Using main as a rudder?

[Ghostprof]

Hi guys,

I have a 14' Lifetimer skiff that I fish from, with a 25 hp Yamaha on as the main and a 2.5 hp Yamaha as the kicker/back up. I'm interested in hooking things up so I can steer from my front console when I'm trolling, but it seems really tricky if I have the 2.5 tipped up most of the time for travel, etc. and would be planning to tip up the 25 hp when I'm trolling to reduce drag. The up/down stuff looks like I'd have to connect and disconnect the steering rods every time I wanted to troll or travel. Is that right?

Someone suggested I might just leave the main down while using the kicker, using the kicker for thrust but steering with the main. Would that work (i.e., the main is shut off, but just a rudder)? Would it introduce a bunch of extra drag? Or should I resign myself to having to hook up the steering every time I want to change from travel to troll and back?

Thanks!

 

[RiverBoy]

leave your main down and troll from the center console with a connecting rod. only problem that i have personally is i fish where there is loads of current. sometimes you need some more gas to straighten your down rigger lines ,so you’ll have to hop back and adjust the throttle on kicker. i finally said screw it and i troll from the kicker by hand the old fashioned way.
one day i’ll break down and get some kind of remote steering or something but for works for me.

 

[tubber]

Troll with the 25 and keep the kicker tuned and ready for an emergency.
The 25 is cheap on fuel, relatively cheap to replace with something newer when the hours get really high, and it will charge your battery. Plus, the one cylinder might rattle you into a stupor.

 

[tinboatrobb]

I hame a 20hp merc 4 stroke and troll on it.

 

[Ghostprof]

Cool! Thanks -- so basically just keep the kicker as an emergency motor in case something weird happens with the main. We've trolled with the main this summer and it's been fine, actually. I might fire up the kicker from time to time just to make sure it still runs well. Thanks everyone!

 

[halimark]

Many years ago (1980s) a buddy had a 17ft canaventure. 70 as a main and 9.9 as a kicker. He would start kicker and leave centered then steer with the shut off 70 at helm and steering wheel. No connecting bars, just drag from turned 70 leg. We fished successfully that way for years, its was his norm. We mostly fished sockeye in the inlet and SOG, so no real bad current. Sort of red neck in todays latest and greatest multi helm steering boats, but we got fish.


HM

 

[Rain City]

Many years ago (1980s) a buddy had a 17ft canaventure. 70 as a main and 9.9 as a kicker. He would start kicker and leave centered then steer with the shut off 70 at helm and steering wheel. No connecting bars, just drag from turned 70 leg. We fished successfully that way for years, its was his norm. We mostly fished sockeye in the inlet and SOG, so no real bad current. Sort of red neck in todays latest and greatest multi helm steering boats, but we got fish.


HM

I did this with my bayliner 245 all the time. I would just have to shout back to the guy on the rods "give me some left!" If I was maxed out one way or the other. He'd then adjust the kicker a touch to give me more left steer. On a 180 degree turn I'd get back there and do it from the kicker. All that being said if my main could have gone slow enough I would have gladly just used that instead.

 

[Ghostprof]

I did this with my bayliner 245 all the time. I would just have to shout back to the guy on the rods "give me some left!" If I was maxed out one way or the other. He'd then adjust the kicker a touch to give me more left steer. On a 180 degree turn I'd get back there and do it from the kicker. All that being said if my main could have gone slow enough I would have gladly just used that instead.

My main goes plenty slow enough, so I'll just stick to that for trolling and keep the 2.5 for a back up. Now I can return the $100 bracket set up I got to couple the motors!
Thanks, everyone!

 

[Rockfish]

Tying the two motors together and steering from the front works extremely well, if the configuration of the boat and motors are such that the mechanical cross system can be permanently attached and operated but also easily removed if need be. Leaving the main motor down and used as a rudder works for me and may keep the center of gravity somewhat lower on a very small light boat and therefor the boat should be more stable if you were to want to troll on the kicker or use it in the event of main motor failure, but you do need both motors to turn together. If you had a main motor failure in worsening seas and were forced to rely on the kicker, personally if it were me, I would rather be at the main helm station steering the kicker with the main down but connected for the rudder effect. It is a safer place to be and likely closer to your VHF and navigation which could be useful in bad conditions. The parts you need for a very robust stainless cross bar system should cost about 70 dollars total and are easy to make or assemble. Trotac in Victoria is great for advice on this and providing components.

My boat is larger, but I have a version of this system although both motors are full remote with power lift. They both stay tied to each other all the time but can go up and down independently or together. If you plan to troll on the main, remember to run your little kicker motor frequently to keep it reliable as those little carbs can evaporate and varnish and the small passages and jets can clog up if not used.

