A "Baseball-bat" for DFO!

Little Hawk

Active Member
Howdy,

I was forwarded this copy of a letter co-written by both Dr. Hartman & Dr. McAllister. It is addressed to Min. Shea and although a bit of a read, it is arguably the greatest lambasting of the DFO's incompetence and complicity that I've ever read.

I'll await Shea's reply with baited-breath...

PLEASE TAKE A FEW MINUTES AND READ THIS. YOU WILL STAND UP AND APPLAUD THESE GUY'S!

August 31, 2009,

1217 Rose Ann Drive,

Nanaimo, B.C., V9T 3Z4

The Hon. Gail Shea,

Minister, Fisheries and Oceans,

Parliament Buildings,

Ottawa, Canada.



Dear Ms. Shea,

Re: DFO's poor record for wild salmon protection as opposed to un-restrained support for salmon farming in B.C.

This is the perspective of two of us who have a combined experience of over 85 years in biology and oceanography - most of this time with DFO. We mention this experience because we believe that it qualifies us, quite well, to comment. We are not alone in the views we hold about the following:

A) DFO - Abandoned Mandate

Historically, we recall times when DFO stood out clearly on environmental issues. These included effective input in hearings on marine oil exploration, research and management initiatives on estuarine fish habitat, research and results application in connection with coastal logging, and strong involvement in the Site C dam proposal.

As opposed to this, DFO's performance during the past 25 years or so, is lamentable. Considering Pacific salmon protection the following record is particularly disappointing:

1) 'Rolling over and playing dead' in connection with the Alcan and Nechako situation,

2) Sitting quietly by while fish-bearing streams are pre-empted for private power development in run-of-the-river projects,

3) Condoning massive gravel removal in salmon habitat in the lower Fraser River, and

4) Playing hand-maiden to the aquaculture industry.

In regard to aquaculture in coastal B.C., we are deeply concerned about the policy direction and the inadequacy of federal government science. We are concerned not only because the high profile conflict in the Broughton Archipelago area is unresolved, but because the industry apparently wishes to expand beyond where it now extensively operates.

Many knowledgeable people in universities and the public have written extensively about this issue. However, after having seen pictures of DFO's aquaculture booth at a trade show in Norway, and after hearing your comments to Damien Gillis, we feel obliged to try to help those who would protect wild salmon. We may not understand what has caused the near collapse of the Fraser River sockeye salmon run this year. However, the specter of you at a aquaculture trade show booth in Norway while the Fraser River sockeye run 'melts down', has symbolism of DFO's priority and policy that troubles us.

B) Policy Direction

The behavior of Fisheries and Oceans, Canada, (DFO) is at odds with the department's own precautionary principle. The department behaves more like an aquaculture promotion organization than a responsibly involved fisheries research and management agency.

Several years ago the Government of Canada established the "precautionary principle" in: A Framework for the Application of Precaution in Science-based Decision Making About Risk. (Date modified: 2003-07-25). In the case of the salmon aquaculture business, this policy seems to be 'far back in the shadows'.

In the salmon net-pen farming industry, particularly in areas such as the Broughton Archipelago, risks and impacts have been documented by research workers outside of DFO. In this situation they show that a "credible case that a risk of serious or irreversible harm exists" . We have copies of six refereed publications that support such concern. Notwithstanding the precautionary policy aspect and independent, published/refereed research that indicates risk, DFO supports expansion of the industry. Your department is failing in its mandate in three ways:

1) It does not meet the requirements of its own 'precautionary principle'

2) It straddles two objectives:

a) Managing and protecting wild salmon and,

b) Supporting aquaculture. By the way they are being met, these objectives are in conflict.

3) While being quick to criticize outside research, DFO's own research provides a weak and fragmentary foundation for management of aquaculture in B.C. (See "Sustainable Aquaculture Research in BC: DFO Publications Related to Fish health and Salmon Aquaculture) .

This failure is even more worrisome given that the aquaculture industry is demanding that it be allowed to move further north along the B.C. coast. If it is not allowed to 'go north' then it calls for permission to 'grow bigger' where it is. Who calls the tune here?





C) Inadequacy of DFO Science

The DFO has not carried out adequate research to permit a scientifically legitimate management role in the salmon farming industry (see "Sustainable Aquaculture Research... Publications . 2003 -2007)." above) This list may not be up to date, however, it covers the time period in, or before which, research, relevant to aquaculture impacts and policy formulation, should have been carried out.

