Discussion in 'Freshwater Fishing Forum' started by Derby, Oct 6, 2016.
Some interesting reading:
Yes a good read.. Thx for posting that. Noel Money must be so pissed off at whats become of the Stamp. Such a Shame !!
yup..never thought I would see Mr. Hooton say that hatchery steelhead in certain situation should be used as a tool in the tool boxes...
That is hilarious! Does he drink??
To quote Thumpers mommy... "If you cant say something nice.. dont say nothing at all ! " So I will be nice and not say what I think about his switcher-roo on hatchery steelies
Ok I'm gonna say it. Can't help myself!
For a guy that is supposed to schooled in biology he doesn't mention any of the ecological changes that all of our waterways have been going thru. There is no mention of the changes in algae species, loss of invertebrate populations or low alkalinity events that have been happening since the late 80'! Nor is there mention of the extreme low rain ph during the 90'! Anyone who thinks all this fish molesting from guides with gear or pummbled fishing holes is influencing the populations is totally daft to the real factors at play. I'm reading more of discontent for other fishers than concern for the truth of numbers.
It's too bad he isn't into stream ecololgy. All that energy channeled into studying the changes in stream chemistry might come up with something good for all of us!
And I love his hero shot. Great pic!!
What, guiding is a problem on the Stamp? Who knew.
Kenny said it right.
Most anglers care about discontent towards other anglers than the health of the fish!
Perfect example is the Thompson...
Island has been crashing for years, low insect life and clear cutting of the watersheds is out of hand.
The Gold probably didn't even get enough brood last winter not too mention dozens of other flows!
Yep, just like science proving religion bunk, science proves over guiding c&r fishing bunk! No more fish get harmed if additional anglers fish a stream. The fish encounters just get distributed more amongst the anglers a bit. That seems to be a problem for the people who cant stand to see others having more fun with their favorite fish than themselves. These people are commonly "guide haters" even though some are guides themselves. Weird I know but the facts are out there.
There also is all the factual science out there proving that rain chemistry has been the real factor in dictating our streams productivity. It's all there for the people who care to know the truth.
I've actually been looking for a real biologist to talk to about all this science I am finding. Does anybody know one! Maybe "onefish", you know one?
When your "living" depends on maintaining the status quo people will say anything to maintain the status quo.
It must be the rain, the insects, fish farms, global warming, those damn fly fishers, bankies, logging, seals, etc etc etc.
Guiding and the pressure it puts on vastly reduced stocks certainly can't be any part of the problem, can it?
Most anglers I know just want to go out fishing and have an enjoyable experience.
I don't know any that head out the door and say, who can I pick a fight with today, guide, other gear type, or otherwise.
I was referring in regards to the Thompson, certain communities would rather bitch about each other rather than come together and provide or work towards a solution before these fish disappear.
Guiding is not a problem with the flows on the island, if you think that guiding is the reason why numbers keep dropping everywhere then I suggest actually putting time on the flows more and stepping away from the keyboard....
Just like when ones passion is to be a fly fishing promoter for the bcfff than it would be easy for that person justify turning their back on science even though they have been hired from govt in the interest of our fisheries!
All kidding aside. I am much more than a desperate guide trying to keep my ability to rape the resource via c&r for profit. I am a limnology researcher now. I have been researching historic rain chemistry, stream alkalinity along with present day rain and stream chemistry values. The extreme changes in our stream productivity over time is not from fish farms, global warming, flyfishers, bait chucking guides or seals. It is from acidic rain damaging heterotrophic bacteria in our soils which leads to lack of nutrient and ammonia issues. There are many other issues caused from the low rain ph, another one being the precipitating and dissolving of elements. Combining effects have resulted in a kill off or the stream food webs and general poor fish health. I have watched the local streams that were filled with insects in the 70's-80's go vacant thru the 90's-20's. This should have all been documented by MOE biologists in the past but I'm afraid that someone must have been more interested in reading fly fishing magazines and fishing in closed areas like the Salmon river than paying attention to local stream ecology. This is why the notion, from a biologist, that any catch and release fishery can be considered pressuring on a steelhead population makes me puke! It also bothers me that a group of fly guys would be more worried about sharing the waterways than the actual health of stream invertebrates that their flys imitate???
