is less than 12%!

Under PST we paid 12% tax on approximately 80% of the goods and services and 5% on the remaining 20%.
Under HST we pay 12% on 100% of everything, but it is going down to 10%.

Using a $1000 basket of goodies you would pay 12%x$800 plus 5%x$200 = $96+$10= $106 in PST/GST
Under 10% HST you will pay $100 in HST

That is $6 less under the HST

Where it makes a big difference is the big ticket items like appliances or vehicles.

Pull out your calculator and vote to keep the HST!

 

[yammy5]

"The HST is 12% and will not be 10% for three years – if ever. There will be an election before that, and even if the HST were to miraculously drop to 10% - it will still apply to hundreds more goods and services than a 12% PST/GST for a consumer tax increase of $1.6B per year. " online source.

...and God help you if you need to purchase a big ticket item that now has the HST applied. Paint your house or get your roof done and you'll be paying a LOT of extra tax but the Liberal spinners and alwaysfishn never include those sorts of expenses in their calculations. That's why we are already seeing the creation of the underground 'cash' market and all sorts of tax avoidance. Punch that into your calculator.

 

[scott craven]

If the Liberals were smart they would have made the rollback to 10% immediate.
Then there is a tangible reason to vote for the HST.
a promise of a reduction 2 years from now ???
well that's only a promise made by a gov't who has a track record of breaking them.

 

[Tips Up]

Great points East Point. My principals are not for sale either.

Just based on the fact that HST was jammed down our throat or up another body part, the campaign is set up to vote "yes" to say "no" and all the pro HST advertising is misleading... I have no trust in the Liberals and will vote to extinguish the HST.
Christy Clarke may as well be Christy Campbell.

I believe the $120 savings per household is $120 savings from the current HST not from the GST/PST of the past. Don't believe everything you read. The best way to tell if a Liberal is lying is if their mouth is moving.

Sadly when HST is gone I don't think we will see GST/ PST run the same as it was before. They will now find away to get our 12% anyways. There will magically be PST on things that never had it before.

Don't bend over BC.

IMHO.

Tips

 

[TenMile]

The economy is heading underground.
Go ask small buisnesses how things really are.
As a small buisness owner I love the tax. Its great.
Unfortunately consumers are pissed, no customers, no buisness.
This is a fact, I am going through it right now.
I've been around 30 plus years, I see the trend starting.
I bid a job at 10K hst is $1200 on top
Buddy says hey I can do it for 9500 under the table guess who doesn't get the job? Oh but you say there was hst paid on the materials by the cash guy.

Interesting timely article on this in the Globe and Mail today: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...round-economy-tops-30-billion/article2078228/

Our underground "cash" economy has topped $30B annually, however as a % of GDP, it has fallen from 2.7% in the early 1990s to 2.2% today.

This is a good thread. So all those who want to rip the Liberals out of office....what do you propose as the alternative party choice here in BC to keep your taxes low? The NDP -- good luck seeing lower taxes under a social-democratic agenda. After driving BC's economy into the tank over 10 years I'm really eager to elect those guys again.

It's completely distasteful the way this tax was introduced. We were indeed lied to and I strongly believe we got swept up in the massive Ego 3 consecutive majority governments gave Gordon Campbell. However, he's gone now -- democracy did it's job, and we will have the ability to elect a new mandate this fall. This tax is exactly the same type of tax as the GST. It replaces a "hidden" tax (as did the GST, replacing a hidden tax of 11-13.5%). It's pretty hard to argue that Canada's economy is in much better shape than it was when the GST and Free Trade were introduced in the late '80's. While these taxes weren't completely responsible, they did make Canada's products more competitive on a world stage and helped us achieve one of the best economies in the world.

Me, I'm holding my nose and voting to keep the HST in place.

 

[yammy5]

From David Shreck, ECONOMIST: "Those with billions of dollars a year at stake, and the BC Liberals who they finance, are beginning to sound desperate. A credible government would recognize it made a mistake. It would recognize that the other western provinces get along very well without the HST, as BC did for over 60 years until Gordon Campbell surprised everyone within days of the last election.

I support the PST/GST system and will vote YES because it is best for my family and for the province. Look at who is financing the other side and ask who they want to benefit. "

 

[alwaysfishn]

From David Shreck, ECONOMIST: "Those with billions of dollars a year at stake, and the BC Liberals who they finance, are beginning to sound desperate. A credible government would recognize it made a mistake. It would recognize that the other western provinces get along very well without the HST, as BC did for over 60 years until Gordon Campbell surprised everyone within days of the last election.

