bye-bye-barbless

[Derby]

Some interesting stuff out of the excited states of America



https://lmtribune.com/outdoors/bye-bye-barbless/article_f4e191e1-2b26-556a-b3a7-117439bb897c.html

 

[Fishmyster]

Back in the 1990's I was hired by some head DFO dude at Island West Resort. This guy was fishing with guides to prove, "you can still catch salmon on a barbless hook". It was just when they had decided to make the coast barbless. I tried explaining to him that removing the barbs only made me have to injure more fish to catch the limit. He was having no part of it. After he lost a couple I explained that the ones which fell off could be fatally wounded and now we are continuing to harm more fish to try and get his limit. He just maintained that they were probably fine. After we caught his last Chinook he said again, "See you can still catch salmon barbless hooks!". It was one of my first experiences trying to talk common sense to a bureaucrat on his mission. Couldn't wait to get him off my boat.

After that I had printed my own data sheets for the hook injury study we did on my charters. Date and time of fishing activities was documented as well as all encounters with fish. We took photos of every fish to show the extent of the injuries and probability of survival. Lots of dead released wild Coho, and juvenile Chinook. I also recorded the fish played and lost because that it was a determining factor as to when we would stop fishing. There was even pictures of fish lost to be just an eyeball on the hook when the gear was reeled in. It was easily proven that losing fish to continue fishing longer with barbless hooks caused far more fish injuries than retaining fish with barbed hooks. Nobody cared anyway.
Its hilarious to see dfo running around alberni inlet to give out barbed hook fines in an all retention fishery where there is almost no bycatch. Everything is so effed up!!

 

[The Jackel]

WHAT... we are supposed to pinch our barbs

 

[SerengetiGuide]

WHAT... we are supposed to pinch our barbs

Hahahaha. Credit. That was good.

 

[The Jackel]

Hahahaha. Credit. That was good.

..... Years ago while guiding i had 2 retired dfo and a Washington State fisheries for a charter. One of the dfo people was Wayne Saito who just so happened, was in charge of the Thompson watershed, the area that Anderson wanted to protect (coho) when he first brought in the barbless requirement. Had a great day, grilled them all charter long, end result, barbless does nothing to help the situation.

 

[Powerset]

I had similar experiences with guys in DFO up in Campbell River we were explaining that these long shank single barbless hooks were killing more fish accidentally because of how deep the hooks were getting into their mouths and into their gills that going to single barbless was going to kill far more fish that our smaller trouble hooks were at the time, rarely where we hooking fish so deeply that they couldn’t be released unharmed, but dfo knew better. Now we’re hooking 3 to 4 fish for every one landed. How that protects salmon still escapes me. It’s the same lunacy up island with our 24.5 inch minimum size limit for springs. We’re releasing a great many 20-24 inch springs every year that would be legal fish everywhere else! Again, harming 2 or 3 fish needlessly to every one landed. I understand their goal was to lessen mortality rates on salmon but when anglers tell you you’ve got this one wrong, and they tell you for 19 straight years, you’re probably wrong

 

[calmsea]

I'd be very careful with statements like this especially in times where our fishery is potentially heading for a c&r fishery only. If you convince dfo that we can't execute proper c&r procedures while on the water they will shut us down completely. There is no need to harm salmon in our fishery - have the right gear and right handling techniques. If you know your large single hooks cause fatal injuries then why do you use them? Use your heads folks or we will collectively pay the price. Face it, meat fishing for limits is at an end. Our fishery can survive on the basis of enjoying the experience and the hunt while releasing most fish. Get with the plan or find a new hobby.

 

[Fishmyster]

I'd be very careful with statements like this especially in times where our fishery is potentially heading for a c&r fishery only. If you convince dfo that we can't execute proper c&r procedures while on the water they will shut us down completely. There is no need to harm salmon in our fishery - have the right gear and right handling techniques. If you know your large single hooks cause fatal injuries then why do you use them? Use your heads folks or we will collectively pay the price. Face it, meat fishing for limits is at an end. Our fishery can survive on the basis of enjoying the experience and the hunt while releasing most fish. Get with the plan or find a new hobby.

What do you mean when you say, "meat fishing for limits is a at an end"? I personally and the people that hire my services like to harvest from the sea for fish rather than buy it from the market. Are you saying that the time has come people who like to angle for pleasure c&r should be allowed to torment fish but to harvest is a bad act?

