Fish Farms

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fogged in

fogged in

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I think it's time we started a new thread on the subject to reflect the new news.
"Thousands of 10-pound Atlantic salmon, catch as many as you want!" is old news.
My guess is there will be lots of news in the next few months both pro and con.
Have included these recent posts, just to bring a little continuity.
Do hope Admin is ok with it and lets keep it on track with no personal attacks.


  1. http://kuow.org/post/canadian-firm-vows-use-nafta-keep-farming-atlantic-salmon-puget-sound

  3. cuttlefish, Yesterday at 6:50 AM Report
  4. rockdogWell-Known Member
  5. Oh man, this company is completely embarrassing itself. There are only a few people that feel they actually belong, and that's the owner and the employees. I bet even most of the employees know they shouldn't be in the water.
    I do find it odd how quiet the +FF side has been. My guess is they got the call from head office and were told to back down and let the dust settle a bit.
    rockdog, Yesterday at 9:20 AM Report

  6. fogged inWell-Known Member
    ↑ http://kuow.org/post/canadian-firm-vows-use-nafta-keep-farming-atlantic-salmon-puget-sound
    Click to expand...
    "They're taking that investment away unjustly, and that deserves compensation, and there's a very real possibility that could be arbitrated under NAFTA," Richardson said. "

    Lets say Cook take their case to NAFTA.
    The argument from the State of Washington will be based around the fact Open Pen Atlantic Salmon Farms present a real danger to their Wild Salmon.
    They will probably make a case that not only has there been a dismal record of not allowing escapes but will bring forward all the evidence of disease.
    That would go along way to opening the door for our pansy Government officials to move in the same direction.
    Maybe just a pipe dream on my part, but what do you think guys of that scenario?

    fogged in, Yesterday at 3:27 PM Edit Delete Report

  7. fogged inWell-Known Member
    ↑ It's not about me, it's about Cooke's threat to take Washington State to a NAFTA ruling it they do not renew their license?
    Or if our Fish Farms would take BC to task with our trading agreements if B.C. do not renew Fish Farm licenses?
    What do you think?
    Does Cooke have a case in the USA and what happens if Canada take the same approach?
    fogged in, Yesterday at 5:05 PM Edit Delete Report

  8. fogged inWell-Known Member

    In todays Times Colonist and will no doubt be in most major newspapers across Canada....

    Washington urges B.C. to phase out open-net fish farms
    Amy Smart / The Canadian Press
    February 20, 2018 08:23 PM
    So the question remains, will Cooke follow thru with their threat to appeal to NAFTA, if so what will be the defense from Washington State and what will all this mean for B.C.???

    "The Washington state senate and house of representatives have recently passed bills that would phase out net-pen farms when their leases come up for renewal over the next seven years.
    Each bill passed with about a two-thirds majority."
    http://www.timescolonist.com/busine...c-to-phase-out-open-net-fish-farms-1.23180295
    fogged in, Today at 6:21 AM Edit Delete Report

 
more false news....you be the judge, but the world seems to be in general agreement....Open Pen Fish Farms need to be taken OUT of our oceans.

Farmed Salmon Healthy and Nutritious? - No, We Don't Agree
Fish farms like to claim the opposite of what most of us call truth - but let's just call it spin - on a whole range of subjects, for instance that farmed salmon is a healthy, nutritious food. That being the case, it is worthwhile, from time to time, to remind yourself that eating a farmed salmon is eating one of the most chemical filled foods on earth, despite what fish farms say.
Here is that graph from the EU I have put up before, on the chemicals in a range of our meat products. You will note that farmed salmon has 10 times the cancer-causing, and other, chemicals, including more fat than pizza, than chickens, eggs, pigs, cows and other common meats. Yes, dioxins cause cancer.


So, healthy, nutritious, safe? No, I don't think so. When the negative contents of farmed fish are staring you in the face, all you can do is, shake your head and lose respect for companies like Marine Harvest, Cermaq, Grieg Seafood and Cooke Aquaculture, who are saying the opposite of the truth.

Now, here is another image that will keep you reading the chemicals in farmed fish for awhile. There are lots of things, like flame retardants. Take a good look, and when someone tells you they might buy some farmed fish, make sure to tell them they are buying a meat filled with cancer-causing and other chemicals and implore them to buy a safer, nutritious, healthy food, in fact, anything other than farmed salmon.

