Armstrong Pod /bracket
- Thread starter DE18
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Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
I bought a pre-owned 24 foot Skagit Orca with an Armstrong Bracket. The initial design was very bad: it was basically an aluminum shelf bolted to the transom with a Suzuki DF300 on it. The bracket provided minimal floatation and the performance was marginal. At WOT it looked like I was dragging a dead cow behind the boat....engine cowl was always soaked, big roiling unpredictable wake. I knew there'd been a major design error....I brought it to a guy who outfits larger guide boats. He took one look at the bracket and shook his head in disbelief....short story, I had a metal fab guy weld a second pod, the bottom of which extended all the way to the keel of the boat. It was the best $2K I ever put in that boat....instant performance upgrade....silk-smooth wake, boat now planes at 3,400 RPM. It's all about stern floatation and giving the blades of the prop clean unturbulent water to bite on....you can see the weld bead of the second pod in the attached picture..good luck
High Time
Crew Member
Hello Sharphooks, Sorry for hi-jacking the thread but thanks for your input to my earlier thread about re powering a 27 Skagit Orca. I believe Armstrong now makes a pod that continues the bottom of the hull as you describe. As I am a green rookie when it comes to these Skagit Orcas, can you give me an idea of what sort of performance I might get with a single Suziki DF350 and a proper pod? Basically cruise,WOT, and fuel consumption.With the Vancouver Boat Show coming up I might find an offer I can't refuse... Thanks
ReelSlim
Crew Member
As Sharphooks has stated a full length pod that extends the actual keel of the boat is a completely different animal. If Armstrong makes one now that is good but you also have to keep in mind if it's just a generic one size fits all type. There are some consideration that need to be taken when podding in general and should be purpose built. The displacement of single power or twin and weights of the configuration you are installing. Otherwise IMO it can lead to results that you may not be happy with. It doesn't take much to be dragging in the stern as was mentioned or even a bow down situation with too much lift in the stern.
beemer
Well-Known Member
I believe the term "armstrong pod" is a generic term for a pod that provides flotation as well. Armstrong first developed the pod for the inflatable market in the early 90s for Zodiac. As ReelSlim says you need to have a pod properly built and measured for your individual boat.
Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
P
I was talking to the builders of Skagit Orca a few months ago---I was ready to pull the trigger on a 2019 Skagit Orca 27 footer. My intention was to power with a Suzuki DF350. The Skagit Orca guys said that would be a perfect single outboard for that size boat. Most guys power that boat with doubles but I've been a single outboard guy for my last three boats and I'm not going to change that approach to boating now. I never pulled the trigger on the 27 footer or the DF350 because I couldn't get asking price for my 24 footer ------ I stepped away from the new-boat table and thus, have no experience with DF350 performance
But.....As far as fuel consumption goes--the DF350 has been around for awhile now---my recommendation would be to do some Google searches and try and find fuel-burn results from a similar sized/similar weight boat as a 27 foot Orca. I recommend The Hull Truth--- lots of DF350 feed-back on that site, lots of fuel burn info on that site
I'm running a DF300 on a 24 foot Orca so my results would not be pertinent, though I can confirm that the lean-burn Suzuki's have a good reputation for modest fuel burn.
FWIW, I'm thinking you'll be absolutely thrilled with a DF350 on a 27 footer---perfect match, but take tremendous care to have the boat podded properly (which I presume is part of your re-model plan).
As ReelSlim mentioned above, every boat is different and whatever pod is attached should be designed specifically for the hull config you're hanging it on. I'm a big believer in having the lower portion of the pod extend all the way to the keel though I'm aware that some boat manufacturer's don't pod all the way to the keel and still seem to get good performance.
Two reasons to have a pod run deep and meet the keel---extra floatation as has been mentioned before but just as important, nice clean laminar flow of water feeding over the flukes of the prop--- I might be misinformed but I'm thinking that water passing over the keel and then boiling up under a pod that might be sitting higher then the keel doesn't exactly promote that laminar flow
The leg length of the outboard in relation to the pod it's hung on is also important. Based on my experience with the DF300, if I was hanging a DF350 on an Orca hull, I'd go for the 30" leg, NOT the 25" leg. Suzuki's perform better when run deep....not just my experience---seems to be supported by other guys running that brand who write up their performance numbers.
