Catch and release - reminders

[Whole in the Water]

Very good question - I don't really know answer as I am not an expert - need to get a bunch of qualified experts to come to a consensus decision I would think. I don't think we are benchmarking much as DFO is not really interested and not enough citizen based science is going on.

IMHO I don't think we will ever get out of the ER ward re. wild west coast salmon populations. IMO we are way passed that point now with our ever increasing population growth, unsustainable consumer demands and social, economic, and political vagaries. Unfortunately, in the future I think wild populations of all sorts of organisms world-wide are going to take big hits. Unless we as a species start to really make some big changes. I sure as hell hope we can because without a healthy environment - we and most everything else will suffer. Not trying to be all gloom and doom, just realistic based upon our species history. I hope we can all rise to the challenge to change for the better.

This is why IMO I say some improved hatchery salmon augmenting some wild salmon = more salmon (for everyone including orcas) is better than just ever decreasing wild salmon only. Case in point the stupendously failed DFO Wild Salmon Policy that has led to only decreased salmon populations. Such a simple, narrow focussed policy will not work on something as complex and interconnected as west coast salmon. If we don't do something more than some token piecemeal habitat restoration and ineffective, biased harvesting restrictions we will just be left to us all fighting over the dwindling numbers of salmon - which is now starting to really take place and bound to get worse.

High time for us all to get over ourselves and our positions and stop all our infighting between all the sectors and groups and come together to work on results based solutions me thinks.

 

[ericl]

Not only does the real article not exist anymore, it is nearly 20 years old.... and also based on Oregon hatcheries... Next to zero relevance to BC hatcheries.

The posts are 11 years old - if the article doesn't exist, how do you know how old it is?

Why is it next to zero relevance to BC hatchery's? Do you have any idea what a BC hatchery Chinook costs? FYI the bulk of hatchery Chinook caught in BC are from US hatchery's ; just trying to make the "Bonk Them All" crowd realize how much SOMEBODY besides themselves is paying for the fish they bonk.

IMO hatcheries whether you like them or not, need to be part of the solution to bring back salmon populations. My 2 bits.

Totally agree. The second worse thing to happen to Chinook was hatchery's. The worst thing was the man-made conditions that make them required. Hatchery's started on the Columbia before 1880.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Totally disagree. The second worst man made thing to happen to Chinook was not hatcheries was over fishing. The first was habitat destruction IMO. Hatcheries don’t even come close. The old 1970’s and older hatchery theories, techniques and technologies have there problems for sure. May I suggest you research modern evolving hatchery techniques.

If it weren’t for hatcheries we would be in much worse shape then now. There are far bigger issues to tackle before hatcheries. Ideally hatcheries should be just a temporary measure but we humans can’t seem to manage salmon well enough to stop needing them.

 

[G-Auto]

The posts are 11 years old - if the article doesn't exist, how do you know how old it is?

Why is it next to zero relevance to BC hatchery's? Do you have any idea what a BC hatchery Chinook costs? FYI the bulk of hatchery Chinook caught in BC are from US hatchery's ; just trying to make the "Bonk Them All" crowd realize how much SOMEBODY besides themselves is paying for the fish they bonk.

the post references the real article saying it’s from 2002.. did you even read it? It also has a link to said article which no longer exists. You sure like throwing around “data”. Most of the CLIPPED hatchery fish caught in BC are from the US. We have no idea how many BC hatchery fish are caught here because only 10% of them are clipped. To answer your question, no, I don’t know how much a Hatchery Chinook costs in BC, but saying that it’s the same cost in BC as it is in Oregon 18 year ago isn’t any help to us in BC either. The one thing we do agree on is someone does have to pay for them and we shouldn’t be bonking them all.

 

[wildmanyeah]

We have no idea how many BC hatchery fish are caught here because only 10% of them are clipped.

They actually have a good estimate on wcvi based on otolith marking. Hatcheries contribute to above 50% of the rec catch.

 

[ericl]

Totally disagree. The second worst man made thing to happen to Chinook was not hatcheries was over fishing

I consider overfishing a man-made condition.

the post references the real article saying it’s from 2002.. did you even read it? It also has a link to said article which no longer exists. You sure like throwing around “data”

Since you have no data you sure like talking out of your backend pal - do you think the cost has gone down in the last 10-18 years? FYI I did not say it costs the same; looks like you might have comprehension issues???

 

[tincan]

This is a really powerful / cool tool that aggregates all population / habitat / etc data for all salmon conservation units in BC.

https://salmonexplorer.ca/#!/

The Fraser River watershed and Vancouver Island watershed areas will be updated on this tool very soon I'm told which would map the entire BC coast salmon CU's in one place. You can find the history of all salmon CU's in terms of population/spwaners/etc and if data is deficient for a given year/species they will note that. Once the Fraser and VI data is included I think this will be a powerful tool for fisheries managers and all stakeholders in the salmon world.

No I do not.