I support the PST/GST system and will vote YES because it is best for my family and for the province. Look at who is financing the other side and ask who they want to benefit. "

Let's be a little more accurate.... "David D. Schreck is a one-time Member of the Legislative Assembly in the province of British Columbia in Canada and a political pundit.

Schreck represented the riding of North Vancouver-Lonsdale from 1991 to 1996 for the New Democratic Party of British Columbia. He served as parliamentary secretary to the Premier and to a Minister of Employment and Investment.

He won election in 1991 by half a percentage point (less than 500 votes) but lost his seat in the 1996 BC election, by more than 10 per cent of the vote, to Katherine Anne Whittred. Afterwards, Schreck failed to win a councillor's seat for the District of North Vancouver and declared he would not again run in a political election. His term as MLA was his only successful bid after tries in the 1983, 1986, and 1991 provincial elections and the 1984 federal election.

He publishes political commentary on his website, StrategicThoughts.com, and appears weekly on Victoria radio station CFAX with host Murray Langdon. His background is in economics. Schreck received a degree in that field from Grinnell College in 1969 and a Ph.D. from the University of British Columbia in 1978."

Take whatever he says with his political, rather than "economic" background in mind.

 

[yammy5]

That would be Dr. Shreck you are referring to, Ph.D. in Economics. He has the credentials you hold so high and the experience to make an expert assessment of the HST. I encourage you to go to his website as you may learn something.

 

[Mike_R]

Wow! I'm impressed on how civil this thread has been. Kudos to the members of this forum! There is some good information here. I haven't decided how I'm going to vote yet but this thread has given me some points to ponder.

 

[Gunsmith]

Wow! I'm impressed on how civil this thread has been. Kudos to the members of this forum! There is some good information here. I haven't decided how I'm going to vote yet but this thread has given me some points to ponder.

Yes I do agree as people are getting fed up with taxes and are becoming very touchy on this subject. I am glad to see that everybody is respecting all opinions whether they agree or not. Wish we could get the same respect from our governments.

 

[alwaysfishn]

I have debated the HST with many folks over the last few months and there is a common theme....

Among the anti-HST group the most common stance is "I hate Gordon Campbell, therefore I hate the government, so I don't trust them and voting against the HST will show the government they can't do whatever they have done". The other theme for some anti-HST voters and the undecided, is they don't understand the HST but they have heard it's bad.

For the first group voting on the basis of emotion there is no convincing them differently. They are unwilling to even glance at the supporting facts of why the HST is good for BC, because they do not plan on changing their vote under any circumstances. For the second group or the undecided, all they need is information.

Whether you vote for or against HST is your choice. However before you vote be sure you understand what you are voting for. This thread has a lot of info both for and against the HST.

 

[Labman2]

guys, not trying to defend AF here, but, he is on atleast 3 or 4 other forums that im on, and although him and i dont agree much, i can tell ya that he is legit, and not likely a "troll", controversial with his views?, sure, but he os on FWR, FISHBC, FVI, and BCFR if i remember rite....holmes*

Hey Holmes, take a look at the other sites and the content of his posts, like the 26 here, 1 about Smoking salmon, 1 about the LEH draws the rest POLITICAL. I read 63 pages on another site, all the same!

 

[rico]

To me, it's very simple.
Does my family pay more under the PST/GST, or the HST?

Answer : By extinguishing the HST, i have more money in my pocket.

Dont tell me I save money inder the HST, because i know i don't. Even the ads say that the HST will cost the average family at least 350 dollars more per year. My family is not average, I have 3 kids. o what is that 5-700 more?? Why on earth would i agree to that?

Bye Bye HST!!

 

[alwaysfishn]

Hey Holmes, take a look at the other sites and the content of his posts, like the 26 here, 1 about Smoking salmon, 1 about the LEH draws the rest POLITICAL. I read 63 pages on another site, all the same!

I appreciate you tracking my posting stats.... I'll have to check out yours.

 

[Labman2]

I appreciate you tracking my posting stats.... I'll have to check out yours.

NO problem, Fishing sites I post about Fishing, Hunting Sites it's about Hunting, Artic Cat it's about Prowlers, Industrial sites it's about being a Const. Supt., investment sites it's about how to watch your own money,etc, etc, etc...........