And have an experienced guy doing the pod work on your Orca!!!! There is a horror story of a guy who had a $ 300,000 Cutwater sink at his dock. It was a podded boat with two big Yamahas on it----it appears there was water intrusion into the pod, then into his boat, and the bilge pump was either inoperable or couldn't keep up with the intrusion.
I believe the boat was outfitted on Vancouver Island.... I'm sure there's been lot's of finger-pointing as to who was liable for the faulty pod construction and (as reported after the accident) leaky inspection hatches in the pod. Good luck
I was talking to the builders of Skagit Orca a few months ago---I was ready to pull the trigger on a 2019 Skagit Orca 27 footer. My intention was to power with a Suzuki DF350. The Skagit Orca guys said that would be a perfect single outboard for that size boat. Most guys power that boat with doubles but I've been a single outboard guy for my last three boats and I'm not going to change that approach to boating now. I never pulled the trigger on the 27 footer or the DF350 because I couldn't get asking price for my 24 footer ------ I stepped away from the new-boat table and thus, have no experience with DF350 performance
But.....As far as fuel consumption goes--the DF350 has been around for awhile now---my recommendation would be to do some Google searches and try and find fuel-burn results from a similar sized/similar weight boat as a 27 foot Orca. I recommend The Hull Truth--- lots of DF350 feed-back on that site, lots of fuel burn info on that site
I'm running a DF300 on a 24 foot Orca so my results would not be pertinent, though I can confirm that the lean-burn Suzuki's have a good reputation for modest fuel burn.
FWIW, I'm thinking you'll be absolutely thrilled with a DF350 on a 27 footer---perfect match, but take tremendous care to have the boat podded properly (which I presume is part of your re-model plan).
As ReelSlim mentioned above, every boat is different and whatever pod is attached should be designed specifically for the hull config you're hanging it on. I'm a big believer in having the lower portion of the pod extend all the way to the keel though I'm aware that some boat manufacturer's don't pod all the way to the keel and still seem to get good performance.
Two reasons to have a pod run deep and meet the keel---extra floatation as has been mentioned before but just as important, nice clean laminar flow of water feeding over the flukes of the prop--- I might be misinformed but I'm thinking that water passing over the keel and then boiling up under a pod that might be sitting higher then the keel doesn't exactly promote that laminar flow
The leg length of the outboard in relation to the pod it's hung on is also important. Based on my experience with the DF300, if I was hanging a DF350 on an Orca hull, I'd go for the 30" leg, NOT the 25" leg. Suzuki's perform better when run deep....not just my experience---seems to be supported by other guys running that brand who write up their performance numbers.
And have an experienced guy doing the pod work on your Orca!!!! There is a horror story of a guy who had a $ 300,000 Cutwater sink at his dock. It was a podded boat with two big Yamahas on it----it appears there was water intrusion into the pod, then into his boat, and the bilge pump was either inoperable or couldn't keep up with the intrusion.
I believe the boat was outfitted on Vancouver Island.... I'm sure there's been lot's of finger-pointing as to who was liable for the faulty pod construction and (as reported after the accident) leaky inspection hatches in the pod. Good luck
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High Time
Crew Member
Sharphooks, thanks again for your input. I think you have pretty much confirmed the direction that I have been heading in. This boat has been on my bucket list for a while and I want to get it right. Don't plan on doing this again... There is an outfit locally that has done a lot of restorations and conversions on a variety of boats and is a strong supporter of Suzukis, so they will be my next stop for a serious chat. Is a 25 knot cruise a reasonable expectation with the DF 350 on a 27?
Apologies again to DE18 for leaping onto your thread...
Apologies again to DE18 for leaping onto your thread...
Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
If you're propped right that DF350 will pin your ears to the back of your head at WOT.
My 24 foot Orca with the DF300 goes way faster then I'm comfortable running because with the sharp bow-entry, you have to be on the tabs all the time or the boat gets squirrely. "Cruise" for me is approx. 3,700 - 4,000 RPM. With a 4-blade, that puts me at approx. 18 - 20 knots. At WOT (6,100) I'm in the low to mid 30 knot range when tanked down, a few knots faster when I'm down to half a tank due to weight (I carry 600 liters+ , the weight of which is like dragging around two extra big four stroke outboards on the boat)
My guess is if you have the proper sponson config and proper propeller(s), to run at 25 knots you'll be at approx. 75 - 80% of WOT as far as RPM's go (where WOT = 5,900 --6,200 RPM depending on fuel,, people, booze etc.)
