Herring roe fishery
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wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
I wonder how many signatures ENGO's could get if the petitioned to stop sportfishing for salmon? They could use word phrases like, "All summer long thousands of boats hammer the migrating salmon!", " This has been going on for decades! When will it ever stop?" or "Why will DFO not stop the slaughter of dwindling Chinook that SRKW's need for their existence??".
I recently had a friend try hard to convince me to write to the herring assessment coordinator and demand the fishery be shut down. He said everyone else is doing it so I should too. I told him that I would be contributing into the same trap that we are caught in as sportfishers. I believe fisheries should be managed by science and not by political pressuring. The petition doesn't tell the truth either. Herring is not the base of the food web feeding all fish and other life, plankton would be. Chinook's diet is not 80% herring. They eat a variety of other sea critters like krill, sand lance, eulachon, squid, and many other assorted fish. So this petition does attempt to gain support by lying. Typical
I recently had a friend try hard to convince me to write to the herring assessment coordinator and demand the fishery be shut down. He said everyone else is doing it so I should too. I told him that I would be contributing into the same trap that we are caught in as sportfishers. I believe fisheries should be managed by science and not by political pressuring. The petition doesn't tell the truth either. Herring is not the base of the food web feeding all fish and other life, plankton would be. Chinook's diet is not 80% herring. They eat a variety of other sea critters like krill, sand lance, eulachon, squid, and many other assorted fish. So this petition does attempt to gain support by lying. Typical
fish4all
Well-Known Member
Well said. Excellent points. The rec sector will have its turn with the NGO community.
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Science Means Lower Herring Harvests in the Gulf of Georgia
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...arvests-in-the-gulf-of-georgia-870488951.html
The bad news is this years herring fishery could not reach their quota due to the weak health of the stock.
The good news is next years quota will be reduced.
The best news would be to stop the herring fishery until such time the stocks return to historic levels!
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...arvests-in-the-gulf-of-georgia-870488951.html
The bad news is this years herring fishery could not reach their quota due to the weak health of the stock.
The good news is next years quota will be reduced.
The best news would be to stop the herring fishery until such time the stocks return to historic levels!
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Will you support a reduced quote on this years herring fishery this year??
The quote below is taken directly from the link provided by fogged in. The current fishery is based on a 20% harvest rate of the biomass. It sounds like DFO has been conservative in their biomass assessments of late and the harvest rate has actually been below the 20% level. In my opinion this particular fishery is one of the few fisheries that DFO is managing competently. That being said, given the low rate of return that fisherman actually get for herring, herring roe, or roe on kelp...................................
From Fogged in's link to something resembling science
"HCRS believes that quotas in recent years were set at conservative levels that are well below the harvest rates recommended by eminent international scientists on the Pew Charitable Trust Lenfest Task Force on Forage Fish allowing sufficient fish for ecosystem needs. There is no evidence of any correlation between herring stocks and predator status, including Chinook salmon. Herring stocks, like most forage fish, are highly dynamic and significant increases or decreases are not unusual based mainly on changes in natural mortality factors. At harvest rates well below the Pew recommendations, it is not commercial fisheries that drive stock performance."
From Fogged in's link to something resembling science
"HCRS believes that quotas in recent years were set at conservative levels that are well below the harvest rates recommended by eminent international scientists on the Pew Charitable Trust Lenfest Task Force on Forage Fish allowing sufficient fish for ecosystem needs. There is no evidence of any correlation between herring stocks and predator status, including Chinook salmon. Herring stocks, like most forage fish, are highly dynamic and significant increases or decreases are not unusual based mainly on changes in natural mortality factors. At harvest rates well below the Pew recommendations, it is not commercial fisheries that drive stock performance."
Commercial fisheries can certainly drive stock performance. " Using Precaution in Fisheries Management The precautionary principle encourages more conservative management decisions at times of high uncertainty about the ecological impacts of fisheries, and especially in relation to serious or irreversible harm, such as the extreme depletion or extinction of a species (Garcia 1994, Parkes 2000, Gerrodette et al. 2002). In a single-species context, this is often applied by estimating reference points or thresholds through which certain key indicators of the exploited population should not pass, and which, if passed, result in an abrupt change in management policy. The uncertainties around these key indicators are also included in the setting of harvest rates and other management actions so that there is a low probability of passing the reference points established. For instance, a harvest level may be set so that there is a 10 percent or smaller chance of exceeding a predetermined maximum fishing mortality rate, FLIM. As uncertainty about the stock status and implementation outcomes increases, managers need to set a lower annual catch limit to ensure that the resulting exploitation rate has a low probability of exceeding the limit point. Application of the precautionary principle is more difficult for forage fish management in an ecosystem context than for single-species fisheries management. First, the productivity of the stock is often more dynamic and less predictable than is the case for other species because of life-history characteristics that lead the fish to be sensitive to changing environmental conditions. It may be difficult to quantify this uncertainty in terms of estimated population biomass levels. Second, because the ability to catch forage fish may increase at low stock sizes, fisheries can push stocks to collapse (Csirke 1989). Thus, risk-averse policies need to be implemented unless detailed information is available on the spatial pattern of fisheries that allows pending collapses to be recognized well in advance. Third, information on the status of forage fish predators and their dependence on particular forage species is often limited and highly uncertain."
searun
Well-Known Member
A lot of science effort has been invested into developing a robust model for evaluating herring stocks, which includes assessing the ecosystem requirements of other species dependent upon herring as prey. From my limited involvement in the process, my impression is the Department Science staff are working hard to iterate improvements and apply a cautious approach to managing the fishery to ensure it is sustainable.
