Patagonia Film: Artifishal Link

[boogieman]

Hello fellow forum members.

Here is a link to the full Patagonia Film Artifishal.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Thanks pretty awesome automatic clipper they are using in the first 2 mins. That would be great to get one of Thoes.

 

[mbowers]

Ya interesting film. One claim by the film was that 90 percent of the salmon on the West Coast come from hatcheries. I find that hard to believe but have not found data to dispute it.

Surprised they made no mention of Alaska's massive hatchery ocean ranching programs that seem to be very successful for Alaska at the expense of the rest of us.

https://seawestnews.com/alaska-hatchery-pink-salmon-imperil-wild-stocks/

“Canadian wild salmon have a long run to Alaska pastures and have to compete with a lot of hatchery fish on the way. if I was a Canadian, I’d be concerned that while everyone was worrying about farmed salmon, the ocean ranchers in Alaska were busy overloading the range to the detriment of Canadian fish.” – Craig Medred – Alaska-based journalist.

 

[wildmanyeah]

I just finished watching it and I have to say I found myself agreeing with more points in it then disagreeing with it.

Depressing for sure, kinda just want to toss my rod in the river and call it.

 

[searun]

I think for me the take away from this film is Salmon are very complex animals to understand and manage because most human activity threatens the core elements salmon require to thrive. Also, thinking that we have purely wild salmon on our coast is in many instances not a correct assumption. Many Chinook runs that we consider as "wild" are actually not so. I fish Barkley Sound extensively, and have participated for the past 5 seasons providing hundreds of DNA samples to assist with a Run Reconstruction study. Not surprisingly, 80% of my samples are hatchery origin fish, and yet very few of those were hatchery clipped. Take away the hatchery, and you take away 80% of the fish we encounter and rely upon for the fishery. Hmmmm.

Because human impacts have decimated the habitat and ecosystem requirements, it is clear to me that if we simply pursued a wild only approach, human caused sources of salmon mortality will eventually take those stocks to extirpation. Steelhead are a prime example. Doing nothing, insisting on wild management took us down an irreversible pathway. Moving ahead applying the Wild Salmon Policy here will result in Chinook stocks for example following steelhead. And the reason I suggest we will not be able to return to wild production is as humans we can't let go of the things that cause ecosystem failures....and our track record is clear, we will not invest the resources that would actually be required to bring back the ecosystem health necessary for salmon recovery.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Yeah it’s basically saying that any run that is not enhanced by a hatchery will head to extinction.

I think we see that in a lot of our mixed stock fishery.

So the question is do we save Thoes wild runs or do we farm those socks with hatcheries.

 

[searun]

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest there are no purely wild stocks that are not performing, but its hard to find many examples of that. The human caused impacts are significant, and regretfully few rivers where we actually invest in habitat enhancement before the recruitment stock drops so low in abundance that anything you try simply won't work. Possibly the Cowichan, but even there we have a small hatchery program. At least there all the habitat enhancement actually paid off because there are fish there to utilize it.

 

[Birdsnest]

The comments on the youtube page are interesting. Not sure this video is popular with Patagonia's customers. I was off Patagonia many years ago.

In the video on the hatchery issue they have a couple of examples to support their claims.

On the salmon farm front, the video makes many claims yet provides no examples of systems effected by their claims. This is typical and no one on this forum has yet to provide a specific example.

I think the video for the most part is damaging to hatchery potential and is more about virtue signalling than it is about issues facing wild salmon.

 

[fogged in]

This documentary is mind provoking to say the least.
Those who take the time to watch it will accept all, some, or none of what it covers and certainly much of it is open for debate.
As a person keenly interested in the effect Open Atlantic Net Pen Fish Farms have on our ocean and wild salmon, these are some of the points I found to be revealing.
52 minutes in..
From the Norway perspective…
We are seeing a chemical arms race in the Sea
Sea lice are killing our young wild salmon
They produce as much **** as the entire town of Oslo
Fish are escaping into the wild
We had to sneak up to the farms to take these pictures. Fish Farm full of diseased and dying fish
Solution “put these farms on dry land
57:30 minutes in
Our West Coast perspective …
59:16
Divers filming the breakup of this fish farm where 600,000 atlantics escaped were told to leave as they were trespassing.
59:32
It seems like a big secret as to what is going on under there.
The concept of an emergency respond plan is a bit humorous. It’s basically tell the Commercial Wild Salmon fishers and the recreational fishers to go out and fish cause now we have more fish for you
It’s like telling the people with the Exxon Valdez spill “free oil” go collect it.
Every single day our public trust is being undermined by the pollution these pens are putting in the water, viruses, parasites, pharmaceuticals.
The industrial model is to take as much money as you can, as quickly as you can regardless of the environmental consequences.

 

[terrin]

This documentary is mind provoking to say the least.
Those who take the time to watch it will accept all, some, or none of what it covers and certainly much of it is open for debate.
As a person keenly interested in the effect Open Atlantic Net Pen Fish Farms have on our ocean and wild salmon, these are some of the points I found to be revealing.
52 minutes in..
From the Norway perspective…
We are seeing a chemical arms race in the Sea
Sea lice are killing our young wild salmon
They produce as much **** as the entire town of Oslo
Fish are escaping into the wild
We had to sneak up to the farms to take these pictures. Fish Farm full of diseased and dying fish
Solution “put these farms on dry land
57:30 minutes in
Our West Coast perspective …
59:16
Divers filming the breakup of this fish farm where 600,000 atlantics escaped were told to leave as they were trespassing.
59:32
It seems like a big secret as to what is going on under there.
The concept of an emergency respond plan is a bit humorous. It’s basically tell the Commercial Wild Salmon fishers and the recreational fishers to go out and fish cause now we have more fish for you
It’s like telling the people with the Exxon Valdez spill “free oil” go collect it.
Every single day our public trust is being undermined by the pollution these pens are putting in the water, viruses, parasites, pharmaceuticals.
The industrial model is to take as much money as you can, as quickly as you can regardless of the environmental consequences.