And back to prop(s). I highly recommend working with someone who knows their stuff. I see too many people complaining about not hitting the proper WOT recommended by their outboard manufacturer --- always seems to turn out that some "expert" over-propped them.
Going out on a limb here---I would recommend not going over 19P on the props if you end up getting that DF350. A good guy to contact would be Ken at Prop Gods dot com to fine tune what you'll need for an approx. 2,700 kgs boat with with a 340 kg outboard hanging off the stern. Good luck and apologies to Mr. DE18 for the wandering off topic here.
My 24 foot Orca with the DF300 goes way faster then I'm comfortable running because with the sharp bow-entry, you have to be on the tabs all the time or the boat gets squirrely. "Cruise" for me is approx. 3,700 - 4,000 RPM. With a 4-blade, that puts me at approx. 18 - 20 knots. At WOT (6,100) I'm in the low to mid 30 knot range when tanked down, a few knots faster when I'm down to half a tank due to weight (I carry 600 liters+ , the weight of which is like dragging around two extra big four stroke outboards on the boat)
My guess is if you have the proper sponson config and proper propeller(s), to run at 25 knots you'll be at approx. 75 - 80% of WOT as far as RPM's go (where WOT = 5,900 --6,200 RPM depending on fuel,, people, booze etc.)
And back to prop(s). I highly recommend working with someone who knows their stuff. I see too many people complaining about not hitting the proper WOT recommended by their outboard manufacturer --- always seems to turn out that some "expert" over-propped them.
Going out on a limb here---I would recommend not going over 19P on the props if you end up getting that DF350. A good guy to contact would be Ken at Prop Gods dot com to fine tune what you'll need for an approx. 2,700 kgs boat with with a 340 kg outboard hanging off the stern. Good luck and apologies to Mr. DE18 for the wandering off topic here.
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Roy Larson
New Member
Hey i have a 27ft orca originally powered w a diesel that im just about to repower with a od and 350 zuke. Did u ever repower yours? Thoughts experiences ect. Would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
Hi Roy...welcome to the SFBC site. No, I never repowered...still running the DF300 but this coming March, Suzuki will release the new duo'propped DF300 (same gear case as the DF350) and I think i'll go that route if I repower. Guys that run the DF350 seem to be happy with them, although a few early adopters had some issues with water intrusion and overheating....i heard Suzuki addressed some of those issues. The DF350 should be a great repower option on a 27 foot Orca! Good luck
High Time
Crew Member
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Hi, very nice conversion. Can you post where you had the fiberglass work and installation done.[/url][/IMG] Hello Roy and Sharphooks. Despite DFO's best efforts last year to destroy the rec fishery,I decided in Sept to go ahead with the conversion on my 27 Orca and we are getting close to the finish line. Went with a 350 Zuke and a 20 kicker. Motor installations this past week,will attach a couple pics. Added a rear entry door and several upgrades to the original equipment. The expanded dance floor will be excellent if we have an opportunity to fish somewhere for something as DFO continues managing our salmon resource into extinction...
I am thinking of doing one myself and trying to find as much information as I can.
Regards
High Time
Crew Member
Hello Bennie, The conversion is being done by Brant Marine, located near Ladner off River Rd. They are a Suzuki dealer and have been doing rebuilds and conversions on a wide variety of boats for a number of years. A lot for the large charter outfits. Have been happy dealing with them and the quality of their work.
Thanks, appreciate information. Was your pod also fabricated by Brant Marine?
Nice, thanks for the information.
Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
Hey High Time—-your conversion looks really good! I’d be interested to see a picture of how your mod guys handled the engine box on the dance floor. Would you mind posting a picture?
Also, I noticed they didn’t carry the bracket pod down to the keel line. Was there a discussion about that in the initial design plans?
Would be curious what the mod guys say about that
Thanks!
Also, I noticed they didn’t carry the bracket pod down to the keel line. Was there a discussion about that in the initial design plans?
Would be curious what the mod guys say about that
Thanks!
Roy Larson
New Member
[/url][/IMG] Hello Roy and Sharphooks. Despite DFO's best efforts last year to destroy the rec fishery,I decided in Sept to go ahead with the conversion on my 27 Orca and we are getting close to the finish line. Went with a 350 Zuke and a 20 kicker. Motor installations this past week,will attach a couple pics. Added a rear entry door and several upgrades to the original equipment. The expanded dance floor will be excellent if we have an opportunity to fish somewhere for something as DFO continues managing our salmon resource into extinction...
[/url][/IMG][/url]
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