A most excellent letter

Discussion in 'General Open Forum' started by The Jackel, May 15, 2019.

  1. The Jackel

    The Jackel Well-Known Member

    Kelly K.R. Ross
    February 2

    Dear Greenpeace personnel,
    I am a very concerned 41-year old Canadian family man (yes, male, I can still distinguish), born in a small village in Saskatchewan and currently residing in Medicine Hat, Alberta. I would love to assist your organization in making the world a better place. I recently read a quote from Mr. Stewart that ‘oil in Alberta is unnecessary’ and something about ‘only clean energy’ (of course I am mildly paraphrasing but it was the gist of the CTV article). Now, I can tell you that I was angered by these comments. So, as Greenpeace has all the answers, I thought who better to contact other than the fine individuals of your organization.
    Now Issue # 1 is transportation: As almost everyone in Canada is not living in the GTA, what is the cleanest form of transportation that you could recommend for my family (which includes my wife, 2 teenage daughters, and the family dog)? Public transportation across the prairies (to visit family) is almost non-existent since the closure of Greyhound and STC (Saskatchewan Transport Company). Even when the bus lines were fully operational, 10 to 14-hour bus trips to get from point ‘A’ to point ‘B’ were way too long and fares for the family were too expensive. I should also mention a normal drive time for a personal vehicle is approximately 6 hours. So, with public transportation out of the question, I need to own a vehicle. Please recommend a vehicle on the market that has no oil products in it. Maybe, if I can get personal on some level, what kinds of vehicles are most commonly owned by Greenpeace executives/employees? I only ask because as I read the news (and any other publication that posts the comments of individuals such as Keith Stewart), apparently Greenpeace has no use for oil and oil produced products, as they all pollute the earth. Climate change, you know. So, should I buy an electric car ... NO, I can’t. As a rational, reasonable thinking Canadian, I am aware that electric cars are full of ... NO, wait ... Almost COMPLETELY composed of, and manufactured with/by oil-based products. I guess electric cars are out too. Horseback? NO. Riding on horseback would get me into all kinds of trouble with the good people over at PETA and WWF. Don’t want them trying to shut me down. My best guess is that none of you folks over there own a personal vehicle. Well let me know which way to go on that one.

    Issue # 2, food: Now I’m sure that no one from the world of Greenpeace buys that grubby food produced on and from farms across Canada. Those farmers use an abundant amount of diesel to produce every scrap and morsel of food that can be found in every grocery store across this great nation. I mean seriously, how is it that all Canadians can’t understand this simple truth. Milk, bread, meat, vegetables, etc. have all come from a farmer, who I can promise you, owns a tractor. Tractors burn a lot of fuel. If you were or are unaware of this revelation, I will guarantee these facts, as I was born and raised on a Canadian farm. ALL the food consumed from the store has come from a farm somewhere. Then to top it off, those grocers have everything packaged one way or another to keep food fresh and sanitary (God knows we can’t have someone else’s germs on our food). Again, oil issues, all that packaging (to keep the food safe) is made with and by oil products. Honestly, it feels like I can’t win. So, like activists, I have a garden for all our food. However; protein (you know, meat) is a real issue. City bylaws say I’m not allowed a pig (for pork products such as bacon and such), or a cow (steaks). I can have five chickens. I guess those teenage girls I mentioned earlier are going on a diet. I am very concerned for the well-being of people living in apartments (where gardens are impossible). By the way, where do you get all your food from?

    Issue # 3, heating: This is a touchy subject. How would a man as intelligent as Keith Stewart and other lead activists heat their homes? Now I am somewhat intelligent as I only have a Grade 12 education from a small prairie high school (not big city educated), but I can’t figure this one out for two reasons. Natural gas ... I don’t think so! Pollution! That clean burning gas from the ground is still produced by Big Oil (we hate those guys). I was going to switch to coal but, carbon tax (pollution, again). Wood burning is not the way to heat our homes, it’s soon going to be illegal to cut down trees (emissions, again). Solar energy, well, that doesn’t stand a chance in Canada. Geothermal would almost be the way to go if it didn’t require drilling and glycol-based fluids. I don’t need to tell you folks the ecological effects that a glycol spill has on the environment and animals. Wind turbines would be almost effective if they weren’t so expensive to set up and not to mention the amount of poor birds that would die as a result. PETA, again, would not be pleased. So, please help, I currently have no way to heat my home that isn’t a pollution issue.

    Issue # 4, electronics: As we all hate Big Oil, we must destroy all electronic devices. No computers, phones, tablets, etc. If it has a computer chip, a plastic-coated wire, a power cord, I mean if even one component of any device/machine contains oil and/or oil by-products, it must be destroyed. Big Oil is not going to keep you and me from our dream of a better planet. No more electronics ... I can’t write this letter, businesses everywhere can’t operate, you can’t get your points across. Maybe we need oil? What do you think?