The list of publications includes very few papers that bear directly on the impacts, or potential impacts, of Atlantic salmon net-pens culture on juvenile pink salmon in critical areas such as the Broughton Archipelago. Of 53 titles listed, only five appear to be directly, or partly, relevant to impacts on juvenile pink salmon in the Broughton Archipelago. We are aware that there is more government and non-government research, being planned or carried out now. This is desirable. However, it is unfortunate that this increased effort was not made before the industry expansion was allowed to occur. With the history of land use conflicts that lies behind us, it is most unfortunate that we still 'turn business loose', and then after the fact, try to understand impacts and clean up the problems.

If the Government of Canada, through DFO, continues to require a better assessment of connection between salmon farms impacts and wild salmon population responses in areas such as the Broughton Archipelago, they must engage in ecosystem-scale research that meets or exceeds the standards that they require of others, and that:

1) Extends over a period of time that would permit analysis of the environmental variables that are considered to confound the effects of sea lice,

2) Is enough in control of the experimental situation to permit operation and closure of net pens to provide sound experimental design, and

3) That has funding and people that are independent of political or corporate control.

D) Wild Salmon - Gift of Nature

Salmon culture may now out-produce wild fish catches if simply measured in tons. However, these 'tons' come with a spectrum of environmental costs. Furthermore there are important elements beyond such 'tonnage counting' in the salmon farming debate.

Culture of farmed fish requires energy, fish food originating in other parts of the world, and it takes space that is useful for other sectors of society. Salmon farms in some locations produce layers of rotting waste below them. We know someone very well who has worked in the salmon farming business - this individual has seen this first hand. Most of the public has not seen it. If the jobs that salmon farming creates are, in the end, offset by loss of jobs involving wild salmon fisheries, their value may be a bitter illusion.

Production of wild salmon does not require all of the 'front end' costs associated with food production, energy consumption, freshwater diversion, . etc; that occur in salmon farming. It does, however, require two things: first that we protect their environments, and second that we have the good sense to avoid over-exploiting them. There is an additional benefit to doing these things. The efforts that we make to sustain wild salmon and their habitats also help to support an array of other wildlife. This, plus the environment itself, constitute a positive legacy, beyond the fish, for future generations. Bays full of net-pen farms with material rotting on the sea floor and "Keep Out" signs do not provide such a legacy.

It is clear that wild salmon face a daunting array of man-made environmental challenges, including: other land uses, climate change, forest loss, water abstraction, and ocean condition changes that we do not understand well. This given, your government should protect them as well as possible for as long as possible. This can be done. However, it requires a more sincere concern for wild fish than is evident to date on the part of DFO. In the long term, it requires a vision on the part of elected people and senior bureaucrats that goes beyond winning 2-4 year electoral popularity contests and serving the apparently biggest "business" on the block.

In a long term ecological context, both society and governments must soon come to the realization that human populations and activities must come into some environmentally sensible balance with the limited space and resources of the land. Humanity will not get to this state of realization and behavior with growth-driven business as its moral and intellectual flagship.

The salmon farming industry and how it is managed is an important part of our future. In this regard, the public is justified in expecting better than has been given. If nothing else, we would ask that your department carry out research that is independent, and that it begin to honor, fully, its responsibility for wild salmon protection in a manner that is above politics and short-term gain.

Sincerely yours,



G. Hartman Ph.D.



C. McAllister Ph.D.
 
The reply should be interesting. Please post if it becomes available. Gotta make you sit up and pay attention when the Old Warriors who are "in the know" take their boss to task! Good on them! [^]

Nog
 
quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

Who are these guys Hawk?
I'm really surprised at you SF - that you don't immediately recognize at least 1 of the 2 names - Hartman.

Hartman is a genuine fisheries scientist pioneer. He's in the same time frame and league as Scott, Crossman, Ricker, and other prominent Canadian fisheries scientists - back when there was no DFO, but the Fisheries Research Board of Canada - and there was world-class fisheries science carried-on by our federal government.

Hartman has published (since the 1960's) many fisheries-related scientific journalled articles (often dealing with habitat and salmonids), and quite a few books, as well - incl. the "Freshwater Fishes of Canada" - a bible for those in the freshwater fisheries field.

Obviously your background in the freshwater fish end of things is unfortunately lacking if you don't immediately recognize his name.

Dr. C. McAllister is a little more obscure, but is a prominent member of the UBC Fisheries Centre, and seems to publish more on stock recruitment.

They both understand the dynamics of wild salmon, and the risk open net-cages present.
 
Agent,

I knew who they were, I was just asking Hawk to clarify it for every body who did not.

