disco
Well-Known Member
Ya but he told them they aren't allowed to reference the tax component of the price of gas.
Gas prices up again
- Thread starter scott craven
- Start date
Ya but he told them they aren't allowed to reference the tax component of the price of gas.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Perhaps there is no competition in metro van because it makes more sense to sell your property then have a gas station.
Four more Metro Vancouver gas stations hit the bidding block
https://www.vancourier.com/real-est...gas-stations-hit-the-bidding-block-1.23313158
Four more Metro Vancouver gas stations hit the bidding block
https://www.vancourier.com/real-est...gas-stations-hit-the-bidding-block-1.23313158
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Why Vancouver is still getting utterly hosed on gas prices
https://theprovince.com/news/canada...ices/wcm/b96d2a07-ca54-431e-9757-be1104e13c02
Vancouver’s gap between oil prices and gas prices is extraordinary — and it keeps getting worse
There’s something in the oil industry called “refinery margin.” It’s a measure of the price difference between what a refinery sells and what it paid for raw materials. So, if a refinery buys $10 of oil and turns it into $12 of diesel, it has a refinery margin of 20 per cent. A recent report from Vancouver’s Navius Research contained a staggering factoid: Since 2008, the Vancouver-area refinery margin had exploded from 13 to 35 per cent. In the rest of the country, meanwhile, margins were less than 18 per cent. The Navius report speculates that this is due to a lack of competition: With only a handful of fuel providers in the region, they’re able to tacitly allow prices to artificially rise. “I’ve seen no evidence that this has anything to do with a lack of competition at the refinery level,” said Jason Parent, a vice president with Kent Group, the petroleum analytics firm that provided the Navius data on refinery margin. Parent cautioned against the assumption that a high refining margin automatically means higher profits. All manner of costs, from transportation expenses to regulatory compliance, can swell a refinery margin. Jennifer Winter, an energy economist at the University of Calgary, was also skeptical that Vancouver’s prices could be attributed to malice. “A large refining margin is usually a function of transportation constraints rather than a deliberate exercise of market power,” she said, adding that plenty of Canadian cities rely on small numbers of fuel providers without their refinery margins skyrocketing.
There’s also only one pipeline (and it’s full)
Up to 60 per cent of the fossil fuels burned in Vancouver start life in an Edmonton refinery. From there, they’re loaded into the Trans Mountain pipeline and shipped west. But the pipeline can’t fully meet the needs of an expanding Lower Mainland and it’s already full. The result is that Vancouver is increasingly dependent on Washington State to meet its fuel needs. Taken together, the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island “is the only region in Canada that is reliant on outside sources for a good chunk of its fuel needs,” said Dan McTeague, senior petroleum analyst at GasBuddy.com. He estimates that as much as 25 per cent of the Vancouver fuel market is supplied by the Americans. So let’s review: The one pipeline is full, the only refinery is maxxed out and thousands of Vancouver cars and busses are kept on the road exclusively by whatever fuel can be imported by truck or barge. As Canada’s northern territories will happily tell you, trucks and barges can be a particularly expensive way to move gas.
https://theprovince.com/news/canada...ices/wcm/b96d2a07-ca54-431e-9757-be1104e13c02
Vancouver’s gap between oil prices and gas prices is extraordinary — and it keeps getting worse
There’s something in the oil industry called “refinery margin.” It’s a measure of the price difference between what a refinery sells and what it paid for raw materials. So, if a refinery buys $10 of oil and turns it into $12 of diesel, it has a refinery margin of 20 per cent. A recent report from Vancouver’s Navius Research contained a staggering factoid: Since 2008, the Vancouver-area refinery margin had exploded from 13 to 35 per cent. In the rest of the country, meanwhile, margins were less than 18 per cent. The Navius report speculates that this is due to a lack of competition: With only a handful of fuel providers in the region, they’re able to tacitly allow prices to artificially rise. “I’ve seen no evidence that this has anything to do with a lack of competition at the refinery level,” said Jason Parent, a vice president with Kent Group, the petroleum analytics firm that provided the Navius data on refinery margin. Parent cautioned against the assumption that a high refining margin automatically means higher profits. All manner of costs, from transportation expenses to regulatory compliance, can swell a refinery margin. Jennifer Winter, an energy economist at the University of Calgary, was also skeptical that Vancouver’s prices could be attributed to malice. “A large refining margin is usually a function of transportation constraints rather than a deliberate exercise of market power,” she said, adding that plenty of Canadian cities rely on small numbers of fuel providers without their refinery margins skyrocketing.
There’s also only one pipeline (and it’s full)
Up to 60 per cent of the fossil fuels burned in Vancouver start life in an Edmonton refinery. From there, they’re loaded into the Trans Mountain pipeline and shipped west. But the pipeline can’t fully meet the needs of an expanding Lower Mainland and it’s already full. The result is that Vancouver is increasingly dependent on Washington State to meet its fuel needs. Taken together, the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island “is the only region in Canada that is reliant on outside sources for a good chunk of its fuel needs,” said Dan McTeague, senior petroleum analyst at GasBuddy.com. He estimates that as much as 25 per cent of the Vancouver fuel market is supplied by the Americans. So let’s review: The one pipeline is full, the only refinery is maxxed out and thousands of Vancouver cars and busses are kept on the road exclusively by whatever fuel can be imported by truck or barge. As Canada’s northern territories will happily tell you, trucks and barges can be a particularly expensive way to move gas.
