Halibut fishermen divided on how to divvy up the fish

Sushihunter

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http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=e1b5200f-8742-42ca-9b5e-9f5de8f77dc4


Halibut fishermen divided on how to divvy up the fish
Recreational anglers want to change quotas that see commercial section receive 88%
Robert BarronDaily News

Thursday, January 20, 2011


W ith fewer than two weeks to go before B.C.'s halibut season begins, an ongoing debate between commercial and recreational fishermen over how much they can catch this year has reached a crisis point.

At a packed meeting of about 400 people in Nanaimo on Tuesday, recreational halibut anglers were encouraged to write the federal government to change the halibut quotas that see the commercial sector receive 88% of the quota while the recreational anglers get just 12%.

The controversial quotas were established in 2003 by the department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, despite arguments from the recreational halibut sector that they require 20% of the quota to make the industry economically feasible. It makes up a significant part of the province's $650-million sport-fishing sector.

With halibut stocks becoming more depleted over the years, recreational fishermen fear their quota for 2011 could be as low as 430,000 kilograms for approximately 100,000 anglers.

They claim would need a quota of about 725,000 kilograms to round out a full season for the industry this year.

Recreational fishermen also take exception to the fact that the commercial halibut quotas in the province were "gifted free of charge" by the DFO to just 436 commercial fishermen in perpetuity, many of whom now lease their allotted quotas to other fishermen and make thousands of dollars from the industry without having to fish themselves.

Nanaimo-Alberni Conservative MP James Lunney, who attended Tuesday's meeting, said it's clear that the "situation is not tenable" and that he has written to Fisheries Minister Gail Shea, outlining his concerns.

But Bob Carpenter, a commercial halibut fisherman from Nanaimo who has worked in the industry for 50 years, said Canada's halibut fishery is one of the best-run in the world and accused the recreational fishermen of telling "blatant lies" to gain support for their crusade to change the quotas.

"Although nothing has been announced yet, we already know the recreational halibut season will be cut short this year, possibly as early as mid-July, and that would be a disaster for many charter companies, many of which typically plan their excursions up to a year ahead," said Clyde Wicks, an avid recreational angler and chairman of the Mid-Island Sports Fishing Advisory Committee.

"Most in the recreational fishery always believed their interests were being protected by their elected representatives and never thought that they would be stopped from fishing during the most busy time of their year."

In recognizing that there may be flaws in its quota system, the DFO began a roundtable discussion early in 2010 to try to develop acceptable solutions with all stakeholders, but the meetings ended without finding any consensus on how this halibut season should proceed.

Recreational fishermen claim the discussions were derailed when then DFO and the commercial sector became "fixated" on the option of fishing guides and lodges having to acquire a new level of licence and then purchase unused quota from the commercial sector.

Wicks said a better option would be for DFO to hold onto the quotas and "lease them out" at a fair price to recreational fishermen as the stocks warrant, rather than having to buy quota from the commercial sector at exorbitant rates that leave little for profit.

Carpenter said he has invested $1.5 million on boats and equipment over the years and employs 10 people, so he takes exception to claims that the province's commercial halibut fleet "got our business for nothing."

He also said the commercial halibut sector has seen its quota cut by about 47% over the last few years to protect halibut stocks as their numbers decline.

First Nations are also allocated 17% of the total commercial quota.

"The recreational sector wants a wild-west fishery in which they want it all," Carpenter said.

"It's time the government supports DFO at making the recreational sector more accountable and responsible for our valuable resources.

"Future increases in the total allowable catches of halibut will increase for all sectors when the stocks warrant it."

Wicks said more meetings are planned on the Lower Mainland to raise public awareness of the issue in the coming weeks and he believes the momentum for change is growing.

"The very real danger exists that small boats will be venturing out into rough seas early in the season to get a chance of catching a halibut before the season is shut down," Wicks said.

"This is the very reason that the commercial halibut sector was placed on a quota fishery in the first place, so that safety could be assured by not forcing their boats out in rough water."

