BC Wild Salmon Strategy Community Meeting - Langford

Englishman

Well-Known Member
Came across this today. Does not seem to have been well advertised. This meeting is next week (Jan 10th), but presumably there will be meetings in other communities in the coming weeks.

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So who's going? I plan to be there. Great chance to hear and give feedback to local and provincial politicians (e.g. Horgan and others will be there). Hopefully lots of reps from the rec sector will be there to make sure our side of the story is clearly spoken to and understood!
 
I was very happy with the meeting. A lot of the same themes were expressed by the speakers. Including the Fish Farm issue which I believe the panel cannot ignore.
Crossing my fingers that this process will make a difference sooner than later.
 
Consultation – Mission Accomplished!
The report depicted below has been the subject of a fair amount of discussion among those of us interested in the future of wild salmon. Last night was the final opportunity to attend one of the few face to face interactions with some of the panel members that prepared it. I attended, mostly because I was curious to know just what the meeting format would be and how the public interaction would be handled. I also fantasized it might be useful to raise the steelhead flag and see if anyone saluted. I had already done that in writing but with little confidence it would ever receive consideration. The same message delivered in person might be harder to ignore.

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It was difficult to estimate attendance because the room was more or less v-shape and I couldn’t see how many people were seated behind, towards the ends from where I was. A figure of around 200 seems reasonable though. The energy and enthusiasm of the attendees was impressive. Passionate is a worthy descriptor. Half of the 14 member Advisory Council, including both co-chairs, were seated at the front of the room. Premier Horgan sat in the front row of the audience for most of the session.

The procedural agenda was unannounced until the meeting commenced. What unfolded was a clear set of instructions from the meeting facilitator. There was the welcome and acknowledgement of the First Nation on whose traditional territory the session was being held. That was followed by panel members introducing themselves and then a brief address by the Premier. By the time all that was done, 35 of the 120 allotted minutes were consumed. The facilitator then advised that about 25 people who signed at the door indicating a wish to make comment. She instructed that left about 4 ½ minutes per speaker (my calculator says closer to 3 ½) and that she intended to have a stopwatch and a hook ready. There was no opportunity to question or comment on anything anyone said.

Closing in on the 2-hr mark, all the originally registered speakers had done their thing. That left a few minutes for a half dozen more audience members to provide comment. The clock struck 8:00 and the meeting was adjourned.

Here’s the main messages I heard:

  1. Pinnipeds are the major problem but DFO is a serious contender for top spot. Fish farms are not far behind. Handing over management of BC origin salmon to the province is a strongly supported idea. (I doubt that proponents understand how that would look under the present provincial government structure whereby the Ministry of Agriculture reigns supreme.)
  2. Southern resident orcas are starving but no one admitted that might have something to do with chinook harvest by anglers. Focus on those pinnipeds and marine traffic noise. Throw in the whale watchers as a force of evil while you’re at it.
  3. Hatcheries (not necessarily mega DFO style facilities) are the panacea. The hatchery card was played more frequently than any other. How that squares with the title of the report (Options for a Made-In-BC Wild Salmon Strategy) just never entered the consciousness of anyone who spoke. The jaw dropper for me was the use of the following figure by one of the more prominent self anointed salmon saviours who claimed to know the real solution to our collective fish shortage problems.
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Here’s where the process flaws really showed up. That figure was used entirely out of context by the speaker. It appeared in the WSAC discussion paper as well, in slightly more appropriate context, but that obviously escaped the speaker. My sense was the hatchery friendly audience hadn’t read the WSAC strategy paper or, if it did, the context of this figure escaped them. They applauded the speaker’s comments vigorously.

The mischief is that figure originated in a report by the North Pacific Anadromous Fisheries Commission. I first saw it in January, 2017 and referenced it on this blog on Feb 1, 2017. The scientists that authored the report in which the figure appeared used it to emphasize the urgency of recognizing the ocean rearing habitat limitations. Evidence of the problem surrounds us, especially for chinook – lower numbers, declining age, declining size at a given age, reduced fecundity. Instead of commenting appropriately on the figure, the speaker chose to present it as evidence Canada was far behind those successful Alaskans, Russians and Japanese and needed to catch up by augmenting hatchery output dramatically. Here’s the original figure again:

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So much for injecting any reality into the perceptions of the meeting attendees.

