wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Seen this posted on FB, Interesting indeed, Kinda funny seeing cowichan third on the list....maybe it is in the best interest of some areas to see that fishery remain closed lol
CWT 2018 results from BC recreational Fisheries
- Thread starter wildmanyeah
- Start date
bigbruce
Crew Member
Might be terrible news for sports fishers, but it's a hell of a lot of work for the people who do the clipping! I volunteer at a fairly small hatchery on the Island. We raise coho - about 80,000 per year. And we clip every fricking one of them - about 10 of us at our Wednesday and Saturday 3 hour work parties. One fish at a time with a small pair of scissors. Takes us a lot of work parties to get through them all.
Guess what - we don't do it so sports fishers can keep them when they're caught (I'm an avid sports fisherman BTW), rather, we do it so we can recognize them when they return to our creek so we can try to avoid using them for our brood stock for the next season. Our goal is to use only wild fish for brood stock.
I shudder to think how much effort would go into manually clipping millions of chinook smolts before they are released. Or even if they were all clipped, the thought of managing the brood stock egg take of that magnitude to avoid using hatchery (i.e. clipped) fish.
So, Stizzla, if you want to see more hatchery fish clipped, think about volunteering at a hatchery in your area and getting your hands wet clipping the little buggers!!
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
That’s why some groups have asked for funding to automate the process.
Big Bruce do you allow your hatchery fish to spawn or do you harvest them for ESSR?
bigbruce
Crew Member
Yes, we generally allow them to spawn, although the ones that come up our ladder usually don't make it back to the creek. For the most part, though, they are only one cycle removed from wild.
It will be interesting to see how the groups looking to automate the process will do with their funding requests.
Peahead
Well-Known Member
It is unfortunate and automation is the answer ( eg Washington State) .
Nobody would expect manual clipping for a 100% Marked Selective Fishery. Manual clipping for CWT tagged Chinook is one thing, for MSF is another. I think Stizzla stating a 10% clip rate as being "terrible news" is referring to the need for an MSF, not criticizing the lower (10%) clipped numbers that volunteers do for CWT purposes .
Realizing that clipping up to 100% would be specifically for MSF , obviously automation such as Washington States MSF clipping, would be needed. The strong push to get at MSF underway NOW at BC hatcheries is critical and absolutely would include the automated mobile units that auto mass clip. The obstacles with DFO going MSF as I understand is actually not about the cost/funding for the machines, 1.5 K as I understand (EDIT/TYPO 1.5 M). For our Chinook net pen project in Vancouver Harbour we had about 58,500 smolts clipped with CWT out of a total of 113,000 ( just above 50%). All were manually clipped thankfully by Capilano hatchery staff! The hatchery river released fish had same numbers of CWT/manually clipped but much smaller percentage of total released (400,000 released in river)
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Brian Klassen
Member
Peahead, you are mistaken on the cost of those mass marking units. They are not 1.5 K per machine but 1.5 million per unit. Manual clipping is indeed what happens at all of the DFO major hatcheries and it takes a very long time, especially with coho as they are for the most part all adipose clipped for the retention fishery. Chinook not so much so as they also have to be Coded Wire Tagged as well as part of the US - Canada Pacific Salmon Treaty.
Stizzla
Crew Member
I’d love to! Thanks for your effort
There needs to be a thread with info for where and when people can help. If there is already, please post a link as I don’t frequent the conservation threads often as it makes my blood boil more often than not.
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I am hopeful that the newest DNA technology - Parental-based tagging or PBT - might be helpful for hatcheries in reducing tagging & equipment costs as it gains momentum within the hatchery protocols/culture wrt understanding and improving success in rearing/release protocols. It likely won't be useful or utilized for understanding & apportioning catch by watershed and fishery tho. That's where the CWTs are important.
Peahead
Well-Known Member
A bit more explanation as to the "obstacles" I mentioned above and further to BKlassens mention of US-Canada PST. Canada presently has to CWT clipped Chinook (so no clipping for MSF ) in the agreement with the US. From what I have learned it is not much of an issue for Canada to move to Mass Marking with the US but there needs to be political will in Canada to do so. Providing US notification then apparently it is something that can likely be done under the treaty.
littlechucky
Crew Member
Our friends in puget sound would probably be greatly appreciative of a 100% mark rate on Canadian Chinook.
As their fishery is open/closed based on “encounters” with “wild” fish, my suspicion is that many of the “wild” fish caught in determining the length of their season are really unclipped Canadian hatchery fish....likely chilliwack, etc.
I think going to a MSF is really our only hope longer term.
As their fishery is open/closed based on “encounters” with “wild” fish, my suspicion is that many of the “wild” fish caught in determining the length of their season are really unclipped Canadian hatchery fish....likely chilliwack, etc.
