Gun Control in US and Canada

[Saxe Point]

Whats troubling, is there was a person out there, crazy enough to kill HIS Mother, and 20 kids that are less then 7 year olds, and the only way you can make sense of it, is blaming the weapon used in the event.BY removing guns from the equation or putting in tougher gun laws, you are only making it harder( or impossible) for law abiding citizens to have a gun and protect themselves. And im not ok with that. I have a right to protect myself and my family. Crimals will always have guns.

And lastly, its not fair to compare just the firearm laws in both countries. There is alot more involved. Economy, poverty, gangs, crime rates just to name a few are all parts of the equation.

Lorne, it's completely wrong to assert "the only way you can make sense of it is blaming the weapon used." My points are made in relation to the larger issue relating to gun control and gun violence. "Blaming the weapon" you say?? What, as if it went off by itself? What kind of world do you live in? No one suggests any perpetrator is not to blame for their actions (putting aside for the moment the difficult issue of criminal responsibility and mental disorders). But for you to suggest that gun control is of no relevance to gun violence is baffling. Are you saying because it is all about individual responsibility, society should not regulate the ownership, use and possession of firearms at all? It seems to me that this is what your argument boils down to. You say no restrictions are required because irresponsible use is all about individual choices, which can be addressed through criminal sanctions. To that I say thank goodness there isn't a developed country in the world that espouses that philosophy. The question is always where the line is to drawn, not whether there should be a line. You might be the most responsible gun owner in Canada, but I still think most Canadians will agree that even you should not own, possess or use a fully automatic 50 caliber machine gun, whether it be for the sheer pleasure of owning one, or to use to protect your family from invading criminals.

You also contradict yourself. You sensibly acknowledge the multiple factors underpinning social dysfunction (your last sentence), but refuse to accept that firearm access might be another relevant factor, as the evidence clearly suggests it is.

 

[Lipripper]

Here's another angle on the incidence of gun violence between Canada & the US.

While most societies have a given prevalence of mental illness amongst a population that will sooner or later spawn an event of horrific violence, there are 10-times more Yanks than there are of us... so it's 10-times more likely to happen south of the border. Not sure it equates to Yanks being crazier or more violent than us.

Simple math. No?

^ Something to look at here....

Another thing to consider is Switzerland's gun laws.... And look at their crime rates.

I am going off the top of my head here but at least 20% of the population have semi ​assault rifles in their house.. Government issued..

 

[Tsquared]

Not sure if any of you saw what Morgan Freeman said about it today...but he hit the nail on the head, its not about gun control, look at the bigger picture. Here is what he said...

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

"It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."
x2, SG. I always vote with my remote--soon as they get the widow on the set--I'm gone to another channel. On the
shooting in CT I read enough to get the gist of it to see if I can learn anything to help me with my work(i'm an
elementary school principal) and then I'm gone.
T2

 

[Gunsmith]

Blah blah blah blah, anything changed yet? Nope! Blah blah blah blah!

 

[Deewar25]

gun control??? I am betting the bigger issue is lack of parenting and sensationalism of violence/blood in media/tv/video games.

But, that said, you do have to ask, what IF the mother had no weapons? The shooter got denied his attempt to purchase his own. What IF the mother had a brain and didn't take her disturbed son to target practice to fine tune his killing abilities? What IF the parents never divorced? What IF hollywood did not make violent shows and movies common place - drama like Criminal Minds that could actually put many creepy ideas in disturbs kids heads? What IF the parents actually monitored the kids habits, and never allowed their asberger (that has been identified so far but regardless what BS the media spews, that wouldn't be the root of the problem) son the ability to be an obsessed gamer? What IF the parents actually put the 'family' and their kids first and never divorced no matter how hard it was to make a relationship work? What IF the parents actually gave the son the psychological help he needed? Its not like they didn't have money to shell out for the programs he needed and everyone has commented that he had serious social issues growing up, so not like it could have been 'a surprise'!

There are so many scenarios out there and I bet the root of the problem starts with family and parenting and then goes from there.

 

[reelfast]

seems as though everyone knows what the problem is! unfortunately, we need a beginning point, a start at the task at hand of reducing gun violence. with an estimated 47% of US households in possesion of one or more firearms, this becomes a real dilema for all of us. starting with background checks, even at gun shows, forcing a waiting period are 2 things that can pretty easily be accomplished, well maybe. the social issues of mental health care are far more complex to get your arms around, but in need of serious thought. 'stand your ground' rules in some states have led to the killing of youth apparently for no reason so the arguement of defense of self is for the most part is bogus.

and when the NRA starts its blather, remember: guns don't kill people, people with guns do.

 

[Deewar25]

and an additional commentary to 'consider' here having looked a little more around the world - after a mass shooting in England 1996, they banned all but single shot weapons - since then, 16 years, no school shootings. Since Columbine, 31 school shootings in US, compared to 14 WORLD wide. Problem, what problem? The whole 'it wouldn't have happened if we all had weapons to protect us' is totally debunked right there IMH as everywhere else in the world seems to manage just fine with tougher regulations.

