Apparent absence of SRKW in JDF

Discussion in 'Conservation, Fishery Politics and Management.' started by Englishman, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. Englishman

    Englishman Well-Known Member

    Thread moved from Sooke fishing reports.

    There are two reasons given for fishery closures by DFO. 1) to preserve stocks 2) to create a quiet zone so whales can hunt undisturbed. Which one are you objecting to because you are muddling the two? The fact the whales are “missing” and therefore the closure is unnecessary from the noise abatement point of view might well mean the first reason still has some validity.

    Thx Saxe Point. Roy, your first post implied the fishing closure was unnecessary because no one was fishing off Sooke and the whales were not here anyway. Of course they move around but food is the main driver of those migrations and the fact the whales are not here, despite the relatively quiet environment they now have due to low fishing pressure indicates there is not in fact enough food. The science says little 3lb coho do not cut it for a 3000lb whale!

    Roy, so the use of reasoned arguments, evidence, logic and common sense mean that one is a Liberal? Does that mean if one is of a different political persuasion then one need not use these debating techniques or is unable to do so? I expect many non-Liberals on here might not want to be tarred with that brush!!

    Although some do apparently!
  2. wildmanyeah

    wildmanyeah Crew Member

    Maybe the whales are missing because granny died a few years ago.

    Granny was the matriarch and most famous of the southern resident killer whales—an extended family of 78 whales in three pods: J, K, and L. In recent years, she was swimming in the lead of J podvirtually every time she was seen. The question of who will assume her leadership position holds more than just common interest: studies show that killer whale matriarchs play a crucial role in the cohesion and survival of their communities. Hal Whitehead, an expert in the study of whale cultures at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia said:

    ziggy likes this.
  3. wildmanyeah

    wildmanyeah Crew Member

    Also who said they were missing j pod was spotted in active pass on July 13th

    July 13
    Mon, July 13 - Active Pass - 15:40 - Js have indeed been picked up coming down Rosario. -Monika Wieland Shields, OBI
    15:22 -
    Just saw a pod of orcas North of Sucia, travelling SE. Seen from East Point so unconfirmed if Jpod. -Lucy Quayle
    12:20 -
    Deb Wilkowski called to report seeing at least 8-9 orcas (incl 3 males, little one, and tiny one) off Point Roberts for 40 minutes, some surface activity noted: spyhops, rolling. Can't confirm but remember maybe seeing one open saddle. Viewed from Lighthouse Park from 10:15-11:30. Last seen heading southbound towards the islands. [confirmed J pod]

    At 7:15 most or all of J-Pod went north through Active Pass! -Monika Wieland Shields, Orca Behavior Institute
  4. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    If you believe in supporting restrictions to stop oil tankers, and help US millionaires for US oil I guess believe what you want.
  5. Englishman

    Englishman Well-Known Member

    This is good to know Wildmanyeah. As to who said they were missing, see the post at the top of this thread and I quote "I havent heard a report at all of the SRKW last I heard they went all the way to port hardy and were coming down the inside" unquote. Just shows how things can be stirred up by false information.
  6. searun

    searun Well-Known Member

    There is no question that SRKW pattern of use of traditional forage areas has shifted in recent years. These are wild animals, and they do not follow any predictable pattern of behavior that we humans might wish to attach as a label. Nature is random, and predicting behaviour so we can attach nice labels that help us humans put nice little maps or boxes around specific sites is a nonsensical approach in most instances. There are some high use areas that have merit, but most of the sites selected thus far for designation as a Sanctuary are entirely unsuccessful in providing real and meaningful protection given the random unpredictable nature of whale use of forage areas. One thing we are learning is most actual forage (salmon kill) events take place in water deeper than 300 feet (as in 82%). Placing a sanctuary in a shallow water area is inconsistent with the emerging science. But it sure looks politically pretty to have nice colourful maps showing broad areas defined as sanctuaries. IMO the most effective protective measure is the 400m avoidance bubble strictly enforced and backed up by a robust education and awareness program. One thing people need to understand is that politics usually trump science when it comes to landing on management measures. Its all about managing competing interests, and in that arena it means compromise and in some situations avoidance of science-based decisions. I would also suggest that there is no true science in government - much of the "science advice" is steeped with subjective and value based influence....or politics. Time to reset your "expectation" compass or you will be doomed to many more disappointments.
    kingspring, sudsy, trophywife and 8 others like this.
  7. tincan

    tincan Well-Known Member

    The 'sanctuary zones', 'critical habitat', etc are a joke. I've been a part of the SRKW technical working groups and seen first hand (or tried to see) how these zones have been created over the past several years. I've also asked some very simple questions of DFO and other collaborators, such as:

    -How many times was pod J, K, L pods seen in the sanctuary zone at Pender Bluffs in 2019?
    -How many days did each pod spend in the SOG / JDF in 2019?
    -etc etc.

    Their answer to these and many other questions was almost always "we don't know". Hmm, have you thought about tracking this sort of stuff since it's what you're telling people you are basing your management decisions on? Apparently not.

    Have you asked groups like the above mentioned Orca Behavior Institute or Pacific Whale Watchers Association or even BC Ferries or local residents to help provide answers? Apparently not.

    It has been a very frustrating few years to see how decision around SRKW 'protection' and fishing mgmt measures have unfolded.

    I feel for the front line DFO staff who are doing what they can with limited resources. The cuts at DFO over the years have run a lot of good people out and now decisions are being made blindly with often terrible outcomes for people, salmon, whales, etc.
  8. High Time

    High Time Crew Member

    Tincan, I know exactly how the decision to make the Pender Island Whale Sanctuary was made. Three years ago when Suzuki and his Merry Band`threatened to take DFO to court because they weren't doing enough to protect the SRKW, they forwarded a list of demands to DFO, including a sanctuary at Pender. The political hacks here and in Ottawa jumped on it as a cheap and easy way to get the ENGOS off their backs, and appear to the uninformed public, that they were actually doing something for the whales. The last two years has confirmed that the Pender Sanctuary is a complete waste of time and that it could be easily handled by the Whale Avoidance Regulation when whales might actually be there. I hope that you keep up the pressure to get answers to the questions you have been asking. I truly appreciate your efforts of behalf of those of us that have had our local fishery destroyed.

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