- - -

HALIBUT NUMBERS

- There are 436 commercial halibut licences in B.C.

- Estimates are that just 137 of these licence holders still actively fish,
with the rest of the licences being leased out each year.

- The commercial halibut industry controls 88% of the halibut quota, while the recreational sector has just 12%.

- The recreational sector want their quota raised to 20% this year.

- About 100,000 recreational anglers take part in the halibut fishery each year.


© The Daily News (Nanaimo) 2011
 
"The recreational sector wants a wild-west fishery in which they want it all," Carpenter said.

B.S. ALL WE WANT IS A FAIR SHARE AND 12% IS LESS THAN FAIR ! :mad:
 
the 100k has been added to the huge amount of misinformation the coalition is using to try and pusuade the public to write letters. DFO estimates that 10% of the effort is directed at haliubt. That would be closer to 40k
 
does the dfo have anyway of backing any of the numbers they spit out. everything is estimations and "best guesses" i did a fair bit hali fishing last season and not once was i asked to record or report anything the plane flew over me once or twice, talk about a waste of resources.

the simplest way to monitor stocks is annual limits recorded on the license, that are actually collected and recorded (say when you go to buy the next season license you MUST return last seasons)then when they give us figures at least there could be some real data to back it.
 
I've been wondering about the 100,000 dedicated sport-fishing halibut fisherman also. So far we've seen 60 in Ucluelet, a few hundred in Courtenay, about 400 in Victoria, about 400 in Nanaimo and what ever in Campbell river. Quite a few folks have been going from one meeting to the next[not sure what %], so we have barely broke 1000 dedicated. Now I realize that there are many folks from other areas of BC and Canada as well as US that use the halibut resource. An estimate of 100,000 dedicated halibut anglers certainly does seem steep.
 
the 100k has been added to the huge amount of misinformation the coalition is using to try and pusuade the public to write letters. DFO estimates that 10% of the effort is directed at haliubt. That would be closer to 40k

.....you should spend more time watching Oprah than wasting your time posting here.....no one is buying your BS anyway.....
 
I've been wondering about the 100,000 dedicated sport-fishing halibut fisherman also. So far we've seen 60 in Ucluelet, a few hundred in Courtenay, about 400 in Victoria, about 400 in Nanaimo and what ever in Campbell river. Quite a few folks have been going from one meeting to the next[not sure what %], so we have barely broke 1000 dedicated. Now I realize that there are many folks from other areas of BC and Canada as well as US that use the halibut resource. An estimate of 100,000 dedicated halibut anglers certainly does seem steep.

Sadly, the number of people who do not get off their duff and take part in the process always outnumbers those who get involved. I know a number of fishers, myself, that did not bother to attend the meeting. So whether the 100k number is high, I don't know but I know it is far far higher than the numbers of those who showed up for the meeting. Wanna bet that if the status quo remains and the season is shortened, those who complain loudest will be those who didn't bother attending, writing letters, etc.
 
does the dfo have anyway of backing any of the numbers they spit out. everything is estimations and "best guesses" i did a fair bit hali fishing last season and not once was i asked to record or report anything the plane flew over me once or twice, talk about a waste of resources.

the simplest way to monitor stocks is annual limits recorded on the license, that are actually collected and recorded (say when you go to buy the next season license you MUST return last seasons)then when they give us figures at least there could be some real data to back it.

DFO has been refusing to do any type of rec license reform for years......they have been asked at the highest levels to give rec anglers a annual limit of approx 10 hali's per angler per year......DFO says no F*#@KING way......same for using the Chinook data.......so if you think you've come up with some new novel idea, then you run it by the BOZO'S at DFO and see how far you get...... this ain't nothin new to the ones who spent the last seven years fighting this F#@!&king stupid 88/12 through the SFAB......the idea of shutting down the whole SFAB was seriously discussed at the Campbell River rally last night......if DFO don't want to take us seriously shut it down.....it got nowhere in 7 years on hali and recently nowhere on anything else to do with this years fishing plan.....the SFAB has run its course and its time to move in the other direction (SPORTS FISHING COALITION)....strength in numbers........F*#@K em......DFO SUCKS
 
Hello Mi Chica,

I'd imagine if there were more meetings throughout BC, that we would see more folks. My point was more directed at figuring out how 100,000 dedicated halibut anglers were enumerated, rather than focusing on peoples priorities, something that is different from one individual to another.