 

[chris73]

I think what he means to say is that we will have to shift our focus in sportfishing. The main purpose will not be filling coolers and freezers for food anymore but sportfishing for the sport of tricking a fish to bite, and at the end of an action filled day take maybe one fish home for dinner. Just like fly fishing for trout has pretty much always been. Or bass fishing. I also believe that this is were we are headed and the only way we can stay on the water with fishing gear onboard. And if you believe fishing torments fish and cannot be practiced humanely then you might as well sign already the membership of PETA and other likeminded NGOs that want nothing more than sportfishing to cease to exist.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

With an attitude like that then yeah probably will happen. If we ban together and say **** that, we won’t let sportfishing go down the drain then no I disagree with you. our sector is a sustainance sector as the fish are all of Canadians to enjoy on the dinner table.

 

[fogged in]

What do you mean when you say, "meat fishing for limits is a at an end"? I personally and the people that hire my services like to harvest from the sea for fish rather than buy it from the market

It is not uncommon for groups, local and from out of town. to brag the they took home their legal limits of several or all available species while being guided on the West Coast and the value of the "meat" exceeded the cost of the charter.
This might be what calmsea was referring to?
I know several West Coast guides and to their credit they are trying to change this thinking and it is getting harder every year to produce the catches of the past.
AND they use barbless hooks when fishing for salmon and know how to release them!

 

[Jencourt]

Reading this thread , brings this to my mind. Right or wrong it is the reaction provoked by comments on here.

Pretty sure any discussion about C&R should be restricted to educating folks on good practices and preserving the ability to be able to do so. Barbless hooks make it easier to release period.

Let’s not look for more ways to complicate and limit access and opportunity. All this talk just adds fuel to the fire for those who would rather see an end to fishing.

There is a growing # of folks from the commercial sector that are making more and more noise about putting an end to C&R by rec sector.

Spend some time on some of their pages and you will see.

 

[wildmanyeah]

There is a growing # of folks from the commercial sector that are making more and more noise about putting an end to C&R by rec sector.

Not just Commercial but just about every other sector.

If we can't have C&R fisheries then DFO wont be managing it as a "non retention" they will manage it as "closed to salmon fishing". Also if you can't have C&R then mark selective fisheries make no sense. Thoes are a few of the reason why other sectors wan't C&R fisheries to stop. They also thing the mortality from C&R is way higher then DFO things and that our sector needs to be held accountable for the dead released fish.

I stopped using barbed hooks in lake fishing for trout for a few reasons. 1. I don't like to eat trout 2. Its a pain in the butt to remove a barbed hook thats stuck in the net. 3. There were time that I had to keep them because the barbed hooks would rip things like Maxillary right off the fish.

If we went to a catch and kill fishery where you are obligated to catch and kill the fish you catch not matter what size I can see allowing barbed hooks Or in terminal fisheries where the goal is to catch and kill and the chance of intercepting another type of salmon or fish is minimal.

But But Wildmanyeah the science says in that article that loosing multiple fish may cause more harm then using barbed hooks. Looks to me like they are talking about catch and kill terminal fisheries, where the chance of catching an undersized or the wrong species that you cant retain is minimal.

 

[Powerset]

It’s not overly difficult to release fish that have been trolled on spoins plugs or hoochies, where I fish that’s not an option. No downrigger, no flashers, no bait, single barbless only. So you jig. Deep deep hookups are common place. Fish mortality is inevitable but my point was that over a 20 year period we’ve noticed that single barbless hooks aren’t the harmless little angels they were intended to be.

 

[Fishmyster]

I like the idea they are proposing in Washington state where barbless would be a choice. For those fishing in an area where retention is allowed it would harm less fish to just hook, land and keep your first fish and quit fishing sooner rather than loose two or three first before you catch the fish you want for dinner. If there is allocation for retention barbed hook lessen the incidental damage.

Only in theory does barbless hooks do less damage in a day of fishing. Barbed hooks may stick into fish better making individual fish harder to release but that also keeps you hook out of the water longer making the result at the days end being less injured fish. Barbed hooks shorten fishing time by getting caught in nets, cloths and sometimes fingers which all keep the hook out of the water.

How about C&R all you want until you catch a fish that is fatally wounded, then you retain that or those fish regardless of size and stop fishing for the day.