All these wild explanations have always been happening, previous Gov, same rules, and price was "normal" for lower mainland and Vic for whole terms. Yes 2-3 c increase before long weekends. Then Horgan stole premiers job and lawyered up on TM. Almost immediately gas prices increased to "highest in NA" and Canada. Come on its just a coincidence?????? Just be real, its the Horgan tax. Again lucky I was not the oil/Alberta leaders. Would be $6 ltr if lower BC could find any.
HM
HM
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, I think you may be right on this. So I guess as far as the oil industry is concerned it is to hell with the practice of a free market economy that our capitalistic economy is built upon? So do we live in a time and country where if citizens upset corporations, the corporations will unilaterally and illegally fix prices and decide how much to charge people based upon whether they support them, or not?
If this is the case then I call it total BULLSH!T! Looks like another attempt to corrupt our democracy and liberty for the benefit of the rich and powerful at the expense of regular citizens. We as citizens should not stand for it, or it will just spread and get worse!
If this is the case then I call it total BULLSH!T! Looks like another attempt to corrupt our democracy and liberty for the benefit of the rich and powerful at the expense of regular citizens. We as citizens should not stand for it, or it will just spread and get worse!
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littlechucky
Crew Member
I am told that the lower mainland is “Structurally Short” 150,000 per day of product, this creates the need to import via truck, barge, ship, etc. a large amount of product.
Simple economics dictate that the marginal cost sets the price.
No price fix going on.
Just insufficient low cost infrastructure.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
The petroleum companies are benefiting from a thing called a "wide moat". Lots of industries have it. If you think there is room in the marke build a gas station, bring in fuel and sell it.
This does not exist in canada and never has.
ask the Dairy industry
This does not exist in canada and never has.
ask the Dairy industry
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
It does in some sectors, but not all like you state. The bottom line IMO is we as citizens need to decide how much WE are in charge or how much the corporations are - because our quality of life and our future will depend upon it.
disco
Well-Known Member
You are in charge. Stop voting for leftist wingnuts and gas prices would look more like AB's. This ain't rocket science.
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
How do you know what and how I or anyone else for that matter votes for on this forum? You don't and it is not relevant to my posts on this topic. I suggest that personal comments like this be avoided as they just start fights on this forum. Know the forum rules for posting - this ain't rocket science.
Sotally Tober
Well-Known Member
Ouch!This morning in Port Coquitlam, diesel was $1.45.9
Sure glad this is the cheaper winter blend gas
Sotally Tober
Well-Known Member
Good luck with that...car salespeople are interesting but that’s another topic.
I’ve heard there are still government rebates for people who buy EV cars, that may change depending on who gets elected next.
From a car that still has a clutch to an EV, that will be a big change.
Captain PartyMarty
Crew Member
Make sure you calculate the ROI on the EV, unless you drive a lot its often not in your favor!
Corey_lax
Crew Member
Haha it’s a 2012 Kia Soul. Not a huge change. Might even look at the EV version of the Kia Soul because it fits nice in the garage with my motorcycle.
We’re youngish and business is good so we don’t mind some monthly payments right now. If she’s gonna spend $40k on a car, it might as well be an EV
Corey_lax
Crew Member
She’s driving Port Coquitlam to Vancouver Monday to Friday during rush hour both ways. Free charging at work in Vancouver. Plus HOV is allowed in an EV. So return of happiness is very high with an EV
Captain PartyMarty
Crew Member
I drive Burnaby to Langley and can't make numbers work
New Leaf Base Model-> 42K
New Civic Base Model -> 22K
Difference -> 20K to spend on fuel
Average Cost of my Commute 2800/year
Return on My investment of the Leaf takes 7.14 Years
Leaf batteries need to be replace every 7-8 years at who knows what price...
I would also get free charging at work so I don't even take that into account
Yes you might get some money back in the form of a grant but that doesn't even cover the battery replacement cost
The HOV lane thing is a farce. The HOV lane is already packed with cars and is very rarely faster during rush hour
Like I said be careful jumping on the EV band wagon don't do it to save money as it doesn't pay, but if it feels good to pretend your helping the environment then by all means. But remember where that battery came from and what is going to happen to it when you no longer want it....
I am all from EV's and would buy one if they brought the price down another 20K....
Rant over...
New Leaf Base Model-> 42K
New Civic Base Model -> 22K
Difference -> 20K to spend on fuel
Average Cost of my Commute 2800/year
Return on My investment of the Leaf takes 7.14 Years
Leaf batteries need to be replace every 7-8 years at who knows what price...
I would also get free charging at work so I don't even take that into account
Yes you might get some money back in the form of a grant but that doesn't even cover the battery replacement cost
The HOV lane thing is a farce. The HOV lane is already packed with cars and is very rarely faster during rush hour
Like I said be careful jumping on the EV band wagon don't do it to save money as it doesn't pay, but if it feels good to pretend your helping the environment then by all means. But remember where that battery came from and what is going to happen to it when you no longer want it....
I am all from EV's and would buy one if they brought the price down another 20K....
Rant over...
Corey_lax
Crew Member
Thank you for that ammo to hit the wife with. I’ll spend my weekend installing a new fuel pump and plan for a clutch soon
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