The SFAB asked for the simulation run employed by the MSE to be updated to also take into account the prey requirements of Chinook. If they can successfully add this to the model, that will in my view improve its accuracy at achieving a truly sustainable harvest. I'm confident and supportive that careful ecosystem modelling and robust management protocols will help us achieve a sustainable fishery. Not quite there yet, but improving. IMO so long as the fishery is carefully managed to be sustainable, I see nothing wrong with it.
Here's a little worthwhile reading to gain more info on the MSE model:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/Publications/SAR-AS/2019/2019_001-eng.html
The SFAB asked for the simulation run employed by the MSE to be updated to also take into account the prey requirements of Chinook. If they can successfully add this to the model, that will in my view improve its accuracy at achieving a truly sustainable harvest. I'm confident and supportive that careful ecosystem modelling and robust management protocols will help us achieve a sustainable fishery. Not quite there yet, but improving. IMO so long as the fishery is carefully managed to be sustainable, I see nothing wrong with it.
Here's a little worthwhile reading to gain more info on the MSE model:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/Publications/SAR-AS/2019/2019_001-eng.html
If the Department Science staff are working sooo hard why have the herring balls not returned into Burrard Inlet yet? How many more decades to wait until no one recalls ever seeing a herring ball in this area. Leave the dam herring alone so they can properly recover to their natural levels in the food chain. If it wasn't for the great work the stream keepers are doing there wouldn't be any herring around Burrard Inlet/ Howe Sound.
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Same can be said for the herring stocks off Victoria AND lack of herring in Active Pass.
The stocks are NO WHERE NEAR the levels of the past!
That's a FACT!!!
AND sea birds are dying as a result.
The stocks are NO WHERE NEAR the levels of the past!
That's a FACT!!!
AND sea birds are dying as a result.
searun
Well-Known Member
Maybe you lads should take a few moments and read the background info on the MSE modelling and how the management decisions are made. Making science-based decisions around fishery management cuts both ways...perhaps you would feel differently is we were talking about Chinook harvest? I gather there aren't enough of those either, and it appears SRKW, seals and sea lions are heavily dependent upon them for food so there is no harvestable surplus despite what the science says....let's just close the recreational Chinook fishery...what a great idea. What's the difference with herring? Same argument really.
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Get serious searun!!!!
This year the commercial fishing of Chinook salmon has been all but shut down and Recreation fishing severely reduced with annual limits reduced from 20 or 30 per year to 10, daily limits reduced 50% and total closures with limited opportunities.
Same cannot be said of the Herring Fishery!!
Time is LONG OVERDUE for severe Herring harvest cutbacks.
Comparing Recreational Chinook to herring/chum fishery is a bit far fetched....
We don’t sell our fish to overseas markets.
Recreational Chinook keeps our local businesses, communities , guides thriving and prosperous.
What does the herring/ fishery do for our local economies?
How many people does it employ?
We don’t sell our fish to overseas markets.
Recreational Chinook keeps our local businesses, communities , guides thriving and prosperous.
What does the herring/ fishery do for our local economies?
How many people does it employ?
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Now that is way over the top on the ignorance and ridiculous scale!!!
Have you ANY IDEA of the percentage of Herring taken in B.C. waters that are harvested for Salmon Bait compared to the Harvest taken for the exporting of Herring roe???
searun
Well-Known Member
Like I said, good idea to read the MSE approach. If you take the time to actually read it carefully, you will see that the MSE approach has clear conservation objectives constructed into the model and simulation runs, and if the conservation objectives are not met, no fishery takes place. You will also note there are various harvest thresholds that can be tested or simulated to determine if they meet the conservation objectives.
In other words, the new approach is significantly more robust and precautionary than any employed thus far. 2020 forecast for many areas shows conservation objectives are only met if there is little to no removals from harvest.
So a careful approach, and not at all what you are portraying here. Is it perfect - no. But DFO science is working on bringing in additional ecosystem data to ensure there are enough herring to meet the needs of Chinook for example.
And, I have no issue with a careful, science-based harvest for herring in the same way I have no issue with a careful science-based approach to harvest Chinook. Let's also remember, there are jobs and economic inputs to Canada attached to these fisheries, and if they can be sustainable what is your issue with that?
In other words, the new approach is significantly more robust and precautionary than any employed thus far. 2020 forecast for many areas shows conservation objectives are only met if there is little to no removals from harvest.
So a careful approach, and not at all what you are portraying here. Is it perfect - no. But DFO science is working on bringing in additional ecosystem data to ensure there are enough herring to meet the needs of Chinook for example.
And, I have no issue with a careful, science-based harvest for herring in the same way I have no issue with a careful science-based approach to harvest Chinook. Let's also remember, there are jobs and economic inputs to Canada attached to these fisheries, and if they can be sustainable what is your issue with that?
Kind of like our forestry science-based harvest. If we don't change we are doomed and the jobs won't be there either.https://thenarwhal.ca/hundreds-of-h...le-infestation-used-to-accelerate-clear-cuts/
searun
Well-Known Member
Like I said, good idea to take the time to review and understand the MSE approach. Much of the rant you're slinging is considered in there. If we take your views on how to approach the herring fishery, what is stopping others from taking the same approach to your recreational Chinook fishery. If I followed your line of logic I would close it down.
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