Enbridge

[goalie]

Green Party reveals over $100 million federal spending supporting Enbridge tanker plans

http://elizabethmaymp.ca/federal-spending-supporting-enbridge-tanker-plans

 

[Gunsmith]

Unfortunately you are right, the whole thing is a soap opera and you can almost predict the outcome.

 

[GDW]

I think even the resistance from the province is part of the show. This is going to happen.

 

[IronNoggin]

I think even the resistance from the province is part of the show...

As is the act by the FN's - just a hold-out for more $$$

And none of that is anything even close to cheery...
Nog

 

[Englishman]

Some of you guys are very pessimistic and in some cases cynical about the FN.

This is the post I put up earlier on the original thread (ON THE LINE) I started.

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This will not go through! Have you read the submissions to the Joint Review Panel? It is all posted here:-

http://gatewaypanel.review-examen.gc...scrpt-eng.html

More than 60% of all British Columbians are opposed to this project.

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/pol...teway-pipeline

This will result in a change of BC government in May. There will then be a very long political battle between the Province and the Feds.
Then factor in the First Nations, especially the Land Treaty issues and the fight will go on for years.

This bitumen pipeline will never be built across BC!! The people of BC will see to that.....

http://pipeupagainstenbridge.ca/five-big-problems

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I stand by this. The people of BC will not allow this pipeline to got through (especially the FN!) and if the Liberals try and go over the people's heads there will be change in provincial govt.

 

[agentaqua]

Our provincials have probably made the deal with federal...

Very astute of you, HF. I would lay money down that right now some senior provincial and federal cabinet ministers attending with senior bureaucrats, are sitting down and horse-trading with each other over how to get a green light from BC. Likely, they will look at how to get the provincial/federal oil spill response system better "funded".

I predict that they'll be an announcement in a few months over a "new" multimillion $ joint federal/provincial emergency response program, with large 50% "management" and "development" fees, the politicians involved will have a few thousand $ thrown into their party and/or election funds from some nebulous bogus 3rd party "BC000115" firm, and the ministers involved will buy more Chinese oil interests and oil pipeline in their venture capital stock portfolios - all under their wife's name. Would be interesting to see what A**hole Harper and Joe Oliver declared in their conflict of interest declarations. Really can't track the manila envelopes under the table. Think the Mulrooney/Schriber affair was a rare exception as to how business is done in Ottawa? I don't. It's how business is done. Lobbyists are paid well to disseminate the cash.

 

[Gunsmith]

There is a wild card that no one has mentioned, the Kitimat Clean Proposal for a refinery. Still needs a pipeline but?

 

[jeffywestcoast]

that proposal makes me sick.. we already export 2/3 of our oil reserves to other countries.., it's time to start building more of our own refineries and quit letting uncle sam take us for our oil..I dont think either of those pipelines should be built. Time to start acting like we own the second largest oil reserve on the planet. we have increasingly fewer refineries and uncle sam just keeps building bigger and bigger ones...

 

[ziggy]

There is a wild card that no one has mentioned, the Kitimat Clean Proposal for a refinery. Still needs a pipeline but?

I doubt the environmentalists will ever allow a refinery to be built in BC. When's the last time a refinery was built anywhere in Canada? Clearly there is room to make a profit, yet no new refineries? Have to wonder why?

 

[Gunsmith]

Money and control.

I doubt the environmentalists will ever allow a refinery to be built in BC. When's the last time a refinery was built anywhere in Canada? Clearly there is room to make a profit, yet no new refineries? Have to wonder why?

 

[Gunsmith]

We have made oil a necessity of life and we are not willing to be weaned from it.

 

[demco99]

on the topic of BC exporting energy, the scale of these are massive:

http://www.vancouversun.com/export+...rmanent+jobs+report+claims/8697850/story.html

 

[Englishman]

We have made oil a necessity of life and we are not willing to be weaned from it.

Gunsmith has hit the nail on the head. We are not willing to be weaned off oil.

The urgent necessity is to begin the weaning right now. NOT to go cold turkey as that is not practical or desirable. But to begin moving in another direction, not building more pipelines and enabling more oil and tar sands development.
It is completely insane to keep doing what we are doing. This year for the first time CO2 levels in the atmosphere went past 400ppm, the highest level since the Pliocene Epoch more than 2 million years ago. We are well on track to reach 450ppm.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...in-the-atmosphere-reaches-prehistoric-levels/
http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/a-400-ppm-world

Arctic sea ice cover reached record low levels in 2012 although it looks like it won't break that record in 2013. Most of that ice is floating already but where that goes the Greenland and Antarctic ice cap will follow, especially in a 450ppm CO2 world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/06/noaa-report-arctic-ice-climate-change

http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2013/07/

This matters because the consequences of major sea level rise will be catastrophic for the entire world, even Canada. Erosion is already happening in the far north due to permafrost damage and the first climate change refugees are already being created in North America.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...kan-village-disappears-underwater-decade.html

on the topic of BC exporting energy, the scale of these are massive:

http://www.vancouversun.com/export+...rmanent+jobs+report+claims/8697850/story.html

And so the politicians and oil barons and “economists” continue to be blinded by the numbers of jobs and the wealth that is going to be created. But they are deliberately ignoring the huge costs that will be incurred as a result of sea level rise – that is real $ not just environmental damage - that will far exceed any supposed economic benefits. Those massive costs and social disruptions are going to hit Canadians, not just the rest of the world, and very soon.