I think going to a MSF is really our only hope longer term.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Here is a video of how the system works from our friends to the south. It's from 2011 so I'm sure there have been improvements since then.
More info and pricing is here at this link.
https://www.nmt.us/autofish-system/
Ontario has a system for their chinook program but I haven't found the link yet.
More info and pricing is here at this link.
https://www.nmt.us/autofish-system/
Ontario has a system for their chinook program but I haven't found the link yet.
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Any idea of the above on the upper Fraser stocks and each area?
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that video CLG. It would be interesting to see if today's trailer and system is improved after 8 years. 8,000 per hour sounds a very good number although I thought I heard the clip rate was even higher ( If my math is correct that is a little over 2 fish per second) Perhaps there has been an improvement in speed since the 2011 trailer?
The efficiency with trailers too is not being a fixed lab they have the mobility to accomodate multiple hatcheries. That hatchery in the video mention that 75% of their 1M fish were both clipped and had CWT imbedded. Interesting as clipping for MSF /retention pruposes would commonly have a much smaller percentage of clipped Chin. also having a CWT ( there would be a very high percentage of clipped fish without CWT) Hence why such a high percentage of clipped Chinook we catch off my local area in SoG have no CWT. Canada/BC presently clips Chinook only for the purpose of indicating it has a CWT imbedded - about 10% ( with no MSF on Chinook as of yet). Therefore in almost all cases of clipped Chinook being caught that have no CWT, are USA Chinook. For Coho, not the case. For example our local Capilano Hatchery clips all their coho (MSF) of which only about 10 % of those have CWT.
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GLG
Well-Known Member
I would think that BC would need a few of these mobil labs to get through the large amounts that we produce. Here is a link that shows that the production rate based on 2 shifts working 6am - 11pm would clip 100K smolts. That would be around 6000 per hour. So a million smolts would take at least 10 days working flat out.
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/trailers-clip-millions-fins-so-anglers-can-spot-keepers
I don't know that much about Chinook production on the Capilano Hatchery so I tried to find some numbers and ran across this old PDF from the 1983. Good read and was impressed by some of the numbers and survival rates. Sure wish we could get back to 15% smolt to adult ratio for those coho.
https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/349582.pdf
How many Chinook smolts are produced Capilano Hatchery per year?
Wow. Great Video.
Sure Makes DFO past and present along with Several Canadian Governments look pretty dam sickening when you think of what our fishery Could Be.
No its easier to do as little as possible, spend as little as possible, manage as little as possible. After all the fish will look after themselves.
Way to go DFO keep managing to ZERO.
Sure Makes DFO past and present along with Several Canadian Governments look pretty dam sickening when you think of what our fishery Could Be.
No its easier to do as little as possible, spend as little as possible, manage as little as possible. After all the fish will look after themselves.
Way to go DFO keep managing to ZERO.
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Capilano's Chinook brood stock has come from the Chilliwack ( originally Harrison stock) and they released 400,000 in-river as I recall. I will check that number this week but I am pretty sure that is what is was. Of those 400,000 there were approx 60,000 CWT and clipped. Capilano hatchery provides an additional 100,000-113,000 Chinook smolts to our VSFGA net pen project each year ( 113,000 provided this year). Those then are released from our net pen at West Van DFO Lab out by Pt Atkinson. Of those 113,000 in the pen this year there were approx 6o,ooo of those CWT and clipped. The clipped Chinook with CWT released in-river by the hatchery and those from the net pen that were CWT were equal so that they can compare survival of returns from in-river released Chinook smolts vs those released from the net pen. The net pen Chinook releases generally do better in comparison to in-river releases.
Capilano hasn't been using their own returning adults for brood stock at all for several years. They still get all their brood from Chilliwack. This despite having plenty of returning adults they could use as stock. The returning Chinook go to various usese including to FN. This is apparently because they have been wanting to breed out some other stock they had in past from east coast VI and Squamish.
I can't remember what the released coho numbers are but I will e-mail them this week to get that number. They clip all of the Coho and CWT about 10%.
As far as the clipping labs go. I heard that if we get them there would likely be 3 that would travel around to hatcheries.
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Further to my post above as I just re-read some of my e-mail transactions with the Cap Hatchery last month. More precisely the Capilano has not been using their own brood stock for the last 4 years. The reason comes down to the issue of 'straying.' Straying being one of the issues that hatcheries have to be careful about and one reason why there are limits to release numbers and stocks. The Cap Hatchery have been getting all their brood eggs from Chilliwack and not using their own as they are getting rid of any remaining red Chinook genes that may have mixed in with their whites. Over the years there were several Chinook stocks introduced into the Capilano and later on there was a worry that all those mixed genes would contaminate the gene pools of the Squamish Chinook, since the fish were straying up there. So it was decided to start clean on the Cap Chinook.
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