As you say thou reelfast, you need a beginning point. Not like you can just get 200 million guns handed over, but something definitely needs to break there. Now you have a wingnut in Cali firing 50 shots in the air like he is in Iraq...just getting stupid now.

 

[cpony]

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nb...in-argument-between-bulls-192117187--nba.html

 

[profisher]

Hey Lip, I'm assuming that the 20% who have gov issued assault rifles in Switz were those who had either mandatory or voluntary military service. There is your pre-ownership screening process. Not to say I agree with those types of guns being in the public hands.

 

[Rum Buddies]

Hey Lip, I'm assuming that the 20% who have gov issued assault rifles in Switz were those who had either mandatory or voluntary military service. There is your pre-ownership screening process. Not to say I agree with those types of guns being in the public hands.

Why Switzerland Is A Red-Herring In The Gun Control Debate

"Switzerland has a very small standing army, and citizens are expected to act as militiamen should the country be invaded. Every 18-30 years old Swiss male between has to do three months' military training, and many more regular refresher courses. The majority of guns are army-issued

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/switzerlands-gun-laws-are-a-red-herring-2012-12#ixzz2FEtslwys
"

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/switzerlands-gun-laws-are-a-red-herring-2012-12#ixzz2FEthMt9h

 

[lorneparker1]

Why Switzerland Is A Red-Herring In The Gun Control Debate

"Switzerland has a very small standing army, and citizens are expected to act as militiamen should the country be invaded. Every 18-30 years old Swiss male between has to do three months' military training, and many more regular refresher courses. The majority of guns are army-issued

Read more: http://www.busines For example, th...-laws-are-a-red-herring-2012-12#ixzz2FEtslwys
"

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/switzerlands-gun-laws-are-a-red-herring-2012-12#ixzz2FEthMt9h

Why didnt you post the last sentence?

army, and citizens are expected to act as militiamen should the country be invaded. Every 18-30 years old Swiss male between has to do three months' military training, and many more regular refresher courses. The majority of guns are army-issued, though rules on private gun ownership are very lax compared to other European countries.

 

[profisher]

It still sounds like 80% of the population don't own guns. Where as in the US 80% are armed.

 

[Rum Buddies]

Why didnt you post the last sentence?

army, and citizens are expected to act as militiamen should the country be invaded. Every 18-30 years old Swiss male between has to do three months' military training, and many more regular refresher courses. The majority of guns are army-issued, though rules on private gun ownership are very lax compared to other European countries.

Why don't you contribute something intelligent? You've already posted that you agree with tighter gun control in the USA, which is what the debate is about. Nobody is calling for a ban on guns like you'd like to scream and shout about. Its very clear your sole objective is to argue and that you do not possess the necessary equipment to engage in rational debate. Maybe its time to leave the discussion to the adults, nobody is interested in your point of view.

 

[hooktender68]

That was good to forward what Morgan Freeman said there Serengeti. That is bang on! the media is so twisted and mangled. It focusses on negativity and cynisism, sad but true, that that is what sells in society. Its all about what is wrong in the world. I tell you, If we start hanging ropes around these mother f&%$#rs and string them up downtown for all to see. Murderers, Rapists, childmolesters, shoot them, permanently remove them from society. Dont even give it a second thought. Dont put them away to tryto rehabilatate them! what the hell for? Pay for your sht...As for gun control, that is a slippery slope. My personal opion is that a gun is a usefull tool that I think I have a right to own. The trouble is, how do you keep them away from the twisted morons of the world? What about the seemingly normal guy who just snaps one day? How do you test someone to see if they posess the very basic right and wrong morals to keep people from snapping? Who knows? I am currently teaching my 2 daughters how to safely and efficently operate guns. Wether or not later in life the choose to own them or hunt with them thats up to them, but I am happy to know that if they ever have to use one for whatever reason they can safely pick one up and know what to do with it. I think it falls right in line with knowing how to make a fire and how to catch a fish.

 

[lorneparker1]

Why don't you contribute something intelligent? You've already posted that you agree with tighter gun control in the USA, which is what the debate is about. Nobody is calling for a ban on guns like you'd like to scream and shout about. Its very clear your sole objective is to argue and that you do not possess the necessary equipment to engage in rational debate. Maybe its time to leave the discussion to the adults, nobody is interested in your point of view.

Are you butt hurt? Why don't you argue with the 4 members of your own board? My goals is open peoples eyes and see things through a different point of view. There are people on this thread calling for a complete ban, and were people saying tougher gun control would have prevented this, both which are false statements. And for you to leave out such an important sentence in that paragraph becuase it didn't fit your agenda is pretty funny. Get a life

 

[Kildonan]

My goals is open peoples eyes and see things through a different point of view. There are people on this thread calling for a complete ban, and were people saying tougher gun control would have prevented this, both which are false statements.

In your opinion bud!! We all get your point of view and you're entitled to that just like everyone else here. People who oppose your view are not wrong, it's how they think and in their reality they're right. You need to accept that.