One of my buddies has a very similar boat to yours and he keeps his small emergency motor in the bow and we were just talking about the need to run it from time to time and practice installing it at sea. At least your kicker is mounted on the back of the boat and ready for use. His concern is being stern heavy as his battery and riggers are back there as is his butt because he has no center console and tiller steers the main. Your boat is a safer set up.

To me the issue is not so much about gas mileage but safety in bad conditions.

 

[Ghostprof]

Thanks for that. My plan is to run the kicker pretty much every time I go out, even if it's just when I'm flushing the main at home. But it's good to know I could use the main as a rudder and the kicker as a thruster for trolling if I want to. I may see if I can jerry-rig some sort of steering coupling that can easily be connected and disconnected in case I want that out there.

Trotac is where I got the set up I have now, but I have not installed it yet -- it's got a threaded metal rod between two swivels, but that seems to mean that it's either connected or not, and not so easily just latched and unlatched. I may need something a bit quicker. But I don't relish paying $200+ for an EZ steer!

 

[Fish Camp]

Most likely you would rather troll on the 25 .The 2.5 might cavitate at higher trust if the prop is not below the hull .

 

[Sentinel]

Thanks for that. My plan is to run the kicker pretty much every time I go out, even if it's just when I'm flushing the main at home. But it's good to know I could use the main as a rudder and the kicker as a thruster for trolling if I want to. I may see if I can jerry-rig some sort of steering coupling that can easily be connected and disconnected in case I want that out there.

Trotac is where I got the set up I have now, but I have not installed it yet -- it's got a threaded metal rod between two swivels, but that seems to mean that it's either connected or not, and not so easily just latched and unlatched. I may need something a bit quicker. But I don't relish paying $200+ for an EZ steer!

If it is the panther threaded rod system it is made to allow main and kicker to tilt independently. The quick connect ends should be kept lubed where they thread on and not bottomed out on threads. This will allow for tilting.

 

[Rockfish]

Thanks for that. My plan is to run the kicker pretty much every time I go out, even if it's just when I'm flushing the main at home. But it's good to know I could use the main as a rudder and the kicker as a thruster for trolling if I want to. I may see if I can jerry-rig some sort of steering coupling that can easily be connected and disconnected in case I want that out there.

Trotac is where I got the set up I have now, but I have not installed it yet -- it's got a threaded metal rod between two swivels, but that seems to mean that it's either connected or not, and not so easily just latched and unlatched. I may need something a bit quicker. But I don't relish paying $200+ for an EZ steer!

That threaded tie rod system is what I have. In my set up there is no need to remove it at all except to remove the kicker for winter storage. You can get different stainless ends for the rod. On the kicker end I have the slide release type end piece and you can remove the tie rod easily in a few second if you want to tiller steer the kicker. If a remote throttle control servo system is available for your kicker or can be made out of remote control toy parts as some have done, it would be very useful at your helm station.

I have a 9.9 long shaft kicker low to the water on a pod and no issues with kicker prop cavitation. The prop stays in the water in all but the most severe nasty short interval following seas. If the sea state is like that to any degree I am most likely going to want to put the kicker up and head in on the main.

This tie rod system is superb with it's always connected ability. With my full remote kicker I can come down off plane on the main, drop the kicker and be underway on the kicker in a few seconds, all without getting out of the main pilot station seat. It is also bullet proof, very reliable and robust. The rod ends have lock nuts and can be adusted in and out to lengthen or shorten the rod within a very limited range, which is necessary to precisely align the motors.

 

[Matsutake]

Hi guys,

I have a 14' Lifetimer skiff that I fish from, with a 25 hp Yamaha on as the main and a 2.5 hp Yamaha as the kicker/back up. I'm interested in hooking things up so I can steer from my front console when I'm trolling, but it seems really tricky if I have the 2.5 tipped up most of the time for travel, etc. and would be planning to tip up the 25 hp when I'm trolling to reduce drag. The up/down stuff looks like I'd have to connect and disconnect the steering rods every time I wanted to troll or travel. Is that right?

Someone suggested I might just leave the main down while using the kicker, using the kicker for thrust but steering with the main. Would that work (i.e., the main is shut off, but just a rudder)? Would it introduce a bunch of extra drag? Or should I resign myself to having to hook up the steering every time I want to change from travel to troll and back?

Thanks!

I troll with my 25 merc and have a 2 hp Honda as emergency power. No problems at all, love the 25 for trolling.