At risk, show me what stocks are not at risk and where they are at any given time.
Show me the science on this as you would say.

Do you really think science really knows exactly what stocks are at risk and exactly where they are at any given time?

The west coast rivers are at risk as well so be sure you cover them.

So, you personally are ok with not really knowing?

It is only in the last couple of years that Canada actually looked out in the ocean for where the fish go.
They still do not know everything.

Many species of salmon stocks are NOT ok.


So saying that we know what is going on is just BS.
We know a little, but far from everything.

 

[agentaqua]

These are recent DFO costs for hatchery Chinook:
Cost/adult produced:
$33.33 Omega Yearling (S1s)
$3.33 All yearling
$1.14 Subyearling

 

[littlechucky]

These are recent DFO costs for hatchery Chinook:
Cost/adult produced:
$33.33 Omega Yearling (S1s)
$3.33 All yearling
$1.14 Subyearling

I will take 100 pls.

 

[SpringVelocity]

The easiest solution to protect the reasource is to simply offer ZERO fin-fishing over salmon stocks of concern. Otherwise open to one fish hatchery or wild. Cycling though fish to find a hatchery marked animal is in most cases near impossible, for as Canada rarely marks hatchery raised Chinook or coho.

Open it to one fish or close it.

Disagree . Outright just closing fisheries aren't the solution when hatchery stocks are present. Also there have been numerous studies on mortality of catch and release and it's minimal. Unless your an NGO than you have your own science paper. It also keeps people within fishing community like tackle shops and everyone else employed.

We already can see the damage this non-retention thing has been doing to the Nanaimo area, and SOG fish areas. Look at Sooke right now. I hate what this is doing to that town, and businesses that rely on them.

 

[agentaqua]

I think the way I look at it instead is - are there wild stocks "of concern" present? 2nd question - will either retention and/or C&R impact those stocks? 3rd - How badly?

To blandly claim that C&R mortality is "minimal" is really disingenuous, IMHO. It depends on many factors already discussed here - but is often ~20%. I wouldn't declare that "minimal" on many stocks that are of concern...

 

[Whitebuck]

Stormtrooper is 100% correct.
Open it or close it. The mortality that is happening with these C and R fisheries does nothing for conservation. How many boats are actually popping them off in the water with a gaff....5%?

But with the mentality of most of the anglers that fish can be out of the water for minutes at a time with major scale loss and still be be ok is comical and a black eye to the fishing community.

I mean I just saw a video of two guys passing a fish back and forth to each other just to get hero shots and video after it was netted and brought in the boat for minutes at a time. Now do they actually think that fish survives or do they just dont care about that fish surviving.

 

[OldBlackDog]

So, you have taken the high road and stopped fishing for salmon?

I think the way I look at it instead is - are there wild stocks "of concern" present? 2nd question - will either retention and/or C&R impact those stocks? 3rd - How badly?

To blandly claim that C&R mortality is "minimal" is really disingenuous, IMHO. It depends on many factors already discussed here - but is often ~20%. I wouldn't declare that "minimal" on many stocks that are of concern...

 

[OldBlackDog]

And paid for by the tax payers of Canada.
And so what is your real point?
The cost of this is trivial. Your leader shovels more than the cost of this off the truck before his breakfast.

These are recent DFO costs for hatchery Chinook:
Cost/adult produced:
$33.33 Omega Yearling (S1s)
$3.33 All yearling
$1.14 Subyearling

 

[agentaqua]

So, you have taken the high road and stopped fishing for salmon?

For "at risk" species - I sure have, OBD. What about you?

 

[Dave]

Speaking of “at risk”, are you watching the numbers at Big Bar?
This will impact Chinook fishing for decades.

 

[agentaqua]

5.2s especially

 

[SpringVelocity]

I think the way I look at it instead is - are there wild stocks "of concern" present? 2nd question - will either retention and/or C&R impact those stocks? 3rd - How badly?


To blandly claim that C&R mortality is "minimal" is really disingenuous, IMHO. It depends on many factors already discussed here - but is often ~20%. I wouldn't declare that "minimal" on many stocks that are of concern...

I have seen statement before. It is very familiar.mmmm.

20 percent come on where do you get your math? Not picking on you but this catch and release fantasy mortality figure keeps going up. So if that's the case steelhead fisheries should all be closed as well as all hook and line river fisheries. There are numerous studies done on this around the world. 20 percent is big stretch.

 

[wildmanyeah]

DFO set it up for C&R, so go enjoy what you can. Be mindful of the resource. Keep them wet. Don't Net. If you must net for control purposes, keep the bag and the fish in the water. Get the hook out fast. Empty your net. Take pics and vids in the water.

It is what is. DFO has deeded the action is acceptable. Fish away. Enjoy.

No the solution will be Everyone go
Fish WCVI. Maybe won’t be this year because of covid but next year people will know just to book WCVI.

The rec fleet is highly mobile

 

[wildmanyeah]

It will just happen people are gonna go where they can keep fish.