You're stuck on repeat and lighting your hair on fire when anybody disagrees with your view.

 

[lorneparker1]

In your opinion bud!! We all get your point of view and you're entitled to that just like everyone else here. People who oppose your view are not wrong, it's how they think and in their reality they're right. You need to accept that.

You're stuck on repeat and lighting your hair on fire when anybody disagrees with your view.

You're right. I'm done with this thread.

Lorne

 

[baddogg]

I personally don't want to comment on this thread in regards to the gun control aspect. Twelve pages later and it's very much the same as page one.

It's kind of like a thread on politics or religion. So many sides, and not enough acceptance of other peoples opinions as just that, opinions.

I would be interested however in knowing who owns a gun/guns, and their purpose for owning same.

I know it is kind of an invasion of privacy, but one doesn't necessarily need to post.

I for one used to own a .308 and a 12 gauge. I quit hunting and gave them away to a buddy of mine who does hunt.

As a retired cop, I carried a gun every day to work for 32 years. I did a ton of practice shooting during that time and quite frankly I tired of it. I don't own a firearm of any sort.

In May 2010 myself and a buddy were first on scene for a daytime shootout in Nanaimo where one was killed and two injured.

The guy charged lost a chunk of his femur and was prohibited firearms at the time of the incident.

Despite being illegal to carry, concealed handguns in Canada are much more prevalent than one might think.

Link attached, watch the video portion for mostly accurate details.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/05/26/bc-nanaimo-shooting.html

 

[IronNoggin]

... I would be interested however in knowing who owns a gun/guns, and their purpose for owning same.

I'll Bite...

I currently own nearly 20 long guns. A couple are "Collectors" and but rarely fired.
The balance are my Tools Of The Trade - I am a Hunter, and have been a Big Game Guide for well over 30 years. Haven't guided in the past couple of years due to other time constraints, but will be back at it again next fall and for the foreseeable future.
These include a rather wide variety of calibers and gauges. Each has it's place and time when they Shine.
Could I function with less of them? Likely, but thankfully I do not have too!

I also own five handguns. From 22's through raced up 45 autos up to a sweet Cowboy Gun - my Ruger 45 Long Colt.
The 45's I used a LOT in IPSC Competition. Although I am not as active as I once was in this sport, I still get out to keep the rough edges off from time to time. The 22's are Range Plinkers, Fun and inexpensive to shoot. The Big 45... Just Cause. LOL! It is also a LOT of FUN to shoot, albeit getting pricey to do so these days. Why the handguns? It's my "Sport". Some folks golf, others water-ski. I Shoot.

Not at all worried about the "invasion of privacy" thing. Most folks that know me understand I Like Guns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZk0RdzDrVs

And, I ain't worried whatsoever that some Idjut might read this and make the foolhardy decision to try and steal them.

First, you gotta get by these:

Then, you have to find the well hidden Safe. Triple Alarmed, with 12 lag bolts securing it, fire and bomb proof, you're going to be there a very long time trying to gain entry

And Lord Help You if I happen across the scene!

I grew up in an Outdoor Family. Hunting & Fishing has always been my way of Life, and firearms have always been a big part of that. In over 40 years of Legal Ownership, I have seen the various Rules & Regulations change considerably. And yes, I jump through the hoops as required. Always have, Always will. Was into "safe storage" LONG before it became mandatory, but still fondly recall when every farm house in our area had a shotgun or rifle standing by the door ready for near immediate use. Miss those easy-going days, but of course we didn't even bother to lock our doors back then... Times change.

My position on Firearm Control is rather well known. I do believe with the background checks, Licensing System and all the Legislation that goes with them, we have enough control of the Legal Owners in Canada. The criminals are an entirely different matter! And in that regard, I very much wish our Courts would take a MUCH Stronger stance when it comes to firearm violations!

As for the US, they have a Serious Problem on their hands! One I do hope they can wrap their collective minds around addressing in the not-too-distant future.

BadDawg - I do not relish the tasks you had to face in your employ in Enforcement. But that said, I am Damn Happy Men like you were and are Ready, Willing and Able to do What Has To Be Done!

Cheers,
Nog

 

[SerengetiGuide]

I've been on the gun control isn't going to do much side the whole time, and still am. Media is big reason why, mental health issues are huge as well. But I still think its pretty insane that citizens can own assault rifles that fire off 50 rounds...whats the point of that? My opinion is nothing that can fire off more than 8-10, plus no need for citizen assault rifle ownership, handguns yes, shotguns, rifles etc yes obviously. But the large clip weapons are unnecessary, can defend oneself with a handgun just as well as a semi automatic in my opinion.

With that being said, it really pisses me off all the facebook postings i see that "guns should be banned" and "complete gun control in the us needs to happen" That's jiberish and is done by the same people that I always see posting NDP, Global Warming is going to destroy the world as we know it, and left wing rhetoric...of course, I can't help myself but comment on them and stir the pot...or at least show them how they are wrong...