Ding Dong!
 
As far as I could see there the 4-5 Commercial Halibut guys last night were greatly outnumbered by
200+ Recreational Fisherman. FYI it was standing room only, the hall was over capacity. It is pretty easy to tally total liscenses sold, then apply a formula based on averages.
 
Concerning the 100,000 number, and really all the numbers? There might be a problem there, they really don’t add up?

When you see pictures and hear of large halibut caught by sport anglers it is initially easy to believe the sport harvest was 1.098 million pounds. At least I originally did; however, when you start calculating – it just seems NOT to calculate?

If you use a British Columbia average size sport caught halibut of approximately 12 pounds (which is probably close). With a sport harvest of 1.098M it would take 91,500 halibut to reach that total estimated harvest. Do you really believe 100,000 anglers caught 91,500 halibut? That would be a 91.5% catch rate at one fish each – I find that very hard to believe?

Then there were 292,024 licenses issued in 2010. If every licensed individual in British Columbia caught a halibut, it equates to 31.33% of all anglers in British Columbia would have to catch a halibut to reach that 1.098M harvest? Nope, I can’t believe that one, either?

You can change those numbers anyway you wish up or down (I have), but I don’t seem to find any number, in the calculations that really make since to come up with that total harvest estimate of 1.098M pounds for the sport sector? Anyone else, figured that out yet?

BTW, Homer, AK average sport caught halibut size is approximately 25 pounds, and at that size it would still take 43,920 halibut to reach that 1.098M pound harvest. That still equates to some unbelievable catch numbers of 43.92% of that 100,000 and 15% of total licensed anglers? I don’t care how good DFO thinks those guides are, that just ain’t happening! IMHO
 
Charlie: Interesting numbers you have. I'm looking to build a spreadsheet to play with the numbers a bit.

One question: You state " 1.098M pounds" - does the M stand for Thousand, or Million?

OK, two questions...

You state: "If every licensed individual in British Columbia caught a halibut, it equates to 31.33% of all anglers in British Columbia would have to catch a halibut to reach that 1.098M harvest?"


I'm unclear on the meaning of that statement. My read: "If every licensed individual in British Columbia caught a halibut..." then 100% of all anglers caught a Halibut. How do you get the 31.33% figure?


Knowing your attention to detail, I'm sure it makes sense, but I'm just not seeing it. :confused:

Thanks!
 
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Concerning the 100,000 number, and really all the numbers? There might be a problem there, they really don’t add up?

When you see pictures and hear of large halibut caught by sport anglers it is initially easy to believe the sport harvest was 1.098 million pounds. At least I originally did; however, when you start calculating – it just seems NOT to calculate?


If you use a British Columbia average size sport caught halibut of approximately 12 pounds (which is probably close). With a sport harvest of 1.098M it would take 91,500 halibut to reach that total estimated harvest. Do you really believe 100,000 anglers caught 91,500 halibut? That would be a 91.5% catch rate at one fish each – I find that very hard to believe?

Then there were 292,024 licenses issued in 2010. If every licensed individual in British Columbia caught a halibut, it equates to 31.33% of all anglers in British Columbia would have to catch a halibut to reach that 1.098M harvest? Nope, I can’t believe that one, either?

You can change those numbers anyway you wish up or down (I have), but I don’t seem to find any number, in the calculations that really make since to come up with that total harvest estimate of 1.098M pounds for the sport sector? Anyone else, figured that out yet?

