Halibut Quota Taboo Subject on SFBC?

[UkeeDreamin]

Seems like this is now a verboten topic on this forum … odd as this is a fishing forum, is it not? Valid thread with no inflammatory posts other than a derail by one member's ongoing rant about members with multiple accounts. Seems like a very odd reason to remove a thread?

Personally I quite appreciate those who provide updates, and in particular the data, on fishery management issues that affect us all (because as we all know DFO is not good at sharing it openly!!). I don't expect everyone to share my opinion on fish mgmt matters and I doubt if anyone else is naive enough to think there will be universal consensus. If these forums aren't for discussing such things, what are they for really? So long as people manage their emotions and put fish mgmt into proper perspective - i.e. it isn't important enough to ever justify personal attacks or insults, I would hope threads and posts that discuss and debate key fish mgmt issues wouldn't be discouraged.

As for the mysteriously disappearing halibut thread would have been nice to see the derail rant and personal attacks, that were unrelated to the topic, removed, the offending member put on a time out if deemed necessary and the thread allowed to carry on.

Anyway, I continue to enjoy this forum, by far the best BC fishing forum, and appreciate the efforts of those running it.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[Admin]

Halibut threads are welcome, however, that one was a complete mess from the get go. As I have had to clean up many an argument in the past and given that this thread had barely started, I chose to remove it. The same arguments that occur over and over again get a little tiresome to clean up, so as long as it can remain civil and those involved on the volunteer side are not constantly called out for "not doing enough" for the recreational fishing community, then by all means, share the information and offer creative solutions to help the cause. But, the minute it turns into a ***** fest that does nothing but divide the fishing community, it will get yanked.

 

[SpringVelocity]

I agree it gets a little old bashing the sfab and SFI and other groups in posts. While everyone has right to complain why are the local meetings across many local areas maybe 30 to 50 people at most. Even the SFAB main board meeting they have in spring that is open to public hardly anyone goes. It's better to talk to these people in person than on the forum. Just my view. That halibut decision is tricky one. My suggestion is get to know your local rep and discuss these issues face to face.

 

[UkeeDreamin]

I don't disagree, which makes the removal of the quota thread so puzzling. The only bashing came from a member continuing his rant about multiple identities on this forum and he did so in a very personal and offensive way. By all means shut him down. However the discussion about where the quota stood and the management actions that should be considered didn't mention anything about the SFAB/C or SFI role or efforts.

Your forum but my opinion you made a bad call on this one, over-reacted to a rant not associated with the subject matter and pulled a thread on a topic that is about as important an issue as any currently faced by our sector.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[Aces]

There was no link with proof about the Halibut catch, only some random numbers.
I'm glad it was deleted and i agree with the member that you say was involved in a personal rant about the people with multiple accounts.....it is real and troubling.

 

[bigdogeh]

I agree with Ukee and thxs for starting this thread,
If there were problems with the members figures, or inaccuracies then maybe they should have been pointed out rather than the thread deleted. if it's proven that a member is using multiple logins, a warning or suspension could be issued, but there should still be rules pertaining to that before a person be suspended because of that. and there should be fairly substantial proof, not just a members word.... not sure if those rules are in place or not. if they are then perhaps they should be suspended with substantial proof. I thought the figures were interesting and wish I could have saved them to check them out. I understand we have moderators and admin that are trying to do their job but I think you make some very valid points Ukee. thxs for expressing your thoughts as I believe other members feel much the same way. maybe the person that started the thread on halibut quota and the person that may have helped derail it, could have been warned and/or asked to edit or delete there posts so the thread could carry on? censure I believe should always be the last resort, if possible. maybe that's not possible and not sure of the politics between the members in this case, but it's sad that the figures aren't there now to check out or make comment on... it may have made for some interesting and informative reading.

 

[Joe]

I'm glad it was deleted and i agree with the member that you say was involved in a personal rant about the people with multiple accounts.....it is real and troubling.

I am sure you are. Wouldn't want your drunk buddy looking like he always does when he goes on huge rants then edits or deletes his threads when he wakes up. That's 2 separate personal attacks by this guy in the last month. Wonder if he will get in trouble? doubtful

The truth is halibut is a very touchy subject on this forum. Anyone with an opinion or even asks a question for that matter is shunned if it doesn't fit the bill. Its BS really.

