Catch and release - reminders

These are recent DFO costs for hatchery Chinook:
Cost/adult produced:
$33.33 Omega Yearling (S1s)
$3.33 All yearling
$1.14 Subyearling

I hate to say this but given all the restrictions what is the point of hatcherys

To provide fish for.,,,,
 
To provide fish for all the sectors that harvest fish, include endangered sea mammals! The more fish means we don’t all have to fight over the ever dwindling numbers of wild fish.
 
Wow you need to wake up, there is only one sector who befits from these new closures, there is only one sector killing endangered Fraser fish. In some areas Were 80cm away from being closed, some areas are completely closed. were all dreaming if we think DFO IS ACTUALLY GOING DO SOMETHING. I think a few senior people on here owe WOLF an apology as he was correct in the way this would play out. This is not going to get better, next year the areas that are open to retention of the 80cm will be closed. we need to stop all Intel going to DFO until they actually start listening, some of the areas with the best Intel are completely closed WTF , I for one will never send info to DFO EVER AGAIN , what are they going to do close us down , well we are there. Were in a process that is a one way street, lots of volunteer time , DFO picks out what they see as a benefit to another sector and actually close the sector down that is trying to make a difference. A sad sad day to be a rec angler
 
...20 percent come on where do you get your math? Not picking on you but this catch and release fantasy mortality figure keeps going up. So if that's the case steelhead fisheries should all be closed as well as all hook and line river fisheries. There are numerous studies done on this around the world. 20 percent is big stretch.
Well - 1st off, SV - since you claimed that mortality was "minimal" - it should be you providing references to back up your claim. Asking me for references indicates to me that you haven't looked it up but are instead hoping it is "minimal" - so thanks for that admission & providing an opportunity to learn and question things. Some of the references you may wish to look-up are:
average 18% - https://www.researchgate.net/public...tality_with_Implications_for_No-take_Reserves
17.8% (n = 24) from the chased + air group - https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2018-0426#.Xu4vbud7lPY

There are lower mortality estimates available for specific combinations of better environmental and physiological conditions, better angler care and fishing gear with less overall mortality - the points that were already mentioned earlier on this thread and others. However, one would need to be careful to pick out the very best examples to claim that C&R has "minimal" mortality only in those very detailed conditions...
 
These are recent DFO costs for hatchery Chinook:
Cost/adult produced:
$33.33 Omega Yearling (S1s)
$3.33 All yearling
$1.14 Subyearling
Is this cost per returning adult?
I have seen statement before. It is very familiar.mmmm.
Probably because it is true. The studies I have looked at in the past that used a 20% number actually captured the fish, put them in live-tanks, then took them to net pens to monitor mortality. At the end of the day, what we all believe doesn't matter very much, it is what those that make the rules believe & it appears they believe 20%.
 
Is this cost per returning adult?

Probably because it is true. The studies I have looked at in the past that used a 20% number actually captured the fish, put them in live-tanks, then took them to net pens to monitor mortality. At the end of the day, what we all believe doesn't matter very much, it is what those that make the rules believe & it appears they believe 20%.

What a pile of ******** yet again.
 
Wow you need to wake up, there is only one sector who befits from these new closures, there is only one sector killing endangered Fraser fish. In some areas Were 80cm away from being closed, some areas are completely closed. were all dreaming if we think DFO IS ACTUALLY GOING DO SOMETHING. I think a few senior people on here owe WOLF an apology as he was correct in the way this would play out. This is not going to get better, next year the areas that are open to retention of the 80cm will be closed. we need to stop all Intel going to DFO until they actually start listening, some of the areas with the best Intel are completely closed WTF , I for one will never send info to DFO EVER AGAIN , what are they going to do close us down , well we are there. Were in a process that is a one way street, lots of volunteer time , DFO picks out what they see as a benefit to another sector and actually close the sector down that is trying to make a difference. A sad sad day to be a rec angler
Yup totally agree the public fishery (aka rec sector) needs to wake up, big time and fast!!! This is totally a political fight now. DFO does not respond to anything but political direction from the top. So we need to start to influence the top however, whatever way we legally can.
 