Continuing,

  1. We can fix a lot of the broken habitat, although protecting it should also be top of mind. No one seemed to appreciate the limitations of restoring habitat on a scale large enough to measurably improve the abundance of preferred species like chinook and coho.
  2. Stop fishing herring. Strong support here as well and not all from fish/fishing consumers.
Steelhead were mentioned exactly once. That came when I took the stand for my 3 ½ minutes and reminded the advisory Council members that the genesis of their mission was the speech given by Green MLA Adam Olsen (who wasn’t in attendance last night) in the legislature on Feb 19, 2018. Olsen addressed Minister Donaldson with specific questions around the status of Thompson and Chilcotin steelhead. Their exchange was documented here on Feb 20, 2018. Here it is again:

http://steelheadvoices.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/video-steelhead-going-extinct.html

Four months later, MLA Olsen stood silent beside Premier Horgan at the podium when the announcement of the WSAC formation and objective was made. The word steelhead was never uttered, nor did we ever see or hear any further mention of steelhead from MLA Olsen or anyone else. I finished my steelhead minute by asking Premier Horgan, sitting directly in front of me, “what happened?” With the agenda organized as referenced above, there was no response. I also tried to suggest to all present that the single most influential item us people can control is our own harvest. That remark was made in the context of all wild salmon, not specific to steelhead. Lastly, I tried to remind the council there were many people directly affected by the output of this council who were never given the opportunity to comment, other than in writing. Terrace, Smithers, Chilliwack……..

At the conclusion of the meeting I approached one of the Council members with the question of what drives people to believe there is a fish culture solution to current salmon circumstances and why has the emphasis on “wild salmon” been allowed to fade from view? I also raised the issue of a complete lack of steelhead profile. That evolved into a discussion about the Thompson and Chilcotin which eventually became an exchange over the efficacy of hatchery intervention. The suggestion was made that the Pacific Salmon Foundation could be pivotal in seeking resources and expertise for a hatchery “fix”. I countered that it made no sense to follow that route unless and until gill nets were out of the Fraser River. If the patient is suffering from life threatening blood loss, why would you hook him/her up to a continuous blood transfusion until you at least stopped the bleeding? I forgot to bring it up at the time but, on the drive home, I recalled the ongoing hatchery facilitated efforts to recover Sakinaw and Cultus sockeye. It would be highly instructive to see the ledger on those programs as a barometer of what to expect by subjecting the last 150 Thompson steelhead to anything similar. (Both those sockeye stocks must be worth many thousands of dollars per returning fish. Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I think Sakinaw has been down to zero at least once.)

The consultation process on the council report is over. Good luck Thompson and Chilcotin and please forgive us Nahatlatch, Stein, Bridge and Seton.

Bob Hooton
 
I wasn't at the meeting but Hooton points out an obvious contradiction in the Wild Salmon Strategy that also hit me as soon as I read it for the first time.
 
I think most people now rightfully see two kinds of salmon: wild salmon as salmon that live free in the ocean and farmed salmon. So with that salmon hatched in an incubator and released into the wild are still wild salmon. Face it, without that the majority of BCs rivers would have no salmon left. That's the reality and whoever is still dreaming to see the day when hatcheries can be folded and the wild-hatched salmon come back to all streams like 200 years ago might as well hold out for Elvis to appear again!

Bob H's call to stop all fishing and all will be good is shortsighted and ill informed. There are certain fisheries that need curtailing for sure but to stop all fishing will not only not bring back the salmon to former glory but salmon would also lose their economic value and in a capitalist world this means losing any justification for existence.

And his alarm about no mentioning of steelhead, aren't steelhead now officially recognized as salmon like there are 6 pacific salmon? That's what my kids learn in school now.
 