And as far as these multiple accts, In this day and age it should BE EASY to kick these people out or make them known or do whatever it is you want with them. I believe the reason this hasn't happened is because it doesn't actually exist. There are lots of people that disagree. My opinion is this is just another ploy, much like the , " if you aren't involved you don't know anything" to deflect responsibility and accountability from the people making the decisions. Why cant we ask questions and expect an answer? why is that such a bad thing?

 

[scott craven]

Why cant we ask questions and expect an answer? why is that such a bad thing?

It's not a bad thing, but the halibut issue is very political.
you know what that usually entails

 

[Derby]

Ask all the questions u want...but the answer given bye the people in the know are usually not what u want to hear..... or believe to be the truth

 

[Aces]

My whole point was if you want to start a thread like this then provide a link with the data....... don't just throw up a bunch of numbers in a caps lock rant.

I personally dont place the same value on the Oct-Dec Halibut fishery that others may and I didn't agree with the dropping back to 83 cms for the 2nd fish I still oppose the retention of the big girls.

Perhaps we would have used more of our quota staying at 90 cm for the 2nd one.

That said I applaud the hard work our Canadian reps do at the Halibut Commission as they represent our interests

 

[Admin]

@Joe you have proven my earlier point about these types of threads as you have managed to turn this into a personal situation/conversation in your first comment. This is exactly the type of commentary that gets threads shut down and members suspended. It is obvious that some of you have a history that spills over onto the forum from time to time. The problem with this is that most people don't have any idea what the personal issues are and don't really care. This generally leads to us having to clean up the mess and we are not really interested in spending the time to do so when the comments are simply stirring the pot or making outrageous accusations about another member.
As to your assertion that in this day and age it should be easy to flush out members with duplicate accounts, the exact opposite is true, as there are many ways to circumvent your true online identity and the use of mobile devices make IP addresses useless for tracking purposes.
I'll say it again, you are welcome to post your questions, comments and opinions as long as it does not include pot stirring, name calling, calling people liars, etc. If you don't like these parameters you don't need to participate.

 

[Joe]

My whole point was if you want to start a thread like this then provide a link with the data....... don't just throw up a bunch of numbers in a caps lock rant.

I personally dont place the same value on the Oct-Dec Halibut fishery that others may and I didn't agree with the dropping back to 83 cms for the 2nd fish I still oppose the retention of the big girls.

Perhaps we would have used more of our quota staying at 90 cm for the 2nd one.

That said I applaud the hard work our Canadian reps do at the Halibut Commission as they represent our interests

Well I didn't see the original post I am pretty sure the actual DFO spreadsheet was posted. Not some random numbers.

And while we agree on most of your other points, I am pretty sure 83cm to 90cms was suggestion. I think it has been proven MANY times now though that small increases and decreases of the second fish don't really matter in the scheme of things because almost non of those fish get caught.

 

[The Jackel]

Dam seems like i missed all the fun

 

[SpringVelocity]

Ask all the questions u want...but the answer given bye the people in the know are usually not what u want to hear..... or believe to be the truth

Exactly.

 

[UkeeDreamin]

I'll third that and point out it goes both ways. Opinions are opinions but facts are facts and some people on here don't want to address the data that exists that informs this issue.

Whether or not people want to question the spreadsheet displayed, it is a fact that there was 177,000 lbs of quota remaining in the rec fishery quota as of Sept 1st and is also a fact that if you use the average harvest rates for the past few years, which had very similar regulations in place and numbers of licenses sold as this year, there is a very high probability that over 100,000 lbs of rec quota will be left at the end of the season. It is also a fact that the cumulative unused rec quota over the past four years will have a very high probability of being in the neighbourhood of 650,000 lbs.

That is the data and I'll be the first to offer the opinion that it is shameful that DFO doesn't ensure recreational fishery data is readily available and widely advertised. Now, based on those data-based facts people can and will form their own opinions on whether this trend of data suggests that the regulations that have been in place for the past few years should be reviewed and reconsidered or that things are fine as they are or any number of other options.