Oh I guess so :rolleyes:

Many don't realize this but our local SOG anglers in Nanaimo on Vancouver Island participated with DFO in study on this argument of catch and release in 90's. Yes that right it has already been done,. As far as I know this study is the most closest to what we have on our area. On PG.7 of this document it reads the following:

British Columbia: Relatively few studies of hooking mortality have been conducted for coho and chinook captured in marine recreational salmon fisheries in British Columbia. Gjernes (1990) observed post-hooking mortality for 152 chinook captured by researchers trolling using flashers and hootchies ondownriggers in Georgia Strait. Lures were rigged with two size 4/0 single barbed hooks in tandem, 5 cmapart. The fish caught ranged from 35-80 cm and were held for 24-72 hrs in net pens. Mortality for all fishcombined was 9.9%; for fish 35-44 cm, mortality was 12.5%; for fish 45-62 cm, mortality was 8.2%, and for fish >62 cm, mortality was 13.6%. For all size classes, there was no detectable difference in mortality rates between fish hooked on one or both hooks. Hook location was determined to be the most important factor associated with hooking mortality; virtually all of the fish that died had sustained injuries to majorblood vessels associated with the gills and heart.

https://www.psf.ca/sites/default/files/99_127e.pdf

So you tell me with barbless hooks, and proper fishery how would mortality by 20 percent or higher? I did talk to one of them that set this up, and those weren't handled that great using barbed gear that is prohibited. Also if you look closely a lot of the numbers you keep preaching are coming from barbed fisheries or non-marine studies.

Anyways I am going to let this thread go. It was supposed to talk about catch release techniques not fish mortality arguments.
 
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All these stats before hero shots and were a factor. I’m sure that under those circumstances you may see those numbers.
However add in today’s mentality of most the anglers out there with the hero shot there is no way you can claim those numbers.

Were your Nanaimo anglers doing the studies netting, holding them out of the water for minutes at a time?


Kenai river Chinook in this study had a 7% mortallity. This is a fishery where big hooks and bait are the bread and butter.

To compare these numbers to freshwater fisheries is even more of a joke. Do you realizes how many fish you would see dead on our rivers? Especially with some of our steelhead being recaptured more than a dozen times over a season?

Maybe now anglers are finally going to realize we only have two options moving forward, open it to 1 per day or no fishing! Conservation has never been the goal with DFO, its only goal is appeasing one user group!
 
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20% is the total of 15% for released fish + 5% for "drop-off" mortality. IMO not much different that your numbers SV.
lso there have been numerous studies on mortality of catch and release and it's minimal.
Guess the word minimal has different meaning for different people.
IMO what REALLY matters is that those who regulate our fisheries don't think it is minimal.
 
20% is the total of 15% for released fish + 5% for "drop-off" mortality. IMO not much different that your numbers SV.

Guess the word minimal has different meaning for different people.
IMO what REALLY matters is that those who regulate our fisheries don't think it is minimal.

Kind of like your SEAK discussions:rolleyes:. Not sure why you have to get last word but maybe start your own thread? The catch and release mortality has nothing really to do with initial post that started the thread in first place. Why are you just carrying on?

I stand by my comment. Be careful of catch and release fisheries, and mortality. The environmental groups are not going to stop at marine fisheries it will spill into terminal fisheries and that means your salmon,steel head and sturgeon hook/line fisheries. You just watch.
 
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IMO... tandem hook set ups should not be allowed. Should be any one hook. Large single being best. I still use large treble for bait at this time but plan to fish spoons a lot more this year and experiment with single hooks on bait.
Use appropriate gear, release fish beside boat where ever possible and be respectful.
Go fishing and have fun!
 
but plan to fish spoons a lot more this year and experiment with single hooks on bait.
I have been using tandem singles with cut-plug for about 60 years & with Anchovy holders for 20 years. Can't remember the last time anything got hooked on the front hook when using two hooks.
 
The opening paragraph of the abstract states "currently, coastwide hooking mortality rates are set at 10% for adult Coho and 15% for adult Chinook, independent of the gear or method of presentation used".

The argument the ENGO's (watershed watch, MCC, etc) make is that there is also a high level of drop off mortality (as others mentioned) and that factors into their very high overall FRIM of something like 30% or so depending on who's explaining their method.

I've also heard many reference to the C&R mortality rates of the study done up at Langara decades ago using guides and a net pen and I believe the mortality was closer to 2-3% for that study.