Yes and when they have accomplished that they just move onto the next venture leaving behind a wasteland but since they apparently can legally get away with that whose fault is that really?

 

[Derby]

I more or less refer to chinooks as clipped or un clipped these days.. it would be interesting & hopefully we move to a 100% clipping so if I have a unclip chinook i could choose to release as it could be truly a wild fish ?...

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

Well, right there at 54:44 - no difference between a Fish Farm and a fish hatchery. Not sure it provides any solutions except shut down any human intervention (including fishing) and the wild salmon will come back. I would guess this is never going to happen...

 

[Derby]

hahaha... ya I just cannot at this point believe we will ever have the wild salmon come back to historic levels.. a whole lot of water under the bridge and a another 4 billion people on earth...

 

[tincan]

The video had a very anti-hatchery slant throughout it and failed to acknowledge the complexities that exist with salmon populations overall and with hatcheries specifically, IMO. The big US hatcheries are much different than the PIP's, CEDP's and even major hatcheries in Canada, and different than the ranching issues in AK. There is a time and a place for hatchery production of salmon. There are also times and places were it doesn't make sense and can be harmful. I don't think this vid made those distinctions but I also don't think that was their intention. It was produced well and worth a watch, however.

 

[agentaqua]

Well said, Tincan...

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

The video had a very anti-hatchery slant throughout it and failed to acknowledge the complexities that exist with salmon populations overall and with hatcheries specifically, IMO. The big US hatcheries are much different than the PIP's, CEDP's and even major hatcheries in Canada, and different than the ranching issues in AK. There is a time and a place for hatchery production of salmon. There are also times and places were it doesn't make sense and can be harmful. I don't think this vid made those distinctions but I also don't think that was their intention. It was produced well and worth a watch, however.

I think the question it really tries to raise (which I don't necessarily agree with) is that if we augment salmon runs with hatchery fish are we actually destroying the wild run? If we flooded a run with Atlantic salmon instead of the wild species and saw a decline, we would all argue that the non-native species is the cause of the decline. But, from a genetics point of view, they say a non-wild spring isn't any different - just cloaked in a different disguise. The question becomes about whether a specific genetic sub-species of salmon needs to have special care and attention. Not sure on this, but the Orca environmentalists will argue that each pod is a distinct sub species.

I think that's why they say a hatchery is no better than a FF.

 

[Rain City]

So I watched this a few months back and meant to ask the question. Does anyone disagree with their theory on the negative effects of hatcheries? I find all of this so hard to digest. With no history of fishing in my family and my experience going back to all of 2015 I'm trying to form my own opinions and it's tough. Seems like there's certain topics, like commercial herring fisheries, that guys just don't seem interested in talking about. I understand the importance of hatcheries to the industry and feel the vast majority of TV shows and guides support them unequivocally but was it propaganda that convinced them in the first place? Are we the loyal consumer's just following their lead? I'd love to just say **** it and put everything behind them but this video has got me wondering.

 

[SpringVelocity]

It is because BC hatcheries are usually a combination of hatchery and salmon enhancement work on rivers. It is very different than subsidizing and just pumping out clones without fixing the issues with habitat. nI am firm believer that hatcheries are a tool, but must be used at same time with other enhancement. This lack of understanding by groups like this one, and others really screws us in BC.

We have NGO groups with lots of free time ( many doing nothing) that just believe that rivers will just magically fix themselves. The truth is First Nations have actually been doing some practices of this for years before Europeans got here.

I think why you see many people supporting them in industry is they tend to visit these places, and talk with the staff. A lot are volunteers. The best thing you can do is to start visiting some of the ones around you to get a better understanding of the process. This video is biased and has an agenda.

 

[agentaqua]

Some people want to maintain either a black or white opinion about hatcheries. I find that unfortunate and missing many subtle nuances that we should be aware of - so that we can fine-tune the efficiency and success of hatcheries. They are but 1 tool in the tool chest - and like all tools - honed and used effectively and sparingly Along w watershed restoration where necessary - can be a good thing - as SV pointed-out.

 

[Rain City]

It is because BC hatcheries are usually a combination of hatchery and salmon enhancement work on rivers. It is very different than subsidizing and just pumping out clones without fixing the issues with habitat. nI am firm believer that hatcheries are a tool, but must be used at same time with other enhancement. This lack of understanding by groups like this one, and others really screws us in BC.

We have NGO groups with lots of free time ( many doing nothing) that just believe that rivers will just magically fix themselves. The truth is First Nations have actually been doing some practices of this for years before Europeans got here.

I think why you see many people supporting them in industry is they tend to visit these places, and talk with the staff. A lot are volunteers. The best thing you can do is to start visiting some of the ones around you to get a better understanding of the process. This video is biased and has an agenda.

Some people want to maintain either a black or white opinion about hatcheries. I find that unfortunate and missing many subtle nuances that we should be aware of - so that we can fine-tune the efficiency and success of hatcheries. They are but 1 tool in the tool chest - and like all tools - honed and used effectively and sparingly Along w watershed restoration where necessary - can be a good thing - as SV pointed-out.

Thanks guys.