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I think most people now rightfully see two kinds of salmon: wild salmon as salmon that live free in the ocean and farmed salmon..
So despite all the science showing the differences between hatchery and wild fish, there is no longer a difference because it's more convenient? Sorry, genetic regression is real.
 
I think most people now rightfully see two kinds of salmon: wild salmon as salmon that live free in the ocean and farmed salmon. So with that salmon hatched in an incubator and released into the wild are still wild salmon. Face it, without that the majority of BCs rivers would have no salmon left. That's the reality and whoever is still dreaming to see the day when hatcheries can be folded and the wild-hatched salmon come back to all streams like 200 years ago might as well hold out for Elvis to appear again!

Bob H's call to stop all fishing and all will be good is shortsighted and ill informed. There are certain fisheries that need curtailing for sure but to stop all fishing will not only not bring back the salmon to former glory but salmon would also lose their economic value and in a capitalist world this means losing any justification for existence.

And his alarm about no mentioning of steelhead, aren't steelhead now officially recognized as salmon like there are 6 pacific salmon? That's what my kids learn in school now.

I could buy this if I hadn't spent the last 5 years reading posts from sports fishermen that call hatchery fish abominations that need to be killed. That are put in the ocean for the sole purpose to create fisheries and they should be harvested so they dont interbreed with wild fish.

Now I'm hearing that hatcheries should be used as rebuilding tools, It's certainly a big shift from the sports fishing community
 
https://thenarwhal.ca/will-b-c-s-wild-salmon-strategy-be-a-boon-or-bust/

Will B.C.’s wild salmon strategy be a boon or bust?

The expansion of hatchery production
A recurring theme in the strategy paper is the imperative to expand the production of B.C. salmon from hatcheries, including Alaska-styled coastal salmon ranching. (In the latter, salmon are raised in pens and released by private interests, which then recoup their investment by getting the first stab at fishing when the fish return.)

In a written response to the council, Simon Fraser University salmon biologist Jon Moore sought to correct the council’s “serious scientific inaccuracies” in the report. This includes the assertion that “research is inadequate” to address the potential impacts of hatcheries, including the interactions of wild and enhanced fish in the ocean.

“The science is clear,” Moore wrote to the council, “hatcheries have repeatedly [been] shown to seriously harm wild populations both at broad and local scales.”

In an interview with The Narwhal, Moore said expanding hatcheries can overstep the carrying capacity of the ocean.

“The science is increasingly strong showing that the ocean is at capacity when it comes to salmon, and that adding more hatchery fish has really negative effects on wild stocks.”

This said, hatcheries have a future role to play in B.C., Moore said — as a last resort to keep endangered runs from going extinct, and in cases where habitat has been devastated, like on the Capilano River in North Vancouver, where hatcheries now provide fish for First Nations and sport in the wake of dam construction.

“Our point is not to shut down all hatcheries, it’s just that caution is needed when thinking about ramping up [production], if the goal is to conserve wild salmon.”

Machin echoes this point. “It’s a very complex interaction between wild and enhanced [salmon] populations, and that’s something that we’d really caution the province about, to take a little bit more time to reflect on that.”
 
I think the reference to salmon ranching means net pen releases, much like what is happening in Sooke and what used to happen in Esquimalt harbour.
 
In an interview with The Narwhal, Moore said expanding hatcheries can overstep the carrying capacity of the ocean.

“The science is increasingly strong showing that the ocean is at capacity when it comes to salmon, and that adding more hatchery fish has really negative effects on wild stocks.”
WTF??? the ocean is at carrying capacity? I know of old timers now dead, that talked of the noise returning salmon would make in Cowichan Bay, You hear stories that the rivers were so thick you could walk across them. If there is a problem with carrying capacity, it is our fault. and we should try to fix it. Not give some BS reply to why hatcheries are the problem
 
As this is the first time in history science is actually doing real science in the open ocean . One could say that this shows science is far from clear.

It’s the old we think thing, hopefully soon we will have some facts to deal with.


https://thenarwhal.ca/will-b-c-s-wild-salmon-strategy-be-a-boon-or-bust/

Will B.C.’s wild salmon strategy be a boon or bust?