I personally feel the mortality has a lot to do with how skilled the angler is with playing and releasing the fish, as well as gear used. The skilled guys can probably have that very low single digit mortality. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people on the water are not skilled and don't know about or use best C&R practices so a mortality rate of some where in the 10-20% is quite feasible, IMO.

I don't think allowing a broad C&R fishery in the best route. Would rather see openings for retaining chinook when stocks of concern aren't an issue and closing salmon fishing when and where stocks of concern are present (another debate on that :)


Oh I guess so :rolleyes:

Many don't realize this but our local SOG anglers in Nanaimo on Vancouver Island participated with DFO in study on this argument of catch and release in 90's. Yes that right it has already been done,. As far as I know this study is the most closest to what we have on our area. On PG.7 of this document it reads the following:

British Columbia: Relatively few studies of hooking mortality have been conducted for coho and chinook captured in marine recreational salmon fisheries in British Columbia. Gjernes (1990) observed post-hooking mortality for 152 chinook captured by researchers trolling using flashers and hootchies ondownriggers in Georgia Strait. Lures were rigged with two size 4/0 single barbed hooks in tandem, 5 cmapart. The fish caught ranged from 35-80 cm and were held for 24-72 hrs in net pens. Mortality for all fishcombined was 9.9%; for fish 35-44 cm, mortality was 12.5%; for fish 45-62 cm, mortality was 8.2%, and for fish >62 cm, mortality was 13.6%. For all size classes, there was no detectable difference in mortality rates between fish hooked on one or both hooks. Hook location was determined to be the most important factor associated with hooking mortality; virtually all of the fish that died had sustained injuries to majorblood vessels associated with the gills and heart.

https://www.psf.ca/sites/default/files/99_127e.pdf

So you tell me with barbless hooks, and proper fishery how would mortality by 20 percent or higher? I did talk to one of them that set this up, and those weren't handled that great using barbed gear that is prohibited. Also if you look closely a lot of the numbers you keep preaching are coming from barbed fisheries or non-marine studies.

Anyways I am going to let this thread go. It was supposed to talk about catch release techniques not fish mortality arguments.
 
IMO... tandem hook set ups should not be allowed. Should be any one hook. Large single being best. I still use large treble for bait at this time but plan to fish spoons a lot more this year and experiment with single hooks on bait.
Use appropriate gear, release fish beside boat where ever possible and be respectful.
Go fishing and have fun!

I like large single hooks, but if you end up catching many smaller fish the large hooks many times end up taking out their eyes and they bleed to death. If smaller fish around best to use a smaller singe hook in my experience.
 
I don't think allowing a broad C&R fishery in the best route. Would rather see openings for retaining chinook when stocks of concern aren't an issue and closing salmon fishing when and where stocks of concern are present (another debate on that :)

That’s a pretty high bar to meet

Especially if start to consider other stocks of concern that are of non Fraser origin.

In the absence of meaningful federal funding to improve at risk stocks it also may be an impossible goal to achieve.
 
Well - 1st off, SV - since you claimed that mortality was "minimal" - it should be you providing references to back up your claim. Asking me for references indicates to me that you haven't looked it up but are instead hoping it is "minimal" - so thanks for that admission & providing an opportunity to learn and question things. Some of the references you may wish to look-up are:
average 18% - https://www.researchgate.net/public...tality_with_Implications_for_No-take_Reserves
17.8% (n = 24) from the chased + air group - https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2018-0426#.Xu4vbud7lPY

There are lower mortality estimates available for specific combinations of better environmental and physiological conditions, better angler care and fishing gear with less overall mortality - the points that were already mentioned earlier on this thread and others. However, one would need to be careful to pick out the very best examples to claim that C&R has "minimal" mortality only in those very detailed conditions...


A quick question.. . do u own a boat and particapet in the Public fishery? if so what area's and how many days...:)
 
I've also heard many reference to the C&R mortality rates of the study done up at Langara decades ago using guides and a net pen and I believe the mortality was closer to 2-3% for that study.
I can agree that C&R mortality is highly related to skill; the Langara guides I fished with never took a fish out of the water; nor would I have allowed it for a photo op no matter fish size.
 
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