"Several years ago the Government of Canada established the "precautionary principle" in: A Framework for the Application of Precaution in Science-based Decision Making About Risk. (Date modified: 2003-07-25). In the case of the salmon aquaculture business, this policy seems to be 'far back in the shadows'."

Curiously whenever an anti group wants to have something stopped they always fall back on this piece of rhetoric. This "principle" is used as the justification for any protest, but the people who want to apply it to their protests would not apply it to their own interests. It is the most inane piece of logic I have ever come up against.

"In regard to aquaculture in coastal B.C., we are deeply concerned about the policy direction and the inadequacy of federal government science. We are concerned not only because the high profile conflict in the Broughton Archipelago area is unresolved, but because the industry apparently wishes to expand beyond where it now extensively operates. "

25 years of study is inadequate? Yet a few token years by a couple of so called scientists consitutes a body of knowledge?

Conflict?

I don't see any great expansion in the works, so what are they talking about?

I wonder how much they got paid to put their name on this bit rambling?
 
Great work sockeye! If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh#t!:D

IMG_1445.jpg
 
Got permission to post Hartman/McAllister's letter on the WSA website.
Wrote him a note of thanks:

Howdy Dr. Hartman,

Thanks so much for writing one of the best letters I've read to date concerning DFO complicity/duplicity and dereliction of duty.
As well please thank Dr. McAllister for his contribution to this work, and to the both of you for allowing us to post this on our WSA website. When our wonderful Webmaster, Karen, has time I'm sure she'll post this work on our website. (Thanks Karen!)

After a substantial period of inactivity - mostly while I recovered from the shock and pain of Campbell's re-election (via self-inflicted 'whiskey-therapy') - I think the time is right for the WSA to once again 'rise-up' and mount a serious oppositional front against both the Federal and Provincial aquaculture policy. Public awareness and getting the Yanks to stop eating net-pen fish are key.

I think an Aquaculture Summit is in order here. Maybe held in Washington, televised, and hosted by Cousteau, or De Caprio, or Shatner!
If we can let 350-million Americans' know what happens up here every time they buy a slab of this 'Enviro-Poison', maybe we can make a serious 'dent' in the Norwegian's bottom line. Without the 'fish-farming crutch', the DFO would be forced to get back to its original job of responsible Wild Salmon stewardship.

Again, thanks!


Standing for Wild Salmon,

Terry Anderson

Wild Salmon Alliance



PS. Thanks Sockeye for all your wonderful work "Stoking the Fires of Opposition" to this tragedy-in-the-works you so valiantly support!
 
quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

...I wonder how much they got paid to put their name on this bit rambling?

Now I've seen a lot of questionable postings on the various forums over time, but this one pretty much takes the cake IMHO.[B)]

Please list your credentials sockeyefry, so we can see just how well you rank up against these two - amongst the Finest scientific minds our Country has ever produced. Unless I am seriously mistaken, methinks we all understand just who is ladling out "rambling" and drivel! ;)

Cheers,
Nog
 
quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

Agent,

I knew who they were, I was just asking Hawk to clarify it for every body who did not.

...

Curiously whenever an anti group wants to have something stopped they always fall back on this piece of rhetoric. This "principle" is used as the justification for any protest, but the people who want to apply it to their protests would not apply it to their own interests. It is the most inane piece of logic I have ever come up against.

"In regard to aquaculture in coastal B.C., we are deeply concerned about the policy direction and the inadequacy of federal government science. We are concerned not only because the high profile conflict in the Broughton Archipelago area is unresolved, but because the industry apparently wishes to expand beyond where it now extensively operates. "

25 years of study is inadequate? Yet a few token years by a couple of so called scientists consitutes a body of knowledge?

...

I wonder how much they got paid to put their name on this bit rambling?
Sockeyefry, this has to be one of your saddest and lamest postings, ever - and there's been a few of these - so, it's a pretty high bar you set. It's so blatantly obvious that you are so out of your depth and lashing-out - that you either miss or ignore your own hypocrisy and immature behaviour.

First - NO, you obviously don't recognize these names due to your limited experience, since not only did you ask: "Who are these guys Hawk?" earlier - and by clearly NOT stating that you knew who they were, and then asking Hawk to clarify it for every body who did not; but more importantly - by not understanding the depths of experience that these DOCTORS have together - a combined experience of over 85 years in biology and oceanography as compared to yours (your number, please?).

Secondly, these authors are not just another "anti group" but well-respected, well-published, well-experienced fisheries DOCTORS who well understand the risks imposed to adjacent wild stocks by the open net-cage technology.