Take a good look. It is going to take you a while to read all the chemicals. Good reason to not buy farmed salmon.


BC Salmon Farmers Association - Even More 'Spin'?
Jeremy Dunn (who has moved on) speaking for the BC Salmon Farmers Association, said in iPolitics and the Times Colonist this week, commenting on how BC's fish farms are so much better than the Cooke farms in WA:
" ...let’s not forget that salmon farming in B.C. is worth more than a billion and a half dollars to our economy. It’s a well-managed business that supports 6,600 jobs and has done so for many years and has a great future here supported by world-leading science.”
Well, let's just go through this, Slim, cause those figures look mighty high to me:
*Salmon farms worth more than$1.5B?Sorry fish farms, but the BC Stats Report says it is only $469 Million and that is for all of aquaculture. Fish farms are 90%, or$422M, so, the fish farm estimate is 355.5% higher than the BC government. Sorry.
* Salmon farms support6,600 jobs?Sorry, fish farms, but the BC Stats Report says it is only1,700multiplier jobs and that is for all of aquaculture. Fish farms are 90% or1530, so, the fish farm estimate is390%higher than the BC government. Sorry.
*Actual employment is820jobs or 12% of what fish farms say. So when fish farms give you an estimate of jobs, divide it by 10 to get to a much closer number.
And you might be very surprised to find that BC fish farms are tiny, despite what Slim suggests.

*The GDP of the entire aquaculture industry is a measly$61.9M,the BC Stats Report says. And fish farms are only 90% of this tiny figure or$55.7M.The rest of the sector - sport, commercial, processing - is$612M. That means the rest of the salmon sector is1100%higher GDP effect than fish farms, so says the BC government. Sorry.
So, the take away here is don't believe what fish farms tell you. It's all spin, which is a polite word for 'balderdash' which is polite for BS.
And since the problem with Cooke is escapes in WA, what about escapes in BC? Well, here are some BC numbers:
1.5 million escape, 1987 to 2008, says the BC Min of Agriculture and Lands: http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/s.../environmental-impacts/escapes-alien-species/. Yes, that's 1.5 milion
40,000 escape:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/40-000-salmon-escape-b-c-farm-1.828920(2009)
30,000 in 2011... and Chile lost 12 Million in 2007 to an earthquake. Hmm, isn't BC in a hot earthquake zone? Shouldn't fish farms be on land?
And, by golly, there is more. Look at this:http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/files/fish-escapes-chart_14767.pdf. It notes escapes in Scotland, Atlantic Canada, BC, Norway, US and Chile, only some of the countries with farmed salmon, and found, get this, more than25 Million escapes1996 - 2012.

But let's stop with the figures and say the important thing: the available science from John Volpe says he has found adult Atlantics and up to two years of progeny in up to 97% of Vancouver Island rivers with multiple species of wild salmon.This is shocking.Go look at this post and read it for yourself:https://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/2017/12/atlantic-salmon-in-van-isle-rivers.html, and then this post:https://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/2017/12/atlantic-salmon-in-bc-rivers-bad-news.html, and then this post:https://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/2017/10/escaped-atlantic-salmon-in-bc-volpe.html.
I think you get the point: BC fish farms lose a whole lot of fish, to, well, holes. Volpe says in his 2014 article, that it is obvious that fish farms don't report their escapes, because they are showing up in almost every river he looked in. Shocking.
And Slim says it is well managed? The scientist is saying they obviously don't report the losses of escaped fish. How well managed is that? And we haven't mentioned that this is DFO work cuz that is who Volpe worked for...
Oh, okay, you want more stats, and here they are
And, of course there is more, known as 'leakage', about 1% of all fish put in pens, or about 160,000 every year. (See farmed and dangerous). Hmm.
And, Slim, up there says BC fish farms are better managed, stellar, in fact.
I know this post is getting very long, and tiring, but one important thing in the table that you have to know a little economics to know, and, well, I do, is: if you look at the GDP contribution and the total revenue, you will note the disparity between the two figures. Fish farms contribute almost nothing to the BC GDP (that $61.9Million) and at the same time the revenue is more than 750% higher. That means that the great amount of revenue leaves BC, leaves Canada and goes home to Oslo Norway where company head offices dole it out as dividends to shareholders around the world, and also keep a whole lot.
I'm a little tired here, so I'll stop... but if you want more, let me know, because there is far more to say on the management side, and the legal side and the conservation and protection side, not to mention the sewage, the billions of fish killed to feed the farms... and on it goes.
And let's not have an earthquake, because after all there are 85 farms X 600,000 fish = 51 million fish in a good year. And Chile lost a whole bunch. Hmm.

http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/
 
Another compilation of dioxin levels for farmed vs wild salmon and other foodss. salmon-dioxins.jpg the study is a bit older, but shows European Farmed salmon to have the highest dioxin levels.