Not many noticed this yet but we are going into a very productive era for stream productivity. Since the 2014-2015 winter water chemistry has improoved. Rock snot algae, which appeared in early 90, has been dying off being replaced by both green and brown algae which was around in the late 70's. It has all repaired!! The present rain as of last night has risen to a ph of 5.6!!! This is higher than the last 20 or so years! Alkalinity levels have risen considerably along with accelerated decomposition rates! Food webs are building!!
Attached is a graph of historic rain ph from Saturna island. It's just the tip of the iceberg in data that I have found. Don't let the squiggly lines fool you. These ph levels are very serious and damaging to freshwater ecosystems.
Lastly, I am serious about looking for a real biologist who can prove my hypothesis incorrect. If anyone knows one I would be glad to match wits and material with them to try disqualify my claims. Challenge on, anybody dare???
Could the lack of nutrients and flies are due to the lack of salmon carcasses being carried up into the watershed by the bears. Might be just that simple.
This topic has been covered a few times now on a few different threads. The mortality and morbidity from capture events on a fish depend upon a number of factors including: stream/water temperature, time played (related to breaking strength of line, and angler intent and actions) and subsequent loss of energy and build up of stress by-products in the fish, where caught (mouth, gut, etc), and what gear used (barbless and size of hook, etc), whether the angler takes the fish out of the water for a selfie and for how long, and whether there is consecutive, cumulative capture events. The occasional person also doesn't recognize a release-only steelhead and bonks it. I think education is key in reducing these stressors.
There is a mortality. There has been quite a few studies (some peer-reviewed, many grey literature) that have generated different mortality estimates for different combinations of the above variables - but rates generally vary in the 3-5% range for fly gear to upwards of 20-30% for some ocean-caught salmon.
The question is not whether there is mortality - the questions are: what does that mean? How does it compare to other sources of mortality? Is it excessive?
wrt changes in inverts - it isn't just nutrients that determine species quantities/biomass, associations, and response. Hydrologic changes, bioturbidation, forestry and riparian effects, stability and size of substrate - all have large effects too.
If these were the most contributing factors than streams like Megin river, Moyeaha river and Anuhatti river which have not been logged would still have pristine runs of fish which they do not. In fact they are suffering way more than some of the heavily logged areas like Devereaux creek which has been logged for many years and still have excellent productivity. The link in depressed ecosystems it more to do with buffering ability via stream chemistry and acid deposition. Vancouver island has been logged for many years yet in the 70's and 80's food webs and stream productivity boomed even in the stream valleys which had been clear cut like Gold river. If you pattern the historic productivity trends with logging activity, temperature trends or excessive rain fall events there is no noticeable matches. I have patterned the region 1 productivity trends with rain chemistry and found the match! There has been a blanket kill off in productivity dating to 1993. this is when soil alkalinity was consumed by extremely acidic rain had taken its toll on the beneficial soil bacteria. Only a few streams have dodged the mass distruction of the bad rain and they have buffering abillity via alkalinity or dissolved organic carbon. MOE must have chosen to sweep this fact under the rug because it is just to complex for them to conceive!
Has anybody noticed the blanket algae changes that have happened in region 1??? Am I the only one? It is in all streams and ground water through out. Contrary to what most believe our rain chemistry is not consistent and it has commanded blanket biolodgical changes in fresh water ecosystems!
Here is a report conducted by some real scientists that has been swept under the rug! please read the conclusion. Apparently it is too large for me to upload to sfbc so here is the title and anybody who cares to learn the truth of the mater can google it themselves. "Acid rain 104165"
Another rain chemistry report. The extreme low ph values match the coastal dye off timing of stream spawning fish in 1993. Salmon, steelhead and eulachon populations crash in 1993- while herring populations do not follow the same pattern. I will attach the supporting data later.
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