The expansion of hatchery production
A recurring theme in the strategy paper is the imperative to expand the production of B.C. salmon from hatcheries, including Alaska-styled coastal salmon ranching. (In the latter, salmon are raised in pens and released by private interests, which then recoup their investment by getting the first stab at fishing when the fish return.)

In a written response to the council, Simon Fraser University salmon biologist Jon Moore sought to correct the council’s “serious scientific inaccuracies” in the report. This includes the assertion that “research is inadequate” to address the potential impacts of hatcheries, including the interactions of wild and enhanced fish in the ocean.

“The science is clear,” Moore wrote to the council, “hatcheries have repeatedly [been] shown to seriously harm wild populations both at broad and local scales.”

In an interview with The Narwhal, Moore said expanding hatcheries can overstep the carrying capacity of the ocean.

“The science is increasingly strong showing that the ocean is at capacity when it comes to salmon, and that adding more hatchery fish has really negative effects on wild stocks.”

This said, hatcheries have a future role to play in B.C., Moore said — as a last resort to keep endangered runs from going extinct, and in cases where habitat has been devastated, like on the Capilano River in North Vancouver, where hatcheries now provide fish for First Nations and sport in the wake of dam construction.

“Our point is not to shut down all hatcheries, it’s just that caution is needed when thinking about ramping up [production], if the goal is to conserve wild salmon.”

Machin echoes this point. “It’s a very complex interaction between wild and enhanced [salmon] populations, and that’s something that we’d really caution the province about, to take a little bit more time to reflect on that.”
 
If you look at all the Hatchery data going back 4 decades I am always left with a couple questions. First question is are we getting a good ROI, return on Investment. I’m sure we’re getting some, not sure how much, and here’s why! If you look at all the Hatchery information I’m left thinking that our billions of dollars spent on Hatchery programs worldwide has simply turned our Hatcheries into PUT & Take subsidizers for wealthy commercial enterprises. Billions and Billions and Billions of dollars in profits being made on Hatchery fish every year. Let that sink in for a second, we’re fighting for table scraps every year yet a handful of gazillionaires are getting richer and richer off Hatchery Salmon. I don’t know how we stop that from happening but I don’t believe we can win this extinction fight we’re locked in using the current model. Tax payer funded hatcheries are producing millions and millions of fish for people that really don’t need the money. That’s a broken model folks, it’s been broken from the beginning. I’m not sure tax payers who look at it this way could come to any different conclusions ?
 
If you look at all the Hatchery data going back 4 decades I am always left with a couple questions. First question is are we getting a good ROI, return on Investment. I’m sure we’re getting some, not sure how much, and here’s why! If you look at all the Hatchery information I’m left thinking that our billions of dollars spent on Hatchery programs worldwide has simply turned our Hatcheries into PUT & Take subsidizers for wealthy commercial enterprises. Billions and Billions and Billions of dollars in profits being made on Hatchery fish every year. Let that sink in for a second, we’re fighting for table scraps every year yet a handful of gazillionaires are getting richer and richer off Hatchery Salmon. I don’t know how we stop that from happening but I don’t believe we can win this extinction fight we’re locked in using the current model. Tax payer funded hatcheries are producing millions and millions of fish for people that really don’t need the money. That’s a broken model folks, it’s been broken from the beginning. I’m not sure tax payers who look at it this way could come to any different conclusions ?

Who is making "billions and billions" off of BC hatchery fish? Most hatchery production is Chinook and coho salmon in BC. The commercial fisheries on these species are minimal. There is no troll fishery in the Salish Sea, WCVI trollers get a miniscule season to fish, I doubt most of them even cover boat expenses. Hatcheries have become very unproductive, survival rates have plummeted, and the hatcheries are very expensive to operate. Most Chinook harvesting is by the sport sector, and while it supports a significant sport fishing industry, I don't think the vast majority of individual guides or small lodge owners are making excessive profits, certainly not 'billions and billions".
 
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