BTW, Homer, AK average sport caught halibut size is approximately 25 pounds, and at that size it would still take 43,920 halibut to reach that 1.098M pound harvest. That still equates to some unbelievable catch numbers of 43.92% of that 100,000 and 15% of total licensed anglers? I don’t care how good DFO thinks those guides are, that just ain’t happening! IMHO

Some very interesting points there Charlie. Thanks for bringing this forward for discussion. I know of a few anglers that catch Halibut fairly well with a Rod and Reel, but...........?
 
Hi Charlie,

I agree!

Is the poundage ratio that you are using a grand total, including leased and finished overage? Do you happen to know what month the sport sector bought all of the quota in 2010? How was it determined so early in 2010 that the sport sector would in fact be over their TAC before they actually needed to lease? Who initiated the buy? Who holds the trust for monies that were released to purchase quota, and who has authorization to spend or request that quota be bought? How did the sport sector go over their TAC when many have said that the overall effort decreased steadily over the past two seasons?

I too am very curious to know what is really going on??

Ding Dong!
 
It is million pounds, Jim.

It appears, what DFO is doing is taking the “large” numbers from the charters, remote lodges, and creel surveys, during the prime halibut season. Then exploiting those numbers to establish the entire British Columbia sport halibut harvest! They don’t seem to be taking into consideration the “average” size halibut caught throughout the year (which I do believe is approximately 12 pounds or less), and/or multiplying the average size with the actual number of anglers over entire season? That seems to be a large flaw in their harvest numbers? I do believe Canada is/has actually been leaving “sport” quota!
 
Hi Charlie,

I agree!

Is the poundage ratio that you are using a grand total, including leased and finished overage? Do you happen to know what month the sport sector bought all of the quota in 2010? How was it determined so early in 2010 that the sport sector would in fact be over their TAC before they actually needed to lease? Who initiated the buy? Who holds the trust for monies that were released to purchase quota, and who has authorization to spend or request that quota be bought? How did the sport sector go over their TAC when many have said that the overall effort decreased steadily over the past two seasons?

I too am very curious to know what is really going on??

Ding Dong!

If you don't already know those answers - all that information is listed on the DFO website! :)
 
It is million pounds, Jim.

It appears, what DFO is doing is taking the “large” numbers from the charters, remote lodges, and creel surveys, during the prime halibut season. Then exploiting those numbers to establish the entire British Columbia sport halibut harvest! They don’t seem to be taking into consideration the “average” size halibut caught throughout the year (which I do believe is approximately 12 pounds or less), and/or multiplying the average size with the actual number of anglers over entire season? That seems to be a large flaw in their harvest numbers? I do believe Canada is/has actually been leaving “sport” quota!


12lb Halibut seems mighty small Charlie, although that seems to be about right
for Swiftsure bank.
i would say the average down the south end of Vanc island would be closer to 30lbs.
 
It is million pounds, Jim.

It appears, what DFO is doing is taking the “large” numbers from the charters, remote lodges, and creel surveys, during the prime halibut season. Then exploiting those numbers to establish the entire British Columbia sport halibut harvest! They don’t seem to be taking into consideration the “average” size halibut caught throughout the year (which I do believe is approximately 12 pounds or less), and/or multiplying the average size with the actual number of anglers over entire season? That seems to be a large flaw in their harvest numbers? I do believe Canada is/has actually been leaving “sport” quota!

Thanks Charlie!

I figured that it was million, but M is the Roman numeral for Thousand, so I thought I'd better clarify.

I think you may have found the key with this post. If they are using log books from guides and lodges, that would skew the number of fish caught to the high side.

Another point to consider - Lodges are mostly situated in areas that have high numbers of fish, such as the QCI and Langara Island where there are plenty of Halibut to be caught. They don't locate in Howe Sound where a caught Halibut makes the evening TV news because it is a rarity.

Perhaps the best and cheapest solution to the numbers game is to add a new spot to the license to record Halibut caught with a measured size. Require reporting thoughout the season.
 
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