We need an energy investment policy and R&D budget that is going to scale down tar sand development over the next 20-30 years, not build more pipelines like there is no tomorrow!!

 

[Fishhound]

Oil and gas and the oilsands mostly are now and have been driving the economy of this country for a long time, without the oilsands our economy would have went down the tubes in 2008
We need oil and gas and we need these pipelines to get a fair price for the oil and gas that will be transported in them

 

[Gunsmith]

The problem is who gets the fair price and who gets the disaster when it happens.

 

[GLG]

Oil and gas and the oilsands mostly are now and have been driving the economy of this country for a long time, without the oilsands our economy would have went down the tubes in 2008
We need oil and gas and we need these pipelines to get a fair price for the oil and gas that will be transported in them

You got any data to backup this statement?
As far as I remember the construction industry is a lot bigger then the oil patch.
Some of us have road the oil patch roller coaster in our careers and can tell you it's not fun.
Work your tail off just to get laid off when the price of oil drops.
It's not a smart bet to try to base our whole economy on that roller coaster.
Where does it say that we should be the gas tank to China?
What about future generations after we ship the last barrel out of the country?

 

[triplenickel]

You got any data to backup this statement?
As far as I remember the construction industry is a lot bigger then the oil patch.
Some of us have road the oil patch roller coaster in our careers and can tell you it's not fun.
Work your tail off just to get laid off when the price of oil drops. or grain, or coal, or minerals, or lumber, or fish or the economy in general
It's not a smart bet to try to base our whole economy on that roller coaster. Our economy is based on resources.
Where does it say that we should be the gas tank to China?
What about future generations after we ship the last barrel out of the country? What about current generations if we don't use our abundant natural resources?

You again? lol We all know the energy industry is the economic driver of the country, I provided you with all kinds of data a couple months back. For anyone that missed it GLG made his money in the patch in Alberta and retired in BC but for some reason doesn't think others should get the same opportunity. He's far more evolved now.

As for the original post in this thread while I'm not for the Northern Gateway Project I am for gathering data so I ask those who are against the spending a couple of questions;

Would you prefer Enbridge do the study, would you accept the results?
Would you prefer no one do the study?
Would you prefer the province do the study?
Would you prefer the feds do the study?
Do you have any realistic alternatives?

Elizabeth May was on The House this morning, she didn't make a compelling case at all, she just came across as oppositional and difficult, damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of mentality. Besides it's old news and far from secret.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2013/09/20130904-214347.html

 

[Englishman]

Oil and gas and the oilsands mostly are now and have been driving the economy of this country for a long time, without the oilsands our economy would have went down the tubes in 2008
We need oil and gas and we need these pipelines to get a fair price for the oil and gas that will be transported in them

And what is more this is a typical head-in-the-sand reply that totally ignores the consequences I posted about above. Proponents cannot see that BC, Alberta, Canada and the rest of the world are all "down the tubes" if we cannot wean ourselves off oil over the next 20-30 years. Maybe you don't care because global warming is going to hit the young and future generations the hardest or because you believe you are immune to its effects?

 

[Englishman]

As for the original post in this thread while I'm not for the Northern Gateway Project I am for gathering data so I ask those who are against the spending a couple of questions;

Would you prefer Enbridge do the study, would you accept the results?

What “study” are you referring to. A lot of this money is for spending on infrastructure. The spending makes a laughing stock of the whole JRP process because it is not necessary if the project is not approved.

Would you prefer no one do the study?

Actually yes. However IF the project were approved THAT is the time to spend taxpayer money. [/QUOTE]

Would you prefer the province do the study?
Would you prefer the feds do the study?

Wrong questions. No one should do any work and spend taxpayer money UNLESS the project is approved.

Do you have any realistic alternatives?

Realistic alternatives to what? The pipeline? Oil?

Elizabeth May was on The House this morning, she didn't make a compelling case at all, she just came across as oppositional and difficult, damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of mentality. Besides it's old news and far from secret.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2013/09/20130904-214347.html

Actually she makes a damn fine case
http://elizabethmaymp.ca/federal-spending-supporting-enbridge-tanker-plans
As for the readers of the sunnews you can gauge the level of mentality and capability of rational and intellectual thought from the comments underneath the article. Truly scary…..!

 

[GLG]

For anyone that missed it GLG made his money in the patch in Alberta and retired in BC but for some reason doesn't think others should get the same opportunity.

Nope not true... Worked the patch when I was younger and left it for a career in IT.
That's where I made my money so that I could retiree.
I'm against expanding the patch not shutting it down.
Will post more when I have time....