Federal government measures failed to protect endangered Chinook salmon in 2019

Discussion in 'Conservation, Fishery Politics and Management.' started by SpringVelocity, Feb 5, 2020.

  1. Jencourt

    Jencourt Well-Known Member

    Same experience for me up here Comox/Campbell River. Weekend , glass calm, best tides of the month (May) and fish galore . Counted a total of four boats all day from Cape mudge, to CampbellRiver hump to green can and Francisco. Only 2 appeared to be fishing others, on the move. Exact same in June as well. With that weather, tides and incredible fishing it would have been bumper to bumper on any other year.

    No way that would have provided a measurable amount of Mortality on the Fraser fish in question.
  2. ziggy

    ziggy Well-Known Member

    And we have a winner in the misleading for funding category. Come get your cheque Misty and tell us a little about your ecotourism funding grants. Lol.

    “In 2019, much of the fishing mortality occurred where recreational catch-and-release of Chinook salmon was permitted. To ensure these endangered Chinook salmon are protected, they must be listed under Canada’s Species at Risk Act,” says Raincoast Conservation Foundation Salmon Program Director Misty MacDuffee.

    “While millions of tax dollars were being spent to fly salmon in helicopters around the Big Bar landslide, our government was allowing thousands of these fish to be killed on their way into the Fraser River,” MacDuffee says.

    I guess the second statement is because no fish were gill netted in the Fraser. Has Misty or any of her disciples ever confronted illegal fishers in the Fraser? Ever pulled an illegal net? Ever even acknowledged it happens? Of Course not, that’s too political. These people need to be exposed.
    cohochinook likes this.
  3. ziggy

    ziggy Well-Known Member

    Just looking at Facebook again where a guy is talking about hooking 200-300 fish this summer. Talk about making a case for closures! If any of you guides are on here ( I suspect he’s one) you may want to tell him he ain’t helping your occupation!
    Cuba Libre likes this.
  4. wildmanyeah

    wildmanyeah Crew Member

    If people are wondering how they got to 37% they used this study https://www.fecpl.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/CSAS-FRIM-RESDOC-A-2017_010-eng.pdf

    and used the tables

    They also used this type of information to come to conclusions

    "The range of the probabilities for the four sub-components of Post Release Mortality (PRM) estimates were drawn from the Table 1. The Risk Factors and Mortality Risk Ranges are taken from Appendix A in Patterson et al. (2017b). The chosen Mortality Risk Range was based on selective interviews with two experienced anglers: one an experienced guide, the other a retired biologist who fishes non-guided. We could not find any published fishery independent or dependent estimates of the Risk Factors and mortality ranges."

  5. SerengetiGuide

    SerengetiGuide Well-Known Member

    See how the lng protestors are blocking highways and ports and even MPs offices. Gets attention. Gotta steal their tactics.
  6. wildmanyeah

    wildmanyeah Crew Member

    it also landed 34 people in jail today with generally bad press
  7. SerengetiGuide

    SerengetiGuide Well-Known Member

    After 4 days... don’t think we would be doing it for four days man... come on. You’re trying to say our methods are more effective ?! Ha Ha Ha
  8. ziggy

    ziggy Well-Known Member

    Yeah but I think they were all catch and release. Lol
    cohochinook and wildmanyeah like this.
  9. searun

    searun Well-Known Member

    Strongly encourage people to take a very close look at the "ASSUMPTIONS" being made in Patterson et al....authors have not tested any assumptions in the real world, conducting real research to ensure they validate those assumptions....the whole premise of the FRIM model is a stack of cards....don't be fooled people! DFO conducted actual field research on release mortality and concluded it was 15%. UBC is currently conducting new research - suggest we wait to see the outcomes.
  10. ChinookExerciser

    ChinookExerciser Active Member

    It will be high if you include release mortality due to seals. Look at the Vancouver reports thread.
  11. Whitebuck

    Whitebuck Well-Known Member

    This^. Playing fish and feeding the seals during the C and R opening last year.
    Stupid regulation, probably increased the population of seals around Vancouver and Thrasher last year!
  12. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    Yeah you will have to use statistics to capture it.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  13. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    I know kind of like letting catch and release happen for steelhead in river. Sort of same thing hey?
  14. Whitebuck

    Whitebuck Well-Known Member

    SV, out to lunch comment.
    If we had as many seals in our rivers I would completely agree with you.

    Defending the C and R fishery in the chuck to feed our local seals is garbage.

    Would agree with it if we were allowed to harvest 4 seals per trip!
    terrin and fogged in like this.
  15. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    Not really.

    So you agree mortality in marine fisheries is 37% from catch and release study that chinook exerciser keeps referencing? Correct?

    You also agree that we should be not participating selective marking fisheries when stocks of concern are present? Just close them all down like chinook exerciser wants?

    But that is perfectly fine to leave them open for your river fisheries, and catch and release?
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
    cohochinook likes this.
  16. Whitebuck

    Whitebuck Well-Known Member

    Never did I say that.
    Hatchery fish are meant to be killed.
    There is zero reason why there shouldn't be a marked fishery up and down the coast at all times!

    Catch and releasing while you have seals following your boat ain't the smartest idea regardless of the "37 % mortallity".
    Are you aware of the seal problem on our coast? Do you not fish the Vancouver area and see the amount of seals we have?

    As for the river fisheries or ANY fisheries if there is a stock that is at critical levels we should not be fishing for them!
    terrin and agentaqua like this.
  17. fogged in

    fogged in Well-Known Member

    [QUOTE="Whitebuck, post: 971547, member: 9425"Do you not fish the Vancouver area and see the amount of seals we have?

    Check out Nanaimo, Sidney, Victoria and Sooke if you wanta see Seals and or Sea Lions steal fish off your line, or after being released.
    Not every day, but once the Seals have their eye on you, like you said, they follow your boat.... best to move on because you can't win.
    Once had a double header with fish on and Seals got both at the same time... they headed for the shallow water reef off Coal Is. and you can feel the line rubbing on the rocks before it breaks! Smart little buggers, but the friend who I had out with me thought it was great excitement! Me...just mad about the lost flasher and squirt.
    From my experience, it's much less of a problem off the WCVI offshore and on Swiftsure it's a rare occurrence.
    Every area is different when it come to Seals and Sea Lions and guys who fish the areas where they are less of a problem, just don't get it!!
    Whitebuck likes this.
  18. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    Just so if I get this correctly from both of you.

    • Seals are a problem so we shouldn't have any catch and release fisheries at all. Nanaimo, Victoria, Sidney, Vic and Sooke are terrible but offshore is OK.
    • The Fraser river is closed to river angling therefore all marine areas should be closed.
    • The 37% mortality on catch and release study is valid as you see it, and Vancouver anglers shouldn't fish for salmon because there are too many seals.
    I don't know guys....:eek:
    cohochinook likes this.
  19. cohochinook

    cohochinook Well-Known Member

    I know you've done a lot of fishing there, Whitebuck. I spend a ton of time in the ocean fishing for Chinook. Last year I think I lost 2 Chinook to being sealed. I know some areas are worse than others but I think you're blowing the problem out of proportion! Let's not get in bed with NGO philosophy!
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
    SpringVelocity likes this.
  20. agentaqua

    agentaqua Well-Known Member

    Whitebuck is right, CC - seals are a big issue. Seal lions more of an issue out on the saltchuck on Chinook, while harbour seals more of an issue up the rivers on steelhead, juvie salmon and other in-river fish. This is up and down the coast.

    They are relentless in zeroing-in on C & R fisheries, as well as herring fisheries.

    I actually agree w Whitebuck's comments....
    ChinookExerciser likes this.

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