    If we (as a country) are not going to produce oil, whom/where does Mr. Stewart want us to buy it from - as I think we have established that it is currently a requirement in every Canadian household including yours? The obvious answer must be the Saudi’s, America or maybe Venezuela (all environmentally-conscious places, right ...?). Which does leave me curious, if all our oil is imported, does the carbon tax go up or down? Maybe imported oil is carbon free? The Liberal government would have Canadians believe that the carbon tax will stop global warming. You men and women are smarter than that, right? I’d like to think that as Canadians we should support Canadian oil as it is one of the most regulated oil producing countries on the planet.

    Is everyone at Greenpeace living in a time warp? Are you all individuals who are living off the land, being 100 percent self-sufficient? If you are, you wouldn’t be able to read this email. However, we both know that you have the ability to do so, which means Greenpeace is also on the Big Oil wagon. Please don’t be ashamed. Just own it. Stop preaching to the masses. When your organization and personnel are willing to walk your own talk, then I guess we’ll have something to discuss.
    Are you so blinded by tofu farting hippies that you can’t see the plain truth? Let us all be honest, organizations such as yours and the ones like it are not willing to make the hard sacrifices to accomplish any real change. Like almost every lobbyist group, you’d prefer to bitch and whine about everything until the donations stop coming in and then move on until the next money-making issue swings around. Granted; Greenpeace started with admirable beginnings, but like all good ideas, it always ends up about the money. Or am I way off base?

    I do expect a response, for if I don’t get one ... you’re going to find this letter on every news feed and publication that will print it. I will send it to Ottawa (not a threat with the current ‘leadership’, but the Conservatives might listen). I’ll post it on every social media outlet I can sign up for and people will read it. I know that the loudest voice is the one the public hears the best. By now you must understand that you can’t be the only voice for people to listen to.


    Leon W.

    As you may have guessed, there has been no response from Greenpeace, so, here we go.

    If you agree with my thoughts, please feel free to discuss, forward, share, post, etc. We can no longer sit back and let others be the only voice that the public, activists, government, etc. are listening to you. I think that with our oil built electronics, we must circulate this letter. Let's get people talking. Thanks for your help.
    Derby, ChilliSpoons, CVmike and 13 others like this.
  2. Stosh

    Stosh Well-Known Member

    Leon W
    Thank you very much for the well written letter
    Barman likes this.
  3. Rum Buddies

    Rum Buddies Well-Known Member

  4. The Jackel

    The Jackel Well-Known Member

    Well sorry we are not as smart as you off to the ignore list you go
  5. Rum Buddies

    Rum Buddies Well-Known Member

    lol - so let me get this straight... If I agree with you I'm allowed to discuss the topic. But if I disagree you'll block me. Sounds like typical Albert oil echo chamber bs.

    "if you use email, you must be for Alberta Oil" - is that what I'm hearing?
  6. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    I agree that these are not logical debating points. I cannot defend any group that contends we must give up all petroleum products and to the best of my knowledge, no credible person is saying that. However, climate change is a fact and our current rate of petroleum exploitation cannot continue if we expect our planet to be liveable. Many businesses and some governments are committed to transitioning away from intensive use of fossil fuels. The technologies are increasingly available to allow this to happen. We cannot continue with business as usual. Many folks are aware that our environment is suffering with the effects of climate change and are changing their behaviours. The changes help improve our oceans, land and air.

    I would like to hear a balanced discussion here rather than the pervasive and divisive expressions that we must have either oil or a liveable environment. We can get by with less oil but as populations increase, we need more clean air, water and soil. With intelligent discussion and appropriate actions, we should be able to use oil, where necessary and finds ways to get a healthy and sustainable environment, too .
    Saxe Point, tekrunr, Newf and 2 others like this.
  7. Pineapple Express

    Pineapple Express Active Member

    I've worked in the energy and resource extraction industries for my whole career so far. I drive a truck. I ride a 2-stroke dirtbike. I'm supportive of resource projects and "Alberta oil"...BUT, with that said...I don't agree with this "letter" or the tone it takes. I see it a something written to generate "likes" on FB or wherever by pointing out the impossibility of implementing everything the ENGOs promote and labeling ENGOs that don't "do as they say" as hypocrisy. And by doing that, giving the author and those that agree the opportunity to distance themselves from being part of the problem. We all contribute to the problem. We all need to change.