Further facts for people to use in forming their opinions on the matter - the possession fish slot size (i.e. only one fish in possession allowed to be over 83 cm or 90 cm, depending on year) has no data to support any effectiveness in reducing harvest rate or total harvest and in fact there are multiple years of data where this "slot restriction" was the only regulation change (as an experiment we were told) and neither harvest rate or total harvest by the rec sector was reduced - as such multiple years of data strongly suggests a possession slot had no harvest effect (many years of historical data also support this conclusion). The most recent regulations/restrictions - i.e. the introduction of an annual quota and a max size limit have had a dramatic effect on harvest rate and total harvest as supported by the corresponding harvest data. Unfortunately, as neither of these regulations have data in isolation of one another there is no way of knowing if both are having the desired effect or if one of those regs on its own is driving most of the reduction in harvest rate/total harvest. It is very logical to predict that both would be effective - removing harvest of very large fish will immediately reduce the coast-wide and/or regional avg/median fish harvested, which plugs directly into DFO's extrapolation of harvest calculation. Similarly, an annual quota has a high likelihood of reducing total numbers harvested, which again plugs directly into DFO's extrapolation calculation. Reduce avg size or total pieces harvested and it is logical that total biomass harvested will go down.

Hope this assists people in forming their opinions on the subject.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[007]

I find all of this very interesting and enjoy reading informed (statistical) information on the topic and fishers experience year to year, thank you all for the information.

I do have a question and hope it is okay to ask with in this thread?
Why is there only 1 zone of regs. for all of BC?

Thanks.

 

[trophywife]

halibut topic makes me puke in my mouth.

 

[UkeeDreamin]

I find all of this very interesting and enjoy reading informed (statistical) information on the topic and fishers experience year to year, thank you all for the information.

I do have a question and hope it is okay to ask with in this thread?
Why is there only 1 zone of regs. for all of BC?

Thanks.

Good question 007 and a topic I don't understand as DFO manages other ground fish stocks - like rockfish and lingcod by sub-areas and zones so why not with halibut? It would seem to me that with a restrictive rec quota that the rec sector could maximize the benefit to rec fishers by lobbying DFO to manage by Pacific Fishery Management Areas (PFMA).

Interesting enough, catch/harvest data is captured by PFMA groupings, twenty in all, which are further grouped by North Coast, Central Coast and South Coast "Regional Areas". The data is pretty consistent for numbers and total harvest between the Regional Areas and PFMA groupings so our sector could get flexibility by determining how the fishers in those areas would like the quota allocated - is it an area where folks want of fish halibut all year long or is it an area folks would be happy with just one or two larger fish for the season? Multiple years of data by these groupings is available so not a very hard task to consider.

Will be interesting to hear other's knowledge and opinions regarding your question.

BTW - hear's a link to last year's DFO Sport Halibut Catch Report Regional Areas and PFMAs are broken down in Table 5.

http://www.iphc.int/meetings/2016am/bb/13_02_Area2B_2015SportHalibutCatchReport_IPHC.pdf

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[GLG]

Hi 007 .. it was agreed by all the SFAC/SFAB's that we would have one rule for all of BC. Another thing that was agreed to was that we had a full season. These two principles do drive the way we make decisions on what the rules are.

I'm not certain that the final projected amount harvested is what has been mentioned in this thread as I may not have the same data as what Ukee posted. I also don't know what the released mortality that we will need to add to that harvest amount. (Not sure if that will need to be accounted for as I don't know if that was agreed to this year) Regardless ... if you think about it, with the TAC at 1.1 million and 100 thousand left on the TAC at the end of the year that is around 9%. Add in mortality then we are in not that bad a shape. Would I like to see the number around 5%? Sure why not... except that brings us close to going over if for some reason there is more pressure on halibut then we projected at the beginning of the season. One thing I can tell everyone is........ we do not want to go over our TAC...... as this would be a huge tactical mistake.

Perhaps someone that was on the Halibut WG calls could post better info then I have.

 

[terrin]

The ride in was ultra plush and we made it back in no time flat. If I recall it was about an hour and 10 mins. It was really nice to take advantage of this close in fishery. We burned 40 gals of fuel and used 4 litres of oil this trip.
This was recently posted in the Tuna thread and confirms even for tuna fishers you have to keep it real. If a new reg came out stating only two tuna per person daily possession limit I wonder how that would go over. My gripe is I live in the Lower Mainland and to go out to the Halibut Grounds for one fish just doesn't keep it real. My comment is not to drag the tuna fishers into the problem the Lower Mainland rec halibut fishers face but just to give it some perspective. I made one trip out to Renfrew this year for my one halibut and I can tell you I burned a lot more than 40 gallons but not really sure I would do it again next year just not worth it enjoyed the halibut though.