Science 09 Jan 2004:
Vol. 303, Issue 5655, pp. 226-229
DOI: 10.1126/science.1091447
salmon-dioxins.jpg
 
top scientists? from which side of the propaganda chart do they come from?
 
Dave said:
apparently not everyone wants Washington to stop farming Atlantic's

https://seawestnews.com/letter-from-top-us-seafood-scientists-about-salmon-farming/
Click to expand...

As usual there is no shortage of conflicting opinions and news releases...eh Dave
How do other members of this forum feel this will play out.
Open Pen Fish Farms license not renewed in Washington State or Law makers will back off and allow the industry to continue and grow as it is currently doing in B.C..
Check this story published in the Seattle Times this week.
Puget Sound region’s Atlantic salmon fish farms could be headed for final harvest
Fish Farms spokesmen say...
“ … the biological science is solid as a rock: farmed salmon pose zero threat to wild salmon, either in the marketplace or in our waterways,” the online posting states, with a form to email lawmakers and tell them “the science is clear: farmed salmon pose zero threat to wild salmon.”
Washington State replies...
That’s a stretch, said Jim Seeb, a fisheries biologist at the University of Washington. “When they are saying farmed salmon pose zero risk, that is totally not true,” Seeb said. “The science that Atlantic salmon cannot invade Washington? That science is not solid as a rock.”
“I want to stick with what we know: There is increased pollution from net pens. They are like marine feedlots,” Parsons said. “You have greater risk of fish pathogens, viruses, and disease and parasites and all of those present a risk to our native species. We cannot ignore the risk that these net pens pose to our efforts to recover our native salmon.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...fish-farms-could-be-headed-for-final-harvest/
 
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Are these the same diseased smolts that are regularly shipped to our B.C. Open Pen Fish Farms
"About 600,000 salmon smolts had to be killed following an outbreak in February of infectious salmon anemia at two land-based fish farms in Nova Scotia."
"CBC News requested comment from the Atlantic Canada Fish Farmers Association, but it has not responded."
https://globalnews.ca/news/4056978/salmon-smolts-killed/
 
I wonder how many bands are lining up to offer their traditional territories to salmon farm companies? Several, I would think.
 
What do you guys think about compensating first nations with farmed fish to help release fishing pressure on wild stocks.

In areas where FSC fisheries put low abundance stocks at risk?
 
Dave said:
I wonder how many bands are lining up to offer their traditional territories to salmon farm companies? Several, I would think.
Click to expand...
Of the 198 bands or so in BC - 4 (or so) I think is the number that have partnerships w open net-cage FF companies. I wouldn't categorize that as: "lining-up".

On the other hand - there are quite a few that are opposed to open net-cage FFs (almost unanimously) - and even the occasional ones like Alert Bay/‘Namgis/Musgmagw Dzawada'enuwx and the Heiltsuk who had them imposed on them despite their protests:

http://www.firstnations.de/fisheries/heiltsuk.htm
http://www.mdtc.ca/cleansing-our-waters
https://www.ubcic.bc.ca/fish_farms_zero_tolerance
http://www.timescolonist.com/life/islander/b-c-fish-farms-a-tangled-net-1.23111384

wrt non open net-cage finfish aquaculture technologies - such as closed containment and shellfish - different story...
 
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Here's yet another old news article from 2006 - but read the legal implications....

https://thetyee.ca/News/2006/03/01/PushNorthFishFarm/

I think the response from the Province/BC Ministry of Agriculture and Lands was: "ya - we will talk to you next week about this - maybe next month - maybe next election - oh look! - the feds are in charge now yaaaaahhhh! - so talk to them" (The 2009 Morton Decision)....
 
Thanks for this link aa. You are correct in that jurisdictions/territories will have to be uncontested, and I hope there are a few of those areas available for the FN that do want to get involved in aquaculture.
 
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