    I really struggle with how adversarial and polarizing our society is becoming. Meaningful discussion seems to be disappearing.
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  8. dradons

    dradons Member

    Great post. I am not sure why people demand perfection or 100% compliance. It is crazy. people will say that Environmentalist took a plane ride..... Hypocrite. It really is nuts.
    Saxe Point likes this.
  9. Peahead

    Peahead Well-Known Member

    Agree with PE's and dragon's post however in my experience the ENGO's have excellerated their push of agendas to an extreme now - and by that I mean no acceptance of flexability. The stance on fishing is just one example. This is likely just one example of why the adversarial approach and polarizing/lack of meaningful discussions you speak of , exists. Its a shame because it has all really changed me. I still see some good in what ENGO's do for our planet however I am very unaccepting of them now due to a their lack of flexibility with their 'save the earth' agendas. It goes both ways. I would never critsize an ENGO for flying back east on a jet but I might suggest they are a hypocrite if they chose to buy a big gas guzzling SUV in the city . In many cases they are very much lacking in the gathering of appropriate facts when driving their particular agenda as well. With their main purpose all to garner big donations to keep the big machine running and pay their leaders huge salaries. I personally have lost the respect I had and given that many people may feel the same way, that will certainly be a reason that any meaningful discussion may degrade to adversarial.
    wildmanyeah likes this.
  10. wildmanyeah

    wildmanyeah Crew Member

    Its all connected to Gerald Butts and Justin trudeau. Then add in the UN agenda and JT's love affair with the UN and it all becomes clear. People around the world have generally had enough with the ECO terrorist left and they have been booting them out of government.

    Canada is about the last government on earth that's favorable to all this. It's why JT will be punted in November. The Liberals went too far down this path and should of stay in the center that generally gets them elected.
  11. walleyes

    walleyes Crew Member

    That’s the thing the left has gone to far over board. The right is center now and the left has fallen off the cliff. There’s a reason people live in a free country it’s because they don’t want the government dictating their every move but more and more we see the left going that way, and openly going that way. People don’t like that, the media does that’s why we see so much of it, but generally speaking people don’t. Europe was for the most part very far left but we see a huge surge on right leaning parties. People there are starting to see those agendas don’t work. It’s happening here as well. People in Canada are sick and tired of being told what the UN thinks and what they want. We are a sovereign country and have every right to run our country as we see fit. The US voted in a protectionist, it’s a matter of time and Canada will do the same.
    IronNoggin and CVmike like this.
  12. GLG

    GLG Well-Known Member

    I think most Canadians know what its about.
    Saxe Point likes this.
  13. littlechucky

    littlechucky Well-Known Member

    Ok...two things:

    1) let’s adjust the income tax percentage by taking out all the personal income tax paid by employees from all government and publicly funded organizations. My guess is the percentage of total Canadian income tax has grown because the number of citizens employed by publicly funded organizations has proliferated over the past 50 years. Think healthcare.

    Here is a good read on cost inflation in government funded / subsided organizations.


    2) corporations are merely a flow through / tax collector. A business owner of a Canadian Controlled Private Corporation (“CCPC”) faces nearly identical tax as an employee on business profits....you can pay yourself as an employee or pay corporate and dividend tax and you end up in the same place - the tax code is designed to do exactly that.

    If you increase corporate tax, you are merely creating another “cost” and the business will adjust accordingly in order to achieve an acceptable level of return on their invested capital. More tax on the Corp and less investment and less hiring / job creation.

    You can’t just endlessly tax people or corporations and assume there won’t be consequences. It might work in the short term to increase government revenues but in the long term you can’t just keep taking money out of peoples / businesses pockets. Businesses stop investing or go broke and people lose their jobs.

    Capital is mobile and will move. Murray Edwards gave Canada the middle finger and left to a more tax friendly jurisdiction. How much tax would he have paid in his lifetime?
    wildmanyeah and walleyes like this.
  14. Foxsea

    Foxsea Well-Known Member

    This is so old. We have had 40 years of supply side economics and it doesn't work. Tax breaks have allowed the wealthy to stow capital in offshore havens while big businesses export good-paying jobs. We live in a consumer economy where the rich do not contribute. Tax cuts for big corporations allow CEO's to make exorbitant incomes. Any jobs created are part-time, low paid, service industry work. Big business takes advantage of government largesse while avoiding their fair share of the costs of government benefits and social programs. We created the 1%ers by transferring public resources to the elite few. We privatized profit and socialized risks. It's time tax loopholes were closed for the rich and that they paid their fair share of the costs of being a citizen in Canada. If they don't like that, they are welcome to go.
  15. GLG

    GLG Well-Known Member

    I get it.... I spent 40 years thinking the same thing as you. This is all based on what is called the Laffer curve. For others that may not know what this is, here is a link for a short explanation.

    But here is the evidence that got me thinking differently. The Kansas Experiment. (It was also tried in Louisiana with the same results.) There are many videos that explain all this and you can search Youtube to find them.


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