Your attempts to belittle these men (i.e. "a few token years by a couple of so called scientists and "I wonder how much they got paid to put their name on this bit rambling?") clearly demonstrates your (and by reflection your industry's) lack of depth, maturity, and experience - and maybe even your (& your industry's) fear of dissenting comments.

This is where your input and comments definitely help people see through the pro-industry rhetoric, and for that I thank you. You are in fact generating much opposition to this destructive industry.

You're not secretly working for the David Suzuki Foundation, are you?
 
<Edited for content>
 
All I know is that when DFO scientists went to a public hearing in Sayward it was suggested that they were paid by many on this forum, and this is acceptable. How come when i suggest it, it is a travesty? Can you say double standard or hypocrit?

Read the post Agent, the scientists with a few years are Morton and Krkosek. C'mon open your eyes.

Dave, That was uncalled for
 
Gee Agent, how come you didn't post this article? Why cause ya got an agenda that's why:


Pink salmon returns Campbell River, BC – September 2, 2009 
Despite dire predictions two years ago by Martin Krkosek and Alexandra Morton about the imminent collapse of salmon stocks in te Broughton Archipelago as a result of salmon farms in the area, it may now surprise many to hear that pink salmon are returning in abundant numbers to the Glendale River (a major river system in the Broughton Archipelago) this year.  So much so, that pink runs on this system were opened to commercial seine and gill net fishermen on August 31, 2009.  These high returns mirror reports last week of high pink returns on Campbell River’s Quinsam River this summer.   While both of these river systems are located in different geographic areas, they are both close to two of the highest density salmon farming areas on the BC coast.
  
Other more experienced and established researchers were more successful in their assessment of the situation. Two separate papers by distinguished researchers (Brooks and Jones, 2008 and Riddell et al., 2008) questioned Krkosek’s and Morton’s conclusions. These papers explain that following periods of high abundance, pink salmon populations typically fall to low levels and in most cases, the populations then gradually increase to begin the cycle again. Contrary to the conclusions reached by Krkošek et al. (2007), Broughton pink salmon returns have steadily increased since then with no indication that they are threatened with extinction. It does appear that the science has played this out to a conclusion on the pink salmon as we now see record returns in these to regions.
  
 
"Dave, That was uncalled for."

Not really.
I'd like to know if you are male or female.
I just asked in a colorful way.

So what is it?

Take care.
 
Sockeye: I laugh aloud at you when I read your replies at these times.

Your becoming so adept at 'Back-peddling' you could win the 'Tour de France'- in reverse!

Yours and the sickening industry you support days are numbered here on our coast.
 
Obviously you already know sockeyefry; that the best illusionists purposely and successfully mislead the audience away from the item in question - so that their attention is diverted elsewhere so that the illusionist can manipulate that item w/o being noticed.

Congratulations - you have all the abilities necessary to start your new career in stage magic, sockeyefry!!!

We accurately and successfully answer all your BS point-by-point, and instead of acknowledging any of the points made re: Hartman and McAllister's letter - you try to mislead us all by going-off on a tangent and hoping we won't notice that you know you lost this argument.

That's unfortunately also the response many human juveniles exhibit when they know they have lost an argument, but don't want to get caught. Anyone with kids can confirm this response.

Maybe it's time that people defending this destructive industry grow-up.
 
It's not about "growing-up" Agent... it's about fighting for their survival!

They, too, feel 'the END' is near.
 
Too bad all those pinks showed up in the Broughton and at Quinsam and ruined Mortons predictions of extinction.

Course the No nothing DFO scientists predicted it correctly. Maybe Moprton should apprentice under them, she might learn something.

Who's end is near?
 
Sockeye, all you ever spout out is crap. Your posts leave me shaking my head. I'd love to see you at a boat launch spouting your mouth off. I wonder how long you'd be standing?
 
Here's the 2009 Pink Salmon Stock Outlook from DFO. 2 means LOW, 3 means NEAR TARGET;

77. Area-11/13- Odd 2 / 3 2008 returns demonstrated another decline in escapements to virtually all systems monitored, a trend continuing from the 2006 low returns (a similar trend has been encountered in areas north of Johnstone Strait). Only systems in the southern portions of the area (Phillips River, Salmon River, Adam/Eve River and Amour de Cosmos, Quinsam River) demonstrated improvements over parental brood return in 2006. Odd year is typically an off-cycle year for most systems in the area. With current declining trends in the upper portion of the area the expectation for 2009 are to be low to near target abundance. Historically, the mainland inlets populations have been highly variable but expectations for 2009 are similar to what we projected in 2008.

Looks like they didn't get the pink salmon forecast right either. So, that's a good thing.
 
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