 

[Fishmyster]

I think what he means to say is that we will have to shift our focus in sportfishing. The main purpose will not be filling coolers and freezers for food anymore but sportfishing for the sport of tricking a fish to bite, and at the end of an action filled day take maybe one fish home for dinner. Just like fly fishing for trout has pretty much always been. Or bass fishing. I also believe that this is were we are headed and the only way we can stay on the water with fishing gear onboard. And if you believe fishing torments fish and cannot be practiced humanely then you might as well sign already the membership of PETA and other likeminded NGOs that want nothing more than sportfishing to cease to exist.

If you think fishing should be about the experience and not sustenance because we can just go to the grocery store for food you are already signed on with engo's or likeminded groups.

 

[Bamfield Fishing]

If you think fishing should be about the experience and not sustenance because we can just go to the grocery store for food you are already signed on with engo's or likeminded groups.

I have sportfished for 50 years and it has always been about the experience, not sustenance. Its called Sport fishing for a reason. Sport is about the experience. I've never killed a steelhead, yet spent countless hours pursuing them knowing I would put them back. The reason to preserve sportfishing for this and future generations is to preserve the experience, and the ability to take home a fish or two is an enhancement to that experience, but not the raison d'être for participating in it. Its kind of lazy to just blanket accuse anyone with an even slightly opposing view as "already signed on with the ENGO's" . The moment our argument is that sportfishing is about sustenance we are easy targets for cuts, greedy middle aged men with expensive toys just wanting to kill as many fish as we can. Having reasonable, sustainable limits that contribute to making the sport fishing experience enjoyable is why we are fighting for access, not to fill freezers.

 

[calmsea]

Fishmyster, the way you desire our future sport fishery it goes like this: assume regs are 1 salmon any species per day, 6 salmon total per year: Charter with 4 guests leaves the dock at 6 am, early Aug, pink year. Lines down at 6:30, 4 pinks in the boat by 7:15 am, done, maxed out, guests arrive back at dock at 7:45 am. Well that was a fun day! What do you charge for that as a guide? Full day fare? Can't sell another charter that day on such short notice. Hm. The local angler catches a couple winter springs in February, another couple keeper in April, then the first wave of pinks comes through in early July and voila, he is done for the entire year salmon fishing because he had to bonk the first 6 keepers. Great fishing season! That's how sportfishing would look like according to your principles. Come on, give your head a shake! It will be in all our interest to hone in on c&r techniques and learn to live with it, enjoy it and maintain a fishing business with it. If you can't wrap your head around it then you better make alternative plans, boy, because we will be at this junction very soon.

 

[Powerset]

It’s a more complicated argument than people may realize. Jigging versus trolling, bait versus no bait. Where I fish quite a bit, there’s no downriggers allowed, it’s a jig fishery, period. There’s also a deep water fishery up island as well. There is a very active deep water salmon jigging fishery up island, always has been. Many anglers I fish with or know personally will not or cannot use riggers. When I troll, hookups in the corner of the mouth are common, but jig fishing that’s far less common. Back 25 years ago we could keep smaller fish and use treble barbless hooks. I know the intent dfo had when they went to single barbless hooks. I’m whole heartedly in favour of saving fish and lessening the impact of being hooked and then released. My earlier point was over the past 20 years of seeing the damage single barbless hooks can do, catch and kill fishing makes more sense in some instances when using these hooks! They are doing tremendous damage on fish that either have to be let go or are getting off after lengthy fights. If you’re almost exclusively a troll fishermen in shallower water I’m not sure you can fully appreciate how difficult it can be to release a fish coming from depth. The other point is even in shallow jig fishing I’ve noticed big springs mortally hooked and only being caught in 30 feet of water and only being on the line for 10 seconds. I know because I’ve watched these fish hit, come straight to the surface and head shake the hell out of you, bleeding terribly from a deep deep hook up. These fish are terminally injured. In my experience, these deep hookups are far more prevalent using the big singles. Yet, because they’re single barbless, these badly injured powerful salmon still fight hard enough to tear the hook out. That’s fishing!!!

 

[chris73]

I jigged up a few salmon over the years and cannot confirm that deep hooking has been an issue with this method. Maybe refine the choice of hooks you are using. But in the big scheme of our salmon fishery I would assume that the by far dominating salmon fishing method would